AEW Revolution 2023

[sek69]

One major plus for this show, is TK seems to have finally learned not to overstuff every PPV show with a dozen plus matches. Yeah, the main was going an hour and that was probably part of it, but only having one match on the pre show was a breath of fresh air. 

[Dav'oh]

Just gave my eight-year old daughter a triple-shot of Chartreuse. It'll help numb the pain of the face tatt she's getting for her birthday. 

[The Man in Blak]

28 minutes ago, Coffey said:

I loved the finishing sequence in the trios tag title match. The Murphy knee off the springboard into the Black roundhouse kick into the GROSS assisted Greetings from Asbury Park. Everything looked like death there. House of Black look like monsters! Love it.

I thought Elite/HoB was "fine", but I do agree that the finish helped them stick the landing. I can't really stand the Bucks (and even, to a lesser extent, Omega) as babyfaces, but that disdain kind of enhanced the match because the high-level storyline of the match was largely the House of Black kicking their faces in. The details when you zoom in further get messy as always - the Julia Hart interference sucked and the Elite were as predictable as ever - but it felt like the match was structured to get the House of Black over as being too vicious to be trifled with and that mission was largely accomplished. I don't know that the HoB has gotten that kind of reaction at any point in AEW up to this point and, if they are looking to actually keep this trios title going (meh), AEW desperately needs them to be in the mix.

[sek69]

If nothing else, they made a star out of Brody King in that match. Dude was an unstoppable beast. 

[southofheavy]

50 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I am, where do I fall on that statement?

You're good. 
 

[Dav'oh]

Who needs Dr. Sidney M. Basil?

[The Man in Blak]

21 minutes ago, sek69 said:

If nothing else, they made a star out of Brody King in that match. Dude was an unstoppable beast. 

I thought everybody came away looking great - Buddy had an awesome moment with the finish and both Buddy and Black had some great shine off their opening exchanges with Omega. If anything, I came away wanting to see an Omega/Black match (that will never happen) because they had great chemistry throughout.

[southofheavy]

He threw tequila on the kid. According to reports, some of it got in his eye. If you've never had alcohol put in your eye, I really don't recommend it. 

When you're an adult, don't harm kids. Yes, that includes throwing alcoholic drinks on them. Also, don't be the type of adult who says "they'll be fine" about a kid. It is fucking scary to be a kid when an adult acts that irresponsible with you and you can never know what kind of an effect it will have going forward. 

Good on AEW, Amanda Huber and the members of the audience who went out of their way to comfort the kid.  

As for MJF, what he did was wildly irresponsible, immature, stupid and just plain shitty. He is very, very lucky that an adult who can handle themself and looking for a reason wasn't around, and there might come a time when that happens. Also, under California law, what he did was simple assault. Beyond that, it's another thing that goes to show that MJF really isn't mature enough for the spot that he's in. I get that being an edgelord is part of his schtick, but it's the very thing that drags down everything that he does. He's shown that he doesn't need it at all, and frankly, neither does AEW. What they need for him is to grow the fuck up. 

[WingedEagle]

21 minutes ago, southofheavy said:

He threw tequila on the kid. According to reports, some of it got in his eye. If you've never had alcohol put in your eye, I really don't recommend it. 

When you're an adult, don't harm kids. Yes, that includes throwing alcoholic drinks on them. Also, don't be the type of adult who says "they'll be fine" about a kid. It is fucking scary to be a kid when an adult acts that irresponsible with you and you can never know what kind of an effect it will have going forward. 

Good on AEW, Amanda Huber and the members of the audience who went out of their way to comfort the kid.  

As for MJF, what he did was wildly irresponsible, immature, stupid and just plain shitty. He is very, very lucky that an adult who can handle themself and looking for a reason wasn't around, and there might come a time when that happens. Also, under California law, what he did was simple assault. Beyond that, it's another thing that goes to show that MJF really isn't mature enough for the spot that he's in. I get that being an edgelord is part of his schtick, but it's the very thing that drags down everything that he does. He's shown that he doesn't need it at all, and frankly, neither does AEW. What they need for him is to grow the fuck up. 

Amen.  I never thought there were two sides to assaulting a child but here we are.  Meanwhile anyone storms the ring and that person is likely (and rightfully) being arrested with the only question being what kind of extracurriculars they're subjected to on the way out of the building.  If MJF were a professional athlete it'd probably cost him 7 figures once all suspensions were said and done, and if he were in a less lucrative field like acting or something else with an audience he's probably out of a job.  The kid's a joke.

[RocknWrestling]

Not really sure that I have anything to add about Revolution itself that hasn't already been said, but it was interesting to see who was over and who wasn't to the Chase Center crowd.

Mark Briscoe and Ricky Starks were actually pretty over in San Francisco. Not sure why that surprised me. Briscoe was the only one the crowd seemed to really want to see in the pre-show six-man tag too.

People were digging Brody King as the beast of the match and were actually happy that the Elite lost. Crowd also went mild after Hangman Page choked out Moxley. Nobody seemed to care about Wardlow, although Samoa Joe was definitely over. I don't think the fact that Wardlow looks small standing next to Joe helped. Of course the Acclaimed were very over and I'm sure that Anthony Bowens would have been quite popular at the gay bar of his choice. Everybody also loved chanting ASS BOYS at the Gunns, but I'm not sure if that's an indicator of overness or just the juvenile fun of yelling ASS BOYS really loud, heh. FTR's return got a HUGE pop, probably the second biggest reaction of the night.

How many damn water breaks does MJF need to take to get through an hour plus-long match? Great match otherwise, in no small part thanks to Danielson's skill and effort. That kneeling head-to-head thing that they were doing prior to the headbutt and forearm exchange had some of us chuckling and asking if they were about to make out. FIGHT FOREVER chant was a bit ridiculous seeing as they'd been fighting for nearly an hour by that point. I think most of us were anticipating it going to a draw and then sudden death. We were likely expecting MJF to win as well, although Bryan had us thinking otherwise until the bitter end. MJF is still the most over wrestler on AEW's roster though, far and away from everyone else except maybe FTR.

Hadn't been to the Chase Center before and don't really want to go there again. We had upper deck seats and the way they're set up is really vertigo-inducing if you're not used to how steep it is to get to where you're sitting. Not sure who they expect to sit in these seats either; you'd have to be Riho's size to fit in them without feeling cramped. I have chronic pain issues, so I spent much of the show aching due to the seating arrangement. Actually missed the women's triple threat because I needed to get up and walk around a bit to ease the pain somewhat.

Good show and I'm glad that we were able to go, despite feeling stiff as a board afterwards. 

[Embrodak]

“Assault” is a term with both legal and social dimensions. Regardless of the letter of California’s statutes, I really don’t think a performer playing a bad guy in an interactive show intentionally throwing a drink on a kid to show how bad he is would rise to the average person’s intuitive sense of what “assaulting a child” entails. And if it meets *your* threshold, it is what it is, but I cannot agree that that is a morally or socially proportionate internal calibration. The fact that we live in an incredibly litigious and impersonal society wherein that act *would* have had steeper consequences under other, non-performative circumstances is not proof in and of itself that those steeper consequences are in fact more reflective of the gravity of the act; it’s proof that living in mass society entails stripping context and common sense out of how we adjudicate interpersonal interactions. (Putting on my pretend internet lawyer hat, I’m not convinced a judge wouldn’t take the performative context into account in determining whether the complainants have grounds to sue or whether MJF could actually be charged with anything, but that’s a question for someone with a real internet lawyer hat.)

 

An apology, free tickets, probably a backstage meet-and-greet, and setting firmer boundaries for how your performers interact with fans in the future is perfectly sufficient redress for this, and it’s a much better, healthier lesson in conflict management and resolution for this kid to learn than immediately jumping to the top shelf of outrage, frictionlessly imbuing the absolute worst reaction the kid could have had into the situation, and demanding the guy’s scalp. (Also kinda weird to have that reaction when the company the act occurred in regularly has performers brawling and doing dives into the crowd, which is objectively much more dangerous and could do a lot more damage if it went wrong, as AEW spots have a nasty habit of doing it we’re being honest.)

[sek69]

2 hours ago, WingedEagle said:

Amen.  I never thought there were two sides to assaulting a child but here we are.

I haven't seen anyone being pro-child assault, just some folks who feel MJF doesn't need to be shunned to the cornfield over it. He fucked up, and by all accounts the company did good by the kid and I'm sure TK tore him a new ass over it. 

[southofheavy]

10 minutes ago, sek69 said:

I haven't seen anyone being pro-child assault, just some folks who...

...are doing mental gymnastics to prove that it isn't, which is pretty sad. 

 

 

21 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

 Regardless of the letter of California’s statutes...The fact that we live in an incredibly litigious and impersonal society... 

And there ya go, though impersonality doesn't have anything to do with it. It was a stupid thing to do because, as an adult, ya don't fucking do that to kids, AND because it opens yourself and your company up to litigation. The verdict is immaterial. 

 

24 minutes ago, Embrodak said:

than immediately jumping to the top shelf of outrage, frictionlessly imbuing the absolute worst reaction the kid could have had into the situation, and demanding the guy’s scalp. 

 That's reading a lot into what I said, but you do you. 

[Dav'oh]

I'm most amused by "I don't like MJF's heel character, so I won't boo him."

"He uses cheap heat." "He tries too hard." "He's gone too far!" "Won't somebody think of the children?" The inference being, that if MJF's heel tactics were more to one's liking, one would boo him.

"He's not the heel I want him to be, so I don't like him" is the real gymnastic degree-of-difficulty.

What's the kid's name, just by-the-by? I mean, I assume people are going to monitor his emotional and psychological well-being over the next decades - or will people stop giving a shit by the time tomorrow's mini-outrage hits the social media disgraces? I wonder how many minutes sleep the hand-wringers will actually lose.

[Embrodak]

5 hours ago, southofheavy said:

...are doing mental gymnastics to prove that it isn't, which is pretty sad. 

 

 

And there ya go, though impersonality doesn't have anything to do with it. It was a stupid thing to do because, as an adult, ya don't fucking do that to kids, AND because it opens yourself and your company up to litigation. The verdict is immaterial. 

 

 That's reading a lot into what I said, but you do you. 

Dude, I phrased that shit as nicely and diplomatically as I possibly could. If you want less nice, I could say you’re acting like the crunchy parent version of Helen Lovejoy, and I’m very glad I was raised by parents who taught me to take things proportionately. *Nobody* here is saying that what MJF did was a good or smart thing to do, but I do not want to live in your version of society where “how dare he assault that child” is the general reaction. My dad would have been pissed if a wrestler did that to me, but if the wrestler and the company apologized and made it right, he would have encouraged me not to overreact or nurse a grudge *and would have been correct to do so*. I’m done indulging this, peace.

[Dav'oh]

If You See Something, Say Something.

Any decent person who legitimately believes they witnessed a semi-naked adult assaulting a child, has a duty of care to that child, and to society, to report said assault to the relevant authorities. Anyone who doesn't report it, well, I'm not sure if they're parenting material.

[NintendoLogic]

Looking at how MJF's performance in the Iron Man match has been largely overshadowed by the drink incident, I now suspect that his disappearing act last year wasn't a deliberate attempt to steal Wardlow's thunder. He just has flawed ideas about how to draw heat. More than anything, it needs to be beaten into his head that Brian Pillman's Loose Cannon gimmick sucked and should be emulated by no one.

[KawadaSmile]

1 hour ago, NintendoLogic said:

Looking at how MJF's performance in the Iron Man match has been largely overshadowed by the drink incident, I now suspect that his disappearing act last year wasn't a deliberate attempt to steal Wardlow's thunder. He just has flawed ideas about how to draw heat. More than anything, it needs to be beaten into his head that Brian Pillman's Loose Cannon gimmick sucked and should be emulated by no one.

But why would he stop? Last time he did that, he returned and got a mega, World Champ-level push. Him pulling dumb shit once would have been enough for management to beat that into his head.

If anyone needs to wisen up, its TK. He is the goddamn boss and his employees are just doing whatever the fuck they want, and given AEW is trying to negotiate better TV deals, some control would be nice.

[southofheavy]

3 hours ago, Embrodak said:

Dude, I phrased that shit as nicely and diplomatically as I possibly could.

Just a heads up, when you phrase shit as nicely and diplomatically as you could, you read like you're wearing a fedora. 

Saying the guy needs to grow the fuck up doesn't equate to calling for his scalp. I never once said that he should be suspended, get the title stripped from him or fired. That said: 

30 minutes ago, KawadaSmile said:

If anyone needs to wisen up, its TK. He is the goddamn boss and his employees are just doing whatever the fuck they want, and given AEW is trying to negotiate better TV deals, some control would be nice.

This, too.

[strobogo]

Reading the thread, I figured MJF had thrown a drink hard directly in a kid's face. Then I saw it and it was such a quick and half hearted thing. Like MJF even realized before and while he was doing it that it was a bad idea and sheepishly did it and got away as fast as he could.

However, he threw water over multiple people in the front row later in the match and no one has mentioned it at all. 

[SirEdger]

6 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

Looking at how MJF's performance in the Iron Man match has been largely overshadowed by the drink incident, I now suspect that his disappearing act last year wasn't a deliberate attempt to steal Wardlow's thunder. He just has flawed ideas about how to draw heat. More than anything, it needs to be beaten into his head that Brian Pillman's Loose Cannon gimmick sucked and should be emulated by no one.

I see more MJF trying to be 2023's version of Roddy Piper in 1984 than Brian Pillman as The Loose Cannon but that's just me.

[The Man in Blak]

I think what's throwing me for a loop with the discussion here is how MJF splashing a drink on this kid is being treated as though he's crossed some kind of moral event horizon.

This is a professional wrestling event, an event where every conflict is resolved by violence, where "Holy Shit" is a common refrain from the crowd, where one guy notably stabbed another guy in the head with a fork multiple times while attempting to choke him out and then, later, the guy getting stabbed with a fork won the match by literally hanging the other guy from the top rope with a chain.

Characterizing MJF's actions as an assault, while technically valid in the abstract and absent of context, also feels like it's in direct contradiction to the event that provided MJF and others the audience and the opportunity to perform.

Everybody has their own lines to draw with this sort of stuff -- if you want to say that this is a violation of some sort of implied social contract in pro wrestling where the wrestlers and their performance should be in a "magic circle" that's safely divided from the audience, so be it -- but the actions here are not so far removed from the surrounding moral ambivalence of pro wrestling as a whole that it warrants such a charged discussion in my view.

To me, it's a screw-up because the upside of MJF proving that he's a Real Heel in that moment doesn't really make up for the downside. You can Always Be Working - these are professional wrestlers we're talking about - but they still need to be working effectively.

7 hours ago, KawadaSmile said:

If anyone needs to wisen up, its TK. He is the goddamn boss and his employees are just doing whatever the fuck they want, and given AEW is trying to negotiate better TV deals, some control would be nice.

Despite all of what I said above, I also agree that this is just one more instance of TK exercising no semblance of control over the product. If this isn't what TK wants to present as part of All Elite Wrestling, then he needs to step in and shut this sort of thing down, full stop.

[strobogo]

Show way, way, way over delivered. 

[Speaker-to-Animals]

On 3/6/2023 at 8:12 PM, El Boricua said:

In the case of MJF throwing the drink, the incident should be taken as a warning to be a bit more careful on doing things so off the cuff with people who aren't in on it. You never know when you will inadvertently end up picking on the wrong person to do that to. Just minimizes the possibility of things out of your control happening if these intentional things are done with people who are in on it.

How many warnings do they need? MJF has mocked a disabled fan, ruined someone's drawing, thrown a fan's phone, asked if it was "too late to abort" a young girl, spat in someone's coffee, thrown someone's hat, gave a kid the finger, and now stole someone's drink and threw it on a child. Most of these were picked up by the wrestling media so it isn't like MJF and AEW don't know how this stuff is perceived even if there's a vocal group that defends anything he does as being a "good heel". I guess him usually targetting children and the infirm whilst knowing most adult fans are marks these days lowers the risk of him being punched out, plus there's the whole "fan touching a wrestler means the fan can be mercilessly beaten by security and half the roster" thing.

It's approaching "middle of Fifth Avenue..." territory with some people.

(I would have included him motor boating that one fan but I guess it's consensual even if it's a risky thing to do these days)

On 3/7/2023 at 4:39 AM, Embrodak said:

Assault” is a term with both legal and social dimensions. Regardless of the letter of California’s statutes, I really don’t think a performer playing a bad guy in an interactive show intentionally throwing a drink on a kid to show how bad he is would rise to the average person’s intuitive sense of what “assaulting a child” entails.

The old "I was merely pretending to be retarded" excuse hasn't cut it for over a decade now. What MJF does is he involves people -  often minors - from outside the performance and makes them part of it in a derogatory manner without their consent. This isn't jawing back at a gobby fan nor is it a pantomime where the story is self contained and the villain vanquished.

If you want a comparison it's like those trashy YouTube prank channels everyone abhors, except they're almost always set-ups because they'd get sued. So really it's more like those even dimmer morons that try to be prank channels but are too lazy to set it up properly.

 

[NintendoLogic]

So we've gone from people saying the drink incident crossed the line in a way tearing up a fan's sign doesn't (which it did) to someone earnestly pointing to scribbling on a fan's drawing as an example of MJF going too far. If you willingly initiate interaction with him at a wrestling-related event, there's clearly a degree of implied consent. It's like buying front row tickets to see Gallagher and getting upset if chunks of watermelon land on you. In both cases, I think the act is dumb, but you knew (or should have known) what you were getting into.