Dave Meltzer stuff

[Eduardo]

Hasn't he referred to him as Dwayne since the mid-2000s, for the most part? I remember Rock being one of the guys that would usually go on the record in the Observer, most memorably when he talked and was quoted in the newsletter when WWE let his contract expire during the mid-2000s.

[...TG]

You're probably right, but it's just been noticeable on twitter recently.

[Matt D]

I would like to make a motion that we ignore the WON Awards this year. Do I have a second?

[...TG]

I would like to make a motion that we ignore the WON Awards this year. Do I have a second?

Second, as long as you delete "this year".

[Robert S]

I guess it was another year full of UFC dominating pro wrestling categories?

[Ricky Jackson]

Based on the awards, 2016 New Japan should be remembered as the greatest year by a promotion in wrestling history

 

I don't watch, so I have no idea how accurate that statement is

[stro]

I guess it was another year full of UFC dominating pro wrestling categories?

Approximately 70% of all the awards went to Connor McGreggor. Is Dave ever going to change most over/underrated to most over/under pushed, since that's what readers clearly mean by their votes?

[FMKK]

Why there can't be seperate UFC and wrestling categories I don't know. I cringed majorly when Dave was on WOR comparing the McGregor vs Diaz 'feud' to Tanahashi vs Okada as if they're in any way the same thing. He may as well have The Rock as Best Box Office Draw and Trump vs Hillary as feud of the year if anything he writes about can basically just be lumped in together.

[Cox]

 

I guess it was another year full of UFC dominating pro wrestling categories?

Approximately 70% of all the awards went to Connor McGreggor. Is Dave ever going to change most over/underrated to most over/under pushed, since that's what readers clearly mean by their votes?

 

That is actually exactly what Dave intended the awards to be when he created them in the 80's. He doesn't do as good a job at describing the criteria for each award as he used to in the 80's, but that's what this award has always meant to reward/punish, wrestlers who the WON readership felt was either overrated or underrated by the territories that they were working at the time.

[Eduardo]

Meltzer's whole "McGregor is the best talker in the game" schtick is so tiresome. If McGregor was a pro wrestler and be cutting those same promos, he and the promotion would (rightfully) win some "Most Disgusting Promotional Tactic" awards. McGregor can't talk without resorting to tired middle school jokes about sex or insults towards ones ethnicity or race. Miz is lightyears ahead of him. Let's not forget he used this line and UFC used it for commercials for Aldo-McGregor: "If this was a different time, I would invade his favela on horseback, and would kill anyone who wasn't fit to work."

[stro]

I don't even know why MMA guys are included on the list. Draws, sure, but a MMA promo and pro wrestling promo, while at their very essence do the same thing, are entirely different and take entirely different skills. It's easy to be a good promo guy when you have zero restraint, don't have to build up your opponent at all, and only have to cut promos on 2-3 guys per year at the most. Put Connor is a position where he has to cut promos weekly or even monthly and he falls apart instantly. Even if he has to do 2 pressers reasonably close together, he's pretty shot for the 2nd one and just repeats himself.

[hammerva]

MMA guys will always be included on the list because he has convinced himself that most of the people who have WO memberships are doing it for the MMA stuff and not the pro wrestling.

 

My biggest problem isn't Dave because he is at the point in his life where he will only like what he likes. That is why he will tell everyone that everything in New Japan and PWG is the best stuff in the business today. My biggest issue are the sheep voting. I mean how can you say that isn't true when the Young Bucks are tag team of the year and a TV show that isn't in most markets showing clips of New Japan from 6 months ago is the best TV show of the year. I guarantee you that WrestleKingdom on January 4th will be the show of the year in 2017 because Dave told people in the middle of December 2016 that it will be the best show of the year.

[goc]

MMA guys will always be included on the list because he has convinced himself that most of the people who have WO memberships are doing it for the MMA stuff and not the pro wrestling.

If no one was subbing to the WO for MMA stuff then MMA fighters wouldn't be getting a bunch of votes for the year end awards.

[Sean Liska]

Ultimately asking people to compare the promotional value of wrestling vs MMA is the same as asking people to judge Austin-Rock vs. Manning-Brady. It's just stupid. It's stupid to anyone not so deep in the bubble. But it's Dave's awards so he can keep asking people to compare Broadway to dudes in real sports trying to beat each other. And the results will look stupid because it's dumb criteria. How did Austin at his peak compare to Michael Jordan? How do their promos compare? Did Austin send people home as happy as Jordan? Was the Thesz press as good as Jordan's fadeaway? Was an NBA on TNT Thursay night rating as impressive as Raw's number?

[Loss]

The comparisons should stop at Vince McMahon and Dana White.

[rzombie1988]

PRIDE/K-1 at their peaks were better than both. People like Fedor and Crocop were the last real guys who felt larger than life to me.

[stro]

The comparisons should stop at Vince McMahon and Dana White.

Dana is more of a real life Mr. McMahon than Vince himself is, so I don't understand what this means. Literally a few hours ago he chastised a fighter for not calling him/UFC first before being taken to the hospital near death from cutting weight, because if he had called, Dana could have saved the fight.

[Loss]

They are both promoters. They have the same goals. Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

[stro]

They are both promoters. They have the same goals. Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

Comparing Vince/Dana isn't the same thing as comparing wrestlers and fighters. Now that I look at it, I think I misread what you meant by stopping the comparisons at Vince/Dana. Dana is the ultimate scumbag promoter, though. Vince wishes he was as much as a real life heel as Dana.

[El McKell]

Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

I firmly believe that wrestlers and fighters have roughly the same goals when it comes to the categories they're voted on together: best on interviews, biggest draw, most charismatic. There are separate awards for Fighter/Wrestler of the year, most outstanding and best match because when they step into the ring/cage they have totally different jobs. The job they have outside of that are largely very similar.

[Eduardo]

If we were to go along with this idea, Floyd Mayweather Jr. or Manny Pacquiao should have won "Best Draw" for many years.

[Matt D]

 

 

Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

I firmly believe that wrestlers and fighters have roughly the same goals when it comes to the categories they're voted on together: best on interviews, biggest draw, most charismatic. There are separate awards for Fighter/Wrestler of the year, most outstanding and best match because when they step into the ring/cage they have totally different jobs. The job they have outside of that are largely very similar.

Would a fighter really play a character in the middle of a fight? Charisma is a performance tool for wrestlers telling a story in the ring as well. It's not just on promos.

[Robert S]

 

 

Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

I firmly believe that wrestlers and fighters have roughly the same goals when it comes to the categories they're voted on together: best on interviews, biggest draw, most charismatic. There are separate awards for Fighter/Wrestler of the year, most outstanding and best match because when they step into the ring/cage they have totally different jobs. The job they have outside of that are largely very similar.

Would a fighter really play a character in the middle of a fight?

 

Have you ever seen the Stalker Ichikawa MMA fight?

[Loss]

Do they have a responsibility to get over their opponents in their promos and not hit on obvious weaknesses? Do they have a responsibility to get the other guy more over if that's what is best for business and the promoter wants to build around that guy?

[sek69]

 

They are both promoters. They have the same goals. Wrestlers and fighters don't have the same goals. What's not to understand?

Comparing Vince/Dana isn't the same thing as comparing wrestlers and fighters. Now that I look at it, I think I misread what you meant by stopping the comparisons at Vince/Dana. Dana is the ultimate scumbag promoter, though. Vince wishes he was as much as a real life heel as Dana.

 

 

 

I'm almost 100% positive I read that Dana has said Vince was pretty much the road map he followed for UFC.

 

Not to mention even without going down the "internet geek psychoanalyzes Vince" rabbit hole, the stuff on the record puts Vince far ahead in the real life heel category.