GWE 2026 Reaction Thread

[Mantaur Rodeo Clown]

1 hour ago, El Dragon said:

I was going to make a large multi-paragraph essay about how some of this "These AEW fans are ruining everything" point is silly, but I'll just simply say this: By my count, there are 26 wrestlers (Matt forgot Ishii) who have contributed to their case in AEW at some point in the last half decade that made the top 200.

Firstly, let me just say thank you for writing such a long, detailed post. Always appreciate the efforts. I think you are slightly off-base with your train of thought, but love the response anyways. To say that a company that has only existed for 7 or so years (and those years being the LAST 7 years, including a pandemic) but somehow managed to have over 12.5 per cent of the greatest 200 wrestlers to have ever lived on planet earth wrestle for them is a mathematical oddity, to say the least. 
 

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So, more reasonably, you end up with: Swerve Strickland, MJF, Adam Page, and Darby Allin as the 4 guys who I would say are real AEW cases. Swerve and MJF didn't make the top 150, and I frankly find nothing wrong with their landing spots: Swerve is possibly a little high but he's actually been in major companies between LU and WWE for the vast majority of 12 years, it's not like there isn't footage of him, and MJF has some awesome ceilings.

I mean here's the problem here. You don't see a problem with them making it that high, so nothing to see here? Except there are undoubtedly others, myself included, who find it laughable that they ranked so highly. So where are we at now? The argument is that, taken out of time and context, they do not nearly have the bodies of work to support their positions when measured against wrestlers far below them. 

MJF being a prime example. I'm under the impression most people are voting based on the in-ring ability of a wrestler. Which makes his placement all the more ridiculous. His booking and lack of house show appearances means he has the equivalent of maybe a couple years work under his belt compared to an 80s worker on their schedule. I'd say his match catalogue is filled with self-indulgent, awful overbooking and overreaches. The argument is, without a significant boost from recency bias and AEW fans who have never actually watched the guys he is desperately trying to emulate and steal from, he wouldn't be considered by multiple voters (!!!) as a top 3 wrestler of all time, let alone top 100. 

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But still it didn't push them into making the list. And, honestly, maybe I'll be proven wrong here, but I don't think Page is making the list either.

I don't understand this. He did make the list. The whole list is what we're discussing. I mean, just because there are 100 entries doesn't mean the list ends there. Particularly how the master list has previous years going back into the 100s. He's still on the list, and hundreds of spots above wrestlers whose primes were decades before him and thus probably suffered.

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I will also note the idea that "We were more backward leaning in 2016, thus our list is better" is also at least partially just not wanting to admit something that I thought was fairly obvious about the 2016 list: It's not all about being backward leaning, it was the voter base also pretty massively let nostalgia cloud their judgement.

I understand your point, but the odds aren't in your favor. We're trying to discover who the greatest wrestler of all time is. It is natural that people whose careers have ended and that we have had years to watch and study will do better. We are judging on accomplishments. Not the potential of someone looking forward, or someone whose career is still nascent. It is the same in any field, be it films, music or literature. It is very rare that any greatest list is filled with films from the past 5 years.

It isn't nostalgia, it's merely mathematical sense. What are the odds that not only are many of the greatest wrestlers of all time wrestling right at this moment, but that they are also already among the greatest while halfway through their careers? What are the odds that these modern wrestlers have already superseded those who had careers that stretched decades longer and have survived through the decades by the power of their work?

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Basically, I think the "the young vote are pushing way too many names whose cases aren't made yet" thing just straight up doesn't hold water. I think it barely held water in 2016 for a lot of these guys, and it's outright silly now.

And I respectfully disagree. I'm not saying people like Bianca Belair or Konosuke Takeshita aren't talented. I'm saying we have barely even seen their careers take shape yet, and their strong performances are only explained by a lot of younger voters. 

Edited 2 hours ago by Mantaur Rodeo Clown

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm inclined to believe the list is more random than AEW-ccentric, otherwise surely MJF and Hangman Page would have done better (I'm assuming.)

Strong showing for Black Terry. Not so great for Dick Murdoch and Fit Finlay, though not terrible. 

[Matt D]

Murdoch's drop makes sense given the voter pool. If I was Jerry Lawler and I cared about this instead of just my collection of coca-cola merchandise and younger women, I'd be mighty worried. 

I think maybe the best new old match we've gotten in the last five years is Murdoch vs Fujiawara, but it was a little bit gated due to protecting sources. 

As always, someone has to be in the top 100, so we'll see who that ends up being.

[El-P]

7 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I will say, in all seriousness, that I have a lot of respect for Takada's wife, and the battle the couple went through to be recognized as the legal parents of their surrogate children. 

I am not familiar with this story, but good for them ! Is Takada still somewhat of famous name in Japan today ?

Bruiser Brody and Carlos Colon being so close together is.... ironic, to say the least. Well, if you talk about aura, Bruiser Brody should be the ultimate candidate. He's much better than he has been stereotyped to be too. Back in my days (uh) of watching 80's japanese stuff, I always enjoyed Brody's work for what it was.

Two things I know about Dick Murdoch : 

1/ He had a wicked brainbuster. 

2/ He was a Klan member.

Fuck Dick Murdoch.

The Dymanite Kid. Yeah. Trash human being. One of the most influential worker ever.

Hangman Adam Page. 💜

Fit Finlay. *yawn*

GOLDY ! Hey, the Goldberg push is the worst trope of the last 30 years. It worked ONCE. Don't do it ever again. It's done. The fact he got a botched retirement because Levesque is still bitter about WCW beating their ass is kinda funny.

[Control21]

Billy Robinson got disrespected 

[ohtani's jacket]

I don't think you could have scripted Brisco, Junior, and Robinson falling in succession. 

[El Dragon]

The Martel drop might have broken me from defending the voters completely. The singular best babyface of the 80's for my money.

[El-P]

6 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I'm inclined to believe the list is more random than AEW-ccentric, otherwise surely MJF and Hangman Page would have done better (I'm assuming.)

Agreed.

The Jack Briscoe/Dory Funk Jr./Billy Robinson combo is impressive. I'm sure someone somewhere is going "One of these names is not like the other"

Rick Martel. Yep. Bye bye 80's territory guys. It was fun while it lasted. I'm kinda glad he finished way higher than tons of his counterpart though. Fuck Booker T and his idiot brother forever for ending Rick Martel's awesome comeback in 98.

And here goes Sareee. Her NXT days seems like a fever dream. Is there any modern joshi left ?

[El-P]

12 minutes ago, Matt D said:

If I was Jerry Lawler and I cared about this instead of just my collection of coca-cola merchandise and younger women, I'd be mighty worried. 

The fact he hasn't dropped yet is a disgrace, really. Also, Hogan still in the race ? (see what I did there ?)

[El-P]

6 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I don't think you could have scripted Brisco, Junior, and Robinson falling in succession. 

Kayfabe.

[ohtani's jacket]

3 minutes ago, El-P said:

I am not familiar with this story, but good for them ! Is Takada still somewhat of famous name in Japan today ?

His wife is an actress and TV celebrity. She was diagnosed with cervical cancer after becoming pregnant and had to undergo a hysterectomy to treat the cancer (forcing her to lose the baby.) They used a surrogate mother in the States to give birth to twin boys, but Japan being Japan, there are also sorts of archaic laws surrounding surrogacy. She eventually lost her legal battle to be registered as the boys' legal mother, but her case generated huge debate. Takada was most recently in the news for heart issues he's been having. 

[El-P]

Just now, ohtani's jacket said:

His wife is an actress and TV celebrity. She was diagnosed with cervical cancer after becoming pregnant and had to undergo a hysterectomy to treat the cancer (forcing her to lose the baby.) They used a surrogate mother in the States to give birth to twin boys, but Japan being Japan, there are also sorts of archaic laws surrounding surrogacy. She eventually lost her legal battle to be registered as the boys' legal mother, but her case generated huge debate. Takada was most recently in the news for heart issues he's been having. 

Thanks. Damn. I guess this won't get any better with the current administration either.

[Control21]

3 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

His wife is an actress and TV celebrity. She was diagnosed with cervical cancer after becoming pregnant and had to undergo a hysterectomy to treat the cancer (forcing her to lose the baby.) They used a surrogate mother in the States to give birth to twin boys, but Japan being Japan, there are also sorts of archaic laws surrounding surrogacy. She eventually lost her legal battle to be registered as the boys' legal mother, but her case generated huge debate. Takada was most recently in the news for heart issues he's been having. 

Hasn't Takada been doing BJJ with Rickson in the past few years? It was kinda cool seeing photos of the two together 

[gungan]

Black Terry is another one who ranked much higher than I thought he would (nice to see he got a top three vote). I wonder how much those Ricky Marvin and Mr Condor matches helped to boost his case.

Goldberg revisionism is one of the best things to happen in wrestling nerd circles in the past half decade or so. He was the best and WCW should've ran him vs. Flynn as a world title program. And amen to that snowboiii quote; Goldberg wrecking shit in the 2003 Elimination Chamber is peak wrestling.

[El-P]

BTW, Goldy is the picture perfect aura-farming guy indeed.

[Grimmas]

9 minutes ago, El-P said:

And here goes Sareee. Her NXT days seems like a fever dream. Is there any modern joshi left ?

 

By memory, Mayu.

[HowtobeaMark]

That was a particularly painful drop there, lost 6 of my Top 100. 24 down, 76 live on. 

[ohtani's jacket]

Just now, El-P said:

Thanks. Damn. I guess this won't get any better with the current administration either.

Probably not. Eventually, she was forced to adopt them in order for the boys to be recognized as Japanese citizens.  

[El-P]

Just now, Grimmas said:

By memory, Mayu.

Oh, of course. How could I forget Mayu ? 

(there's a joke somewhere that goes "Well, she's in Marigold now, that's why")

[ohtani's jacket]

8 minutes ago, Control21 said:

Hasn't Takada been doing BJJ with Rickson in the past few years? It was kinda cool seeing photos of the two together 

I think Rickson promoted Takada to brown belt. Takada's still in great shape for a guy in his 60s, notwithstanding his ticker issues. 

[ZubazKid]

1 hour ago, El Dragon said:

I was going to make a large multi-paragraph essay about how some of this "These AEW fans are ruining everything" point is silly, but I'll just simply say this: By my count, there are 26 wrestlers (Matt forgot Ishii) who have contributed to their case in AEW at some point in the last half decade that made the top 200. Out of those workers, I would say, maybe, at most, 8 of them are actually AEW first cases.

Six of them (Jericho, Claudio, Danielson, Joe, Punk, and Dustin) made the 2016 list, so they are disqualified because if they made this version of the list before AEW ever existed. New Japan is the primary case for Okada, Omega, Ospreay, Ishii, and Shibata. Christian and Mercedes primary case is obviously there WWE work with other projects tossed in, Rush's best claim to fame is much more his 10 years in CMLL, Sting is god damned Sting, and all of Roddy, Mark, PAC and Kingston have basically been everywhere working long 20 year careers with great work all over the shop. 

So, taking out clearly the non AEW primary cases, you get some mixed bag cases like Moxley, The Bucks, and Toni Storm, and while AEW work is a big part of their case, they had cases well before AEW started. So, more reasonably, you end up with: Swerve Strickland, MJF, Adam Page, and Darby Allin as the 4 guys who I would say are real AEW cases. Swerve and MJF didn't make the top 150, and I frankly find nothing wrong with their landing spots: Swerve is possibly a little high but he's actually been in major companies between LU and WWE for the vast majority of 12 years, it's not like there isn't footage of him, and MJF has some awesome ceilings. But still it didn't push them into making the list. And, honestly, maybe I'll be proven wrong here, but I don't think Page is making the list either. Just can't see a world were he's 60 something spots ahead of MJF. So all of this griping all because Darby Allin is probably making the top 100, when he's already established himself as one of the better TV workers in recent memory (Admittedly by working every match like it's Wrestlemania, but still) That feels absolutely silly to me.

 

I will also note the idea that "We were more backward leaning in 2016, thus our list is better" is also at least partially just not wanting to admit something that I thought was fairly obvious about the 2016 list: It's not all about being backward leaning, it was the voter base also pretty massively let nostalgia cloud their judgement.

Reel used Pillman as an example of a worker who fell, and trying to find a reason for it, when the obvious one was right in front of him: Pillman getting all the way to 72 in 2016 (A rating I've generally held as one of the most confusing in 2016) was just simply way too high. I like Brian Pillman, he was a damn good worker.... for about 4-5 years, at maximum. He was influential, sure, but it's a short peak, and the peak wasn't even that crazy high, he wasn't pulling a Hokuto or something. But still, he got to 72 when a wrestler like Low-Ki, for example had a longer prime already by 2016, and hit higher highs by that point missed the top 100 completely. But nostalgia clouds all judgement, and always will. Pretending otherwise is silly.

 

But that is also why it's going to be hard to have a lot of the old names not get beaten out by new ones as they come in. Because the younger voters, even their ones in their 20's, are also nostalgic for the guys they grew up with. Hell, I'm 37, voted in the last GWE, and I'm incredibly nostalgic for my viewing experiences as a kid, attending my first major shows that will stick with me forever. But the problem is? The guys who I went to see on those shows are still good now. The vast majority of the "modern" candidates that are doing well here have 15 damn years of really good tape. I'm not a Bucks fan, but if you are one, you can easily say "They've been a great tag team for 18 years" and have the footage to back it up. I'm hoping Roderick Strong makes the list, and a big part of that is I think he's been a great worker (With a rough year or two thrown in) since literally 2005. So the younger fans feel nostalgia for the workers who are not only still around, but still really good.

 

Basically, I think the "the young vote are pushing way too many names whose cases aren't made yet" thing just straight up doesn't hold water. I think it barely held water in 2016 for a lot of these guys, and it's outright silly now.

 

 

Well look at that, I had some paragraphs written after all.

 

Slow clap. Great points all around and this basically sums up my thoughts as well.

[Tetsujin]

26 minutes ago, ohtani's jacket said:

I don't think you could have scripted Brisco, Junior, and Robinson falling in succession. 

Just came here to say this. Beautiful.

Very respectable places for Black Terry and Carlos Colón, I didn't expect them so high but was happy when I saw them.

Finlay and specially Martel are the first ones dropping off the top 100 that made me a little sad. Martel was indeed one of the very best babyfaces of the 80s, and one of the biggest victims of WWE absorbing the starts from the territories. I guess Finlay has become a distant case for a lot of new voters, huh. Guessing were Regal is going to fall.

[Makai Club #1]

1 hour ago, Matt D said:

Going through all of UWF 2.0 (Just saw Maeda vs Takada 1/90), I wish Takada is more emotive (or alternatively, leaned into not being emotive as a clearer, more distinct quality), but I do find him as a very good foil for other wrestlers. I'd just rather usually see the other wrestlers. I'm just never upset to see someone I'm interested up against him, because I know they'll be able to push off him in interesting ways.

He does work best as a contrast to the others. I also think because he's clearly limited compared to, let's say, Fujiwara, it makes him appealing as an underdog in those matches. That's how I always interpreted those matches. 

[ohtani's jacket]

It's a shame we can't bet on this. 

Which US territory guys are left? Lawler, Flair, Tully, Arn, Valentine, Steamboat, Hennig, Windham, Backlund, Bruno, Dusty, Piper. 

Am I missing anyone? 

 

[Tetsujin]

Just now, ohtani's jacket said:

It's a shame we can't bet on this. 

Which US territory guys are left? Lawler, Flair, Tully, Arn, Valentine, Steamboat, Hennig, Windham, Backlund, Bruno, Dusty, Piper. 

Am I missing anyone? 

 

Gordy. Oh, and Bruno is still alive (so is Thesz but I know that's getting it too far away from what you're refering to).