AEW Dynamite - Grand Slam - September 22, 2021

[MoS]

I mean AEW would have absolutely won if they had put the 30 minute draw on last. TK and Mookie know this; Mookie used to analyse ratings with us fellow nerds on this board when AEW wasn't even a fantasy dream. It happened with that Shaq mixed tag too. There's clearly a reason they decided to put the match on first anyway, almost certainly because it meant less commercials and thus a better viewing experience.

The fact that they chose to sacrifice a one-off weekly ratings win - let's be honest, as soon as MNF ends, Raw is back to winning comfortably most weeks, so it would always have been a fleeting triumph - for what they thought was a better experience for their fans is a *good* thing, and is the kind of sensible, non-reactionary thinking that has brought them so close to Raw so quickly in the first place. I still think the show would have been better in any case if Danielson-Omega went on last, commercials notwithstanding, but that's not because of ratings.

[El-P]

29 minutes ago, MoS said:

The fact that they chose to sacrifice a one-off weekly ratings win - let's be honest, as soon as MNF ends, Raw is back to winning comfortably most weeks, so it would always have been a fleeting triumph - for what they thought was a better experience for their fans is a *good* thing, and is the kind of sensible, non-reactionary thinking that has brought them so close to Raw so quickly in the first place.

Good point.

RAW *should* win by a wide margin in every demo every week. They are Coca-Cola. They are Da Brand, have been for 35 years. RAW is the longest running series on TV (where's the Kappa emote when you need it ?). AEW has barely been on TV for two years.

Not that I care one way or another, really. Just give me a pro-wrestling product I love. Oh wait, they are just doing that. To a ridiculous degree these days. @Migs you're the luckiest guy on this board ! 

[MoS]

Abolutely insane 2nd quarter growth. It is clear from the pattern that a lot of fans were not expecting Danielson-Omega to start the show. They tuned in in large numbers when they found out the match had started, and tuned out after it (and the Punk promo) was over and never tuned back in again. To be fair, following Danielson, Punk and Omega with Pillman Jr. was always going to haemorrhage viewers. It will be interesting to see when the next time they have a marquee TV main event, whether they choose to put it first for minimum commercials, or at the end for maximum ratings effect and ending the show on a high.

[Tetsujin]

The fhing with Cody is that, when he has to lose, he can't lose without some bullshit. He should have lost to Black clean again, but I guess two times are too much for him, so let's throw Arn Anderson and black mist to the equation. Same happened when Darby won the TNT title from him, they've been building that victoy since the very beginning of the company, but when it was time... He lost because he was a prick and got himself into a craddle, not because Darby earned that victory.

And I completely disagree with him being heel being his best version: just look at his heel work at New Japan and ROH. He was ATROCIOUS, to the point of killing matches. Best non-WWE Cody was fired up babyface against Jericho, and that lasted like two months or whatever. He's awful, and he has got to a point where he doesn't fit anywhere in AEW. I can't stand Omega and the Bucks, but at least they have a clearly defined role in the company. Cody seems like he always needs to have something because he's Cody Rhodes you know... but everything he gets is boring, repetitive and/or with low stakes. They created the TNT title for him to have something to win (because he booked himself to not wrestling for the world championship even though he still treats himself as a super main eventer and doesn't put over almost anyone, what a humble guy!), but now that championship has found it's place in the company because they have a pretty fucking good midcard and that championship doesn't need Cody anymore, so... What now? Where's Cody's character going? Who cares, honestly?

[El-P]

38 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

And I completely disagree with him being heel being his best version: just look at his heel work at New Japan and ROH. He was ATROCIOUS, to the point of killing matches. 

I'll agree to disagree. I never ever cared about Cody Rhodes ever nor seen anything in him while he was in WWE. I began to enjoy Cody when he was a heel with Brandi actually being terrific as a modern version of Sherri. The matches weren't that great (yes, I agree he got better after that point, at the start of the AEW run, but he was never a *great* worker either), but it was a very fun act and he really found himself during that period. 

38 minutes ago, Tetsujin said:

They created the TNT title for him to have something to win (because he booked himself to not wrestling for the world championship even though he still treats himself as a super main eventer and doesn't put over almost anyone, what a humble guy!), 

Actually, they did not make the TNT Title just to get something for something for him to win. They made the TNT Title to have another meaningful title and gave it to Cody because at this time he was one of the most over guy in the company (and it had the Dusty "lineage" which at times everybody thought was cool, that was before the warranted hatefest following the Ogogo stuff) and he made the belt important from day one, as did his weekly title defenses on TV. Then winning the title literally made Brodie and Darby for good (and getting Kingston a job too BTW).

I know people are down on Cody right now (which is pretty ironic considering he could not do anything wrong during the first year or so, to the point people argued that HE should be the biggest star in the company and the Elite were nothing but indie geeks or something, those statements have aged like milk), but I thought his match with Black was really good. He took mist in the face ? Ok and ? How does that hurt Black's win ? It doesn't, Black right now is like the coolest heel a-la Steve Austin in early 97, the fact he's using the mist like Muta only makes him even cooler. And the Arn stuff is happening for a reason. I actively look forward to a heel turn, which is the first thing I'll actively look forward with Cody since I guess his last TNT Title "run" (which was basically him putting Darby over). Maybe it'll end up being cringe, who knows, but I really like the idea of getting that Cody & Brandi back, plus it fits with the whole TV reality show stuff...

Oh yeah, and that Brandi spot was fucking awesome.  Black's reaction was perfect (and a total babyface one too, they know).

2 hours ago, MoS said:

They tuned in in large numbers when they found out the match had started, and tuned out after it (and the Punk promo) was over and never tuned back in again. To be fair, following Danielson, Punk and Omega with Pillman Jr. was always going to haemorrhage viewers. 

Yeah, that "I don't want to follow that" from Punk really resonated, it was gonna be very hard and Punk as the "cool down factor" wasn't making anyone any favors either, although he sure tried.

[MoS]

Yeah that TNT title absolutely needed to go to Cody, and the run was a massive success. Apart from doing well in ratings, it allowed a lot of indy wrestlers to get a big spotlight going against one of the promotion's biggest stars, and many of them got signed and are now carrying the company's midcard. He made the belt meaningful and that allowed Darby to become a true star when he beat Cody. Also don't get the criticism of the cradle finish. I thought it was clever and played off Cody cradling Darby off a coffin drop attempt to beat him in a previous match. 

I really believe it was the Shaq feud that killed him. Unable to challenge for the main title and no longer feuding for the TNT title meant he has created a Cody-verse within AEW where he retains his self-indulgence but partakes in angles that feel completely detached and incongruous with the larger promotion. The Ogogo feud was the worst example of this. It sticks out like a sore thumb in a promotion which makes an effort to integrate storylines and have wrestlers with loose affiliations and secondary feuds going on. 

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, MoS said:

I really believe it was the Shaq feud that killed him. 

The Shaq feud was a complete mess, but the match was actually very fun and way better than it had the right to be. But yeah, the build was all over the place and really made no sense (I still have no idea why this match happened kayfabe wise !).

What really hurt Cody, before the Ogogo stuff, which was terrible (that first promo is one for the ages in term of being completely tone-deaf to his audience), is the announcement of the real-TV show, which came during the same timeframe with the over-hyped debut of Christian Cage (they made up for it, but it was quite a misstep there), so there was a 1-2 punch of announcements the AEW audience really did not take very well (to the point they downplayed Christian actual debut where he just showed up and did nothing that night). And then the gender reveal stuff (fuck me).

So right now, Cody & Brandi the real TV stars douchebag couple sounds promising to me as an upper mid-card stuff. 

[sek69]

5 minutes ago, El-P said:

So right now, Cody & Brandi the real TV stars douchebag couple sounds promising to me.

The problem is it will be hard for them to not come off as as discount Miz and Maryse if they go that route, even if I agree it sounds promising. 

[Zoo Enthusiast]

A podcast I listen to calls it “Cody Island” and it’s pretty much the worst place you can be.  I personally enjoyed this Black match, mostly due to the Arn schtick portion.  Don’t have much interest in anything Cody-related at the moment and feel he gets lost in the shuffle on a roster getting steady infusions of far more talented wrestlers, but he has hooked me before when he’s had a meatier storyline.  The problem is that I *think* this was also supposed to be one of those and, if so, it missed the mark.

[El-P]

This was really all about getting Black over, and from that point of view, it's a total success, Malakai Black looks like a bigger star than he ever did in NXT or WWE main roster (yeah, I know). The HHH comparisons are so totally off the mark with Cody it's not even funny (Cody has made more people in two years than HHH in his entire career, which I guess is faint praise in a way but really is not), but people love simplistic analogies, especially to confirm their own biases (in one way or another), it's human nature. Cody is basically a lost soul on the AEW roster, "Cody Island" seems right. In a way it's actually pretty fascinating. 

[TheDuke]

I really liked hearing the crowd booing Cody so hard during his match. If he turns heel and is able to get the fans to boo him so loud during his matches it will make it fun for me to watch him. I love that kayfabe stuff of just having one guy the fans want to win and one guy the fans want to lose.

[MoS]

Cody's problem is not that he is HHH or Jarrett, it is that he has forced himself to be like the anti-HHH. Never in the main event scene, doing random fuckall shit, feuding with a trainer and rookies, totally bizarre shit. He's more like his dad in the late 80s, out of place and having out-of-sync feuds that feel like vanity projects, except he doesn't have Dusty's charisma and natural charm and cannot just faff and bullshit his way through it.

[KawadaSmile]

For all of the problems in his WWE run, Cody still has had his best match there. And he was a babyface there.

I think that Malakai was a made man before Grand Slam. He has the coolest fucking entrance in the company, has an edgy look, can kick really hard... and that's despite some puzzling moments during the build. Wednesday was more to solidify the Rhodes family as unlikeable than anything.

But then again, when Cody returned last week he got a pretty good pop. Maybe it's a NY thing and they just no sell it.

[El-P]

25 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

For all of the problems in his WWE run, Cody still has had his best match there. And he was a babyface there.

Come on now. Nothing he did in WWE even touches Cody vs Dustin at Double or Nothing. He was basically nothing in WWE, he had zero memorable matches or feuds there. Stardust ? The awkward face protection ? For fuck's sake, Cody was such a waste of time for ever until he got into the indies and finally found himself. Cody's first year in AEW destroys his entire career in WWE.

25 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Wednesday was more to solidify the Rhodes family as unlikeable than anything.

Yeah, to me it was to further Black as a star but also to really begin Cody & Brandi's heel turn.

[MoS]

I believe KawadaSmile is talking about the Rhodes Brothers vs Shield, which indeed was a tremendous match.

[El-P]

He would pimp a match involving Roman Reigns ? That's hard to believe.

Meanwhile, Bryan Danielson apparently wants to have a match with Zach Sabre Jr... Please, yes.

[funkdoc]

the Cody/Dustin tag run was easily the best in-ring run of his career, and i could see people preferring one of the matches there to Cody-Dustin (though not me)

[NintendoLogic]

Dave gave Bryan/Omega five stars in the Observer. Omega really is the GOAT if he can carry a scrub like Danielson to a fiveboy. Bryan now has as many five-star matches as Lars Sullivan.

[Kadaveri]

That really does show Dave's star ratings simply don't mean what they used to. Did anyone come out of that match saying "That was the greatest match of Bryan Danielson's career"?

[El-P]

Complaining about Meltz star ratings on PWO is as boring and uninteresting as people complaining about Fantano's ratings on RYM (yes, such a thing exists). Thankfully we don't have a list of matches where some gets bolded because of rating trends. 

It was an awesome match between two great wrestlers that would never have happened a few years ago. But people gotta bitch about star ratings.

It's certainly better than anything Bryan ever did in WWE. Before he showed up I rewatched some of his highly praised stuff there, and really it's on a whole other level (still loved that Triple H match). And it's not even gonna be their best, as it was obvious they were saving shit for later (hell, Omega saved shit for later with Okada, not knowing if he would ever face him again).

[Jmare007]

Well Dave broke his system years ago so a 5 star in 2021 is not the same as it was five or six years ago. Basically he gave Dragon a other 4 1/2*match

In all seriousness, it's the nth example as to why no one should take ratings that serously. It's one person's personal taste, take it or leave it. 

59 minutes ago, El-P said:

 

Meanwhile, Bryan Danielson apparently wants to have a match with Zach Sabre Jr... Please, yes.

He definitely does. He said in an interview he wants to do it in England. I wonder where they could have that match because it sounds like Dragon wants to be the asshole heel and that's his best versión as a wresler. 

 

The most funny part though is that he explained he wanted the match because ZSJ has won so many "Bryan Danielson Award" while AmDrag has been an active wresler

[El-P]

5 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

In all seriousness, it's the nth example as to why no one should take ratings that serously. It's one person's personal taste, take it or leave it. 

Word. Plus really, it's a rationalized version of one opinion at one particular time. I mean, really now, getting upset over such a thing is just baffling to me.

7 minutes ago, Jmare007 said:

The most funny part though is that he explained he wanted the match because ZSJ has won so many "Bryan Danielson Award" while AmDrag has been an active wresler

Yeah, that part was actually hilarious. I just want to hear those promos ! 

[Gramsci]

I also think the Danielson/Omega is better than any Bryan's match in WWE (maybe the Brock match is up there), I rewatched it last night and I noticed some details that I didn't see the first time. Also, I can't think of many matches from his career that are better than this one, maybe the match against Morishima in NY or the two famous Low Ki matches from 2002, and I'm not even sure about that. I'm trying to put together a Top 100 for the GME project and right now I wouldn't call many matches under US soil better than this Omega/Bryan (Eddy/Rey, Lawler/Funk/Dundee/Idol, Austin/Hart????), and it's only the first taste of a long story. I liked it that much.

But anyway, it's just my opinion, at the end of the day we create consensus around certain matches being the "best ever" for the GME project or other similar ones that if you show someone outside our bubble or from another forum, they might consider those as normal matches. I'm pretty sure somewhere someone has watched the Casas/Santo match or the Tamura/Yamamoto (to name my #1 and #2 spot) and thought that they were average matches.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, El-P said:

Come on now. Nothing he did in WWE even touches Cody vs Dustin at Double or Nothing. He was basically nothing in WWE, he had zero memorable matches or feuds there. Stardust ? The awkward face protection ? For fuck's sake, Cody was such a waste of time for ever until he got into the indies and finally found himself. Cody's first year in AEW destroys his entire career in WWE.

Yup, nearly everything you said is true. Still, he had his best match there. Not that him vs Dustin didn't bang or anything, it's almost just as good.

1 hour ago, MoS said:

I believe KawadaSmile is talking about the Rhodes Brothers vs Shield, which indeed was a tremendous match.

It's weird how that feels like it was ages ago.

1 hour ago, El-P said:

He would pimp a match involving Roman Reigns ? That's hard to believe.

Have you seen it, bubba? The match and the build to it were SPECTACULAR. The one single spot in his WWE tenure in which he felt like a big deal.

[El-P]

8 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

Have you seen it, bubba? The match and the build to it were SPECTACULAR. The one single spot in his WWE tenure in which he felt like a big deal.

I'm not sure, I may have back then. This period is kind of a blur TBH, I don't remember checking a lot of WWE things then (I remember the hype of the Wyatt Family more than anything else from that period), I was deep into reviewing WCW's death march I think and it was a full time pro-wrestling job ! It's on Dailymotion (ya know, the French Youtube , which has sunk so under the radar that no one even bother to send DMCA !), so I may check it out just because why not.