Matt Hardy is not a Main Eventer

[spudz25]

 

 

When you think of guys who never had *it* either but were good upper mid-card workers, Shane Douglas and Jeff Jarrett were a lot better than Triple H ever was on every level (even though Jarrett is not a very good promo either).

 

 

Those two are great comparisons when it comes to guys not having an "it" factor. Though, I disagree with the comment of them being better than HHH, these 3 were certainly lucky to be the top guy in "their" promotion.

 

I was drinking the ECW kool aid at the time of Shane's push, thinking he was the next great thing in wrestling. Jarrett has never impressed me aside from his IYH match with Shawn.

 

As for promos, all 3 of them are transparent in the sense that you can see through the acting in every instance.

[Loss]

HHH also in some ways always struck me as someone who you're embarrassed to watch with non-wrestling fans. A long-haired guy wearing denim and leather who looks like a neanderthal is the type of thing people use to make fun of wrestling. People within the wrestling bubble don't always get this, but guys who are that bloated and overly muscular generally turn people off.

[smkelly]

Let alone the water spit routine, and awkwardly long introduction.

[rovert]

HHH is super over with my casual and ex wrestling fan friends to the extent Im the one cringing by their carry on.

[spudz25]

HHH is certainly a product of that WWE Machine.

 

Casual fans dig him and honestly if you can step outside of the wrestling fandom mode, the way he's shoveled out to the public, it's hard to not care about him.

 

Unfortunately, when you watch WWE on a regular basis, you tire of his bloated physique and overpushed character. He's one of the main reasons that I quit watching Raw on a regular basis a few years back.

[smkelly]

I don't tire of his bloated physique, not that I find all that appealing. His body changes like my moods, which to the normal person, is weird, and although I am far from normal, I find his constant metamorphosis odd.

I grew tired of him with the twenty minute opening dialogues every week, the Katie Vick angle, his lengthy title reigns, his numerous title reigns, his two year feud with HBK, his constant obsession of becoming his mentor, etc.

I dug his character in 2000, well, more or less his work rate than his character. To be honest, I have never liked his character. In addition, I have never really liked any of the characters I have seen in pro wrestling. They're either too bland, excessive, or unbelievable (think of Kane and the Undertaker).

[Bix]

I don't tire of his bloated physique, not that I find all that appealing. His body changes like my moods, which to the normal person, is weird, and although I am far from normal, I find his constant metamorphosis odd.

He gets off steroids whenever he and Stephanie are trying to conceive.

[Loss]

I have never really liked any of the characters I have seen in pro wrestling. They're either too bland, excessive, or unbelievable (think of Kane and the Undertaker).

Never liked a gimmick or never liked a wrestler?

[El-P]

Those two are great comparisons when it comes to guys not having an "it" factor. Though, I disagree with the comment of them being better than HHH, these 3 were certainly lucky to be the top guy in "their" promotion.

Triple H and Jeffrey were lucky. Well, one fucked his way to the top, the other one got it because he was friend with the booker then got his own company.

Shane on the other hand, was perfect in his role. For the small ECW, Douglas brought the credibility of coming from WCW (moreso than WWF), he carried himself like the personna he was portraying, was excellent from 94 to 96 as a worker, before injuries piled up. Really, he did a great job in ECW, the Franchise character was right on the money (a wrestler who took pride in being a wrestler, but took himself too seriously and was also a slimeball and a cheater).

Really, Shane with that gimmick could have been a strong upper mid-card guy in either WWF or WCW with the right push. Of course he wasn't motivated in WWF as the Dean. Who would be, that was so stupid, plus you had Shawn not wanting to to business and drop the belt, as always. And by the time he got back to WCW, he was way past his prime and was banged up.

But at the right time he would have been perfect for IC / US title level. Much like Jarrett and Triple H when he was the greenwich snob (which is the only period I really like in HHH's career). They can work occasionnal main event, I guess even be surprise transitionnal champs, but they just don't have the *it* factor, at all.

[artDDP]

HHH also in some ways always struck me as someone who you're embarrassed to watch with non-wrestling fans. A long-haired guy wearing denim and leather who looks like a neanderthal is the type of thing people use to make fun of wrestling. People within the wrestling bubble don't always get this, but guys who are that bloated and overly muscular generally turn people off.

Not to mention the ridiculous fake tan with the fashion sense that alternates between ghastly and boring and his obsession with IFBB bodybuilding.

[Strummer]

I don't know Hunter is probably the most over guy with the non/casual fans that I know. They love the guy. Even more so than Cena

 

and yes he was getting help but he was very over a face in the summer of 98 before the knee injury. The reaction he gets at Summerslam 98 when he wins the ladder match is still mind boggling to me

[Bix]

Strummer is right, I was at Summerslam '98 as the pop HHH got for winner was a big as or bigger than the one for Austin's entrance, which are the two loudest pops I've heard live.

[sek69]

What always kills me is how when he's cycling off, he ends up looking dangerously similar to a old time territory fat guy like Killer Tim Brooks or something. You'd think a guy who probably uses bodybuilding mags as stroke material would at least maintain some definition when off cycle.

[jdw]

Strummer is right, I was at Summerslam '98 as the pop HHH got for winner was a big as or bigger than the one for Austin's entrance, which are the two loudest pops I've heard live.

I do wonder how much of it was hit opponent really, really, really coming into his own as a veryy over heel. Rock would take it to the next level after Surivor Series, but that was just three months away.

 

We've all seen faces get pops above the level they usually do when it comes against a heel that's super over with the fans.

 

A lot of us point to the "why" of why Trip cut off so many wrestlers at the knees as being due to his getting passed by three peers that he hadn't seen as peers before they got over huge: Austin, Rock and Mick. I suspect right at that point, Trip thought he once again was the destined superstar rather than Rock, probably buying into that pop as being his. By November, it was pretty clear that not only was Rock ahead, but light years ahead.

 

Again, I always wonder how much of Trip's "high points" through say 2001 are the result of the "other guy" he was involved with, even to a degree Steph.

 

John

[Marty]

Yeah, I credit the pop HHH got at SS98 an awful lot to the Rock, among other things. Not to say HHH didn't do his part, but Rock was really coming into form at another level. I was in university at the time, and friends of mine either liked the Rock or hated him (and those who actually hated him used every poisonous word to describe him, too). There wasn't nearly the same level of discussion for HHH.

 

That match, if memory serves, was built around Rock's side heavily cheating, including Mark Henry's assistance. Don't forget, part of the story was Henry hitting on Chyna, leading to the fanbase begging for Chyna to give Henry his. For the most part, both played the roles fairly well, and I'm no fan of Chyna and this was before Henry probably was coming into his own. That part, Rock's antics and Chyna's good timing (for her, anyway) of her interference of Rock probably contributed to HHH's big pop as much as anything HHH did, if not more.

[rovert]

The Angelic Diablo getting over looked in his own thread.

[Log]

Just to bring this back to Hardy...

 

I don't think he's a main-eventer by any stretch, but dude is certainly over. A few months ago, Smackdown was taped here in Louisville. They sent over Hardy to be on the morning show for the tv station I work for. Now, we don't have a studio audience or anything like that for this show. We didn't even promote that people would be able to meet Hardy or anything. Still, just with us saying a couple of days before that Matt was going to be on the show, people lined up around the block from our place. Mind you, this was at 6 in the morning. I was pretty shocked to hear that. Cena or Batista (or even HHH) I could see. I was surprised at the turnout for Hardy, though.

[kjh]

Yeah, that's part of the reason why I asked the question earlier "If the Internet was around 20 years ago, would we be saying the same thing about Bret Hart"? Matt's appeal as a babyface is similar to Bret's in the late '80s, in the sense that he has a much stronger affinity and resonance with the fans than his push would warrant, and he doesn't fit the mold of the type of guy Vince would normally push. He's certainly someone WWE could have done more with, and probably would have done if he could only keep his mouth shut.

[jdw]

Yeah, I credit the pop HHH got at SS98 an awful lot to the Rock, among other things. Not to say HHH didn't do his part, but Rock was really coming into form at another level. I was in university at the time, and friends of mine either liked the Rock or hated him (and those who actually hated him used every poisonous word to describe him, too). There wasn't nearly the same level of discussion for HHH.

Agreed. Well into the phase where you could see the Rock would outgrow and lap the NOD real fast.

 

 

That match, if memory serves, was built around Rock's side heavily cheating, including Mark Henry's assistance. Don't forget, part of the story was Henry hitting on Chyna, leading to the fanbase begging for Chyna to give Henry his. For the most part, both played the roles fairly well, and I'm no fan of Chyna and this was before Henry probably was coming into his own. That part, Rock's antics and Chyna's good timing (for her, anyway) of her interference of Rock probably contributed to HHH's big pop as much as anything HHH did, if not more.

If I recally correctly, the Chyna-Henry storyline was good non-wrestling stuff. Don't recall if the storyline was peaking here, or later. But I do think Chyna and the NAO were pretty close to their peak around here, and the NOD was at its peak because of Rock. Lotta stuff going into that match.

 

John