Dave Meltzer stuff

[S.L.L.]

Actually you've come to your own wrong conclusion there. If you re-read my post I was talking about people (and different fields, to boot) in general before I mentioned Dave not exactly being a candidate for TIME magazine work.

So....

 

Always been the case though.The fact is, wrestling fans have low / no standards. They will read the poorly written text, they will watch the poorly produced videos... the common thread is people hang around the wrestling business and pretend they do things people do for a living... and fans don't second guess it.There are people who probably think Dave is no different from the editor of TIME.

....the italicized part of the post and the bolded part of the post have no connection to each other? The comment about Dave is a complete non-sequitur that you just happened to toss in after talking about people "pretending" to be real journalists and whatnot? Because that's shitty writing. If you're gonna critcize other people's shitty writing, you should probably at least be able to identify your own. Unless you meant it as some kind of satire of bad wrestling writers, and it just went over my head. Did you mean it as satire? Because that kind of clumsy failure to communicate an idea is actually not out of place in Meltzer's writing. And you do seem to have a Tommy Wisseau parody retcon gimmick going on.

 

Hmmmm. I'll need to give this more thought.

[Guest Andrews]

Answers on previous page.

[S.L.L.]

Answers on previous page.

So, yes, it's a non-sequitur and just shitty writing. Darn.

[JNLister]

From Feb. 19, 1996 Wrestling Observer:

 

As it compares to wrestling wars in previous history and foreign countries, WCW's tactics fall well shy of burning down arenas, paying off local officials to not allow competitors into the arena, kidnapping rival officials at gunpoint and threatening them, setting up rival top babyfaces with underage hookers to get them arrested and all the other wonderful deeds in the rich history of previous generation or international wrestling promotion wars.

What is he referring to exactly? Burning down arenas? Is he being literal? And the rest. . .

 

The Sportatorium in Dallas burned down in 1953 in the middle of a promotional war.

[Bix]

From Feb. 19, 1996 Wrestling Observer:

 

As it compares to wrestling wars in previous history and foreign countries, WCW's tactics fall well shy of burning down arenas, paying off local officials to not allow competitors into the arena, kidnapping rival officials at gunpoint and threatening them, setting up rival top babyfaces with underage hookers to get them arrested and all the other wonderful deeds in the rich history of previous generation or international wrestling promotion wars.

What is he referring to exactly? Burning down arenas? Is he being literal? And the rest. . .

 

The Sportatorium in Dallas burned down in 1953 in the middle of a promotional war.

 

Yup, the first time Ed McLemore tried to break away from Morris Sigel's Houston office. Jack Pfefer was McLemore's booker but left when Sigel sent a mob hitman to the Sportatorium to threaten him.

[KrisZ]

Sad

 

WHO WAS THE GREATEST PRO WRESTLING BOOKER?

 

Paul Heyman 30.6%

 

Vincent Kennedy McMahon 27.5%

 

Giant Baba 12.0%

 

Bill Watts 8.2%

 

Eddie Graham 6.7%

 

Jerry Jarrett 3.4%

 

Gedo & Jado 2.9%

 

Dusty Rhodes 2.4%

 

Vincent James McMahon 2.2%

 

Riki Choshu 1.9%

 

Roy Shire 1.2%

 

Antonio Pena 1.0%

[El-P]

Amazingly ignorant.

 

Paul Heyman 30.6%

 

(...)

 

Riki Choshu 1.9%

Pass the bong.

[Loss]

The only booker on that list to never really turn a profit is the one who won. There you go.

[Sean Liska]

If it's "greatest" according to personal taste, than I think the vote is fine. If it's according to success, then Vince Jr. is the only choice and no one on the list is close.

 

You guys should be more upset about Gedo and Jado ahead of Choshu.

[Death From Above]

The only booker on that list to never really turn a profit is the one who won. There you go.

Proof that he was indeed a tremendous con-artist, if nothing else.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Will, Kris, and I were talking about this last night. Can you really call Vince a booker?

[goodhelmet]

I think I missed that part of the podcast.

 

Anyway, can anyone give proof of Bryan Alvarez actually being funny? I keep reading "at least Bryan is funny" but I never read or hear anything funny from him. What am i missing?

[Bix]

Will, Kris, and I were talking about this last night. Can you really call Vince a booker?

Yes, he has consistently been the head booker of the company for at least 31 years.

 

Pat Patterson really should be on that list, though. Vince had final say, but Patterson was a hell of a lot more than an assistant booker, and you can make the argument that they should be considered as a pair like Jado & Gedo for the time they were working together closely.

[Bix]

I think I missed that part of the podcast.

 

Anyway, can anyone give proof of Bryan Alvarez actually being funny? I keep reading "at least Bryan is funny" but I never read or hear anything funny from him. What am i missing?

Older Bryan & Vinny shows (Orlando Jordan's Time Machine!) and the defunct Flying Mare section of F4W.

[Ricky Jackson]

Will, Kris, and I were talking about this last night. Can you really call Vince a booker?

Vince was the booker, at least for the big picture stuff, during the 80s and most (maybe just half?) of the 90s. At some point in the 90s it seems he decided to let others to do most of the day-to-day booking, but I've never really been sure of the exact timeline, or how much credit Patterson deserves for the 80s/90s stuff, etc. But maybe I'm totally wrong.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I think I missed that part of the podcast.

May have been when you were away for a bit.

 

Huh, I always assumed Vince was the boss and creatively in control but that he had bookers working for him to lay out matches and even decide who wins and who loses.

 

Now that I type that, I guess I'm thinking more of agents. I just always think about stuff like Watts being the boss of Mid South but he had bookers like Dundee and Ladd. Or Fritz being the boss of World Class, but having Hart or Mantell as bookers.

[BrickHithouse]

Vince was the booker, at least for the big picture stuff, during the 80s and most (maybe just half?) of the 90s. At some point in the 90s it seems he decided to let others to do most of the day-to-day booking, but I've never really been sure of the exact timeline, or how much credit Patterson deserves for the 80s/90s stuff, etc. But maybe I'm totally wrong.

This is likely very accurate. Wasn't Bill Watts doing pretty much the same thing in Mid-South? He'd set the direction, but always (or a lot of the time) had a booker on hand like Bill Dundee, Ken Mantel, and whoever else to fill in the gaps.

 

Exactly how much and what was actually booked by Pat Patterson, George Scott, etc, seems difficult to get to the bottom of.

 

(edit - Nevermind, what Johnny says )

[Slasher]

Not that I agree with the poll results either but I think some of you are confusing booker for promoter. Heyman was a terrible businessman and promoter but he's absolutely fine as a booker.

[KrisZ]

I voted for Eddie Graham and the main reason why is he was the Obi-Wan Kenobi of wrestling bookers of the modern era. Pretty much all of the bookers in the south except Memphis learned from him and took his philosophy along with their own ideas and made their territories successful. Plus Eddie ran a dominant territory for over 20 years and a territory that was seen as the gold standard of territories in it's heyday.

[Matt D]

The thing with Watts is that he usually had a guy booking for him and he just cleaned the stuff up.

[KrisZ]

Watts booked a lot though on his own right. He booked Florida & Georgia numerous times along with McGuirk & Mid-South.

[Matt D]

That's true, of course, but how many people out there can be expected to vote on that stuff?

[hammerva]

Given it is the Observer fanbase, I am surprised that Gabe didn't get some votes. Not saying he should by the way

 

I voted for Jerry Jarrett for his long term work of Memphis in the 80's and his resurrection of Texas in 1989 and maybe late 1988. I am not including his early TNA stuff because I don't know if he actually booked TNA in year one.

 

Have no problem with Heyman as a top 3 booker. You have to credit Heyman because he was able to take guys with marginal talent or a terrible look and make them stars albeit just internet stars. Personally I found Heyman booking in OVW for that 6 month period of 2005-2006 I think was his best stuff.

[KrisZ]

I know George Scott's last couple of runs were terrible but he definitely should've been on that list

[Loss]

Not that I agree with the poll results either but I think some of you are confusing booker for promoter. Heyman was a terrible businessman and promoter but he's absolutely fine as a booker.

What was his most successful angle? Who was the biggest star he created?