Dave Meltzer stuff

[Loss]

Dummy? Dave would have never called someone a dummy in an argument even two years ago.

[Bix]

I blame rovert.

[jdw]

"big fight feel"?

 

"This has playoff atmosphere."

-NFL/NBA/MLB/NCAA announcer on regular season telecast

 

Sports = Pro Wrestling

 

Where Dave is confused is that Pro Wrestling has been lifting things from sports forever. So the line is there. It's not sports, including MMA, that are Pro Wrestling. It's pro wrestling over the years trying to be sporty.

 

"Is Brooklyn still in the league?"

-Bill Terry cutting a pro wrestling promo on the Dodgers back in the 30s

 

Or so Dave would have said in the WON in the 30s:

 

"Bill Terry knows that you need to cut promos to draw a crowd in baseball."

 

Or some such nonsense.

 

John

[KrisZ]

Could you imagine Dave talking about Leo Durocher

[Johnny Sorrow]

Could you imagine Dave talking about Leo Durocher

Or Yogi Berra? "Despite Berra's skills, his persona of being stupid will limit how far he can get over".

[kjh]

Dave Meltzer on Jake Shields and how UFC shouldn't let him fight on TV or live PPV:

 

They'd better match him with a good stand-up fighter with no takedown defense or submission defense. At least then you know the match will be over quickly. If not, there is a lesson already out there about putting him on live TV.

Honestly, the less they show of him the better. You showcase people to their strengths and hide their weaknesses. You look at that for every person and then expose them accordingly. Either a guy with no sub defense and takedown defense, or hide him on the undercards where nobody can see him except the local ticket buyers, preferably on a Vegas show where nobody shows up until late. Having people sleep through Jon Fitch fights does less to make them want to see him against GSP again. However, if they never saw those fights, and marketed a 15 fight winning streak and had people talk him up, they wouldn't know enough to not want to see him.

 

they should talk about his win streak, have other fighters talk about him, never air him on television (unless they sign Melvin Manhoef) and show him training. The thing is, GSP will get him over on promos but if people actually saw him fight, they won't believe GSP when he talks about what a threat he is.

I mean WOW.

 

Dave Meltzer on Spike TV's growing impatience with TNA:

 

Where is this new investor you speak of? Spike is the people who are pressuring Dixie to sign Heyman. Obviously they aren't thrilled with how things are going. They were expecting 1.5 from day one rising to 2.0 ratings with Hogan & Flair & Hardy. A 1.0 or 1.1 on a show that sells ads at the level of a show that does 0.5 and that reruns of Unleashed equal in the target demo isn't a big hit. They like the idea of wrestling but they aren't married to it. Their quick time slot changes with no warning this year show their impatience.

Nitro was doing 2.1 to 2.4 ratings when the plug was pulled.

"Ruh roh".

[Eduardo]

Meltzer's take on Jake Shields is mind boggling.

[jdw]

Could you imagine Dave talking about Leo Durocher

"Charlie Finely is a real life Mr. McMahon."

 

"Watching Bowie Kuhn be the comish of baseball is like watching Jim Herd run WCW."

 

"Pete Rozzel understands that football is pro wrestling."

 

"Lots of people don't like him, but no one draws heel heat like Howard Cossell. Roon Arlidge understands that Howard cutting promos is what draws ratings for MNF when they have poor match ups."

 

John

[KrisZ]

Think about the 3 way feud with Steinbrenner vs. Billy Martin vs. Reggie in 1978 and how that would've been handled.

[jdw]

 

"People who don't realize that Steinbrenner and the Yankees are copying

Vince McMahon and the WWE just don't have a clue on what baseball is

all about these days. It's all about getting the tabloids to put you on the

backpage and the fans to talk about you. Fans don't go to Yankees games

because the Bombers won back-to-back World Series. They go because

Reggie is a larger than life superstar, Martin is a super over babyface, and

The Boss is the biggest heel in baseball since Hal Chase. What people forget

is that Hal Chase never was over to anyone but hardcore baseball fans. It

didn't matter how many games he threw, or how involved in the Black Sox Fix

he was. All that matter was that Chsse couldn't cut a promo if his life depended

on it. You can't be a top heel without cutting heel promos and making the

fans hate you. He may be a legend with hardcore fans, but he never sold a ticket.

McMahon knows that, and people inside the Yankees front office tell me that

Steinbrenner knows."

 

 

John

[sek69]

Wait, Spike is pushing TNA to hire Heyman? I thought they had a messy breakup over Heyman mocking them on ECW TV back when they were on the Nashville Network.

[rovert]

Wait, Spike is pushing TNA to hire Heyman? I thought they had a messy breakup over Heyman mocking them on ECW TV back when they were on the Nashville Network.

It is the television biz the management must have turned over in 10 years either that or they are that desperate. Interesting question though.

[Bix]

Y'know, it's probably not a very good idea for a shoot interview DVD carrying the Observer name to have bootlegged Japan & Puerto Rico footage on it. I wonder if that will be on the retail version...

[rovert]

Y'know, it's probably not a very good idea for a shoot interview DVD carrying the Observer name to have bootlegged Japan & Puerto Rico footage on it. I wonder if that will be on the retail version...

But they went through Carlos Colon for the footage, didnt they?

[Bix]

I dunno, but there's no way they cleared the Japanese stuff with the TV networks that own it.

[rovert]

I dunno, but there's no way they cleared the Japanese stuff with the TV networks that own it.

Im just going by what The Cancer said.

[Ditch]

I guess, but the Japanese really could give a crap unless they're trying to make money. They somewhat police youtube (which has reach in Japan) but let Highspots and RF Video operate. PRIDE shut down Zero-One tape selling at one point but that was ages ago. All Japan Classics footage is probably near the bottom of NTV's priority list.

[Bix]

DSE sued RF and got a huge judgment.

 

Who is The Cancer and how did he set up this deal, anyway?

[rovert]

Who is The Cancer and how did he set up this deal, anyway?

A fairly successful Atlanta based record producer real name Cedric Moore: http://www.myspace.com/reallionaire

 

He didnt go into details beside what I already said. He is long time F4W member and kind of started the blogtalkradio craze over there.

[Johnny Sorrow]

 

"People who don't realize that Steinbrenner and the Yankees are copying

Vince McMahon and the WWE just don't have a clue on what baseball is

all about these days. It's all about getting the tabloids to put you on the

backpage and the fans to talk about you. Fans don't go to Yankees games

because the Bombers won back-to-back World Series. They go because

Reggie is a larger than life superstar, Martin is a super over babyface, and

The Boss is the biggest heel in baseball since Hal Chase. What people forget

is that Hal Chase never was over to anyone but hardcore baseball fans. It

didn't matter how many games he threw, or how involved in the Black Sox Fix

he was. All that matter was that Chsse couldn't cut a promo if his life depended

on it. You can't be a top heel without cutting heel promos and making the

fans hate you. He may be a legend with hardcore fans, but he never sold a ticket.

McMahon knows that, and people inside the Yankees front office tell me that

Steinbrenner knows."

 

 

 

 

John

 

Bravo, sir.

[Indikator]

In the end I guess it doesn't end with Dana and Vince - or even Jack Pfefer and the Gold Dust Trio. You have to go straight back to PT Barnum. Abyss isn't a Mankind clone but rather a Maurice Tillet clone (or whoever did the act before him) but that doesn't change the fact, that Tillet was pretty much a carnival freak show character who fought.

 

I hate the Russo/McMahon/Dana talking points on the web. Watch different promotions from different eras and notice the different styles, target groups and promotional tactics. There is not one single philosophy (promoting, booking, wrestling) that everybody should use by copying the great XYZ.

[Marty]

John's Hal Chase post is awesome. Only thing that might top it is discussing how Tiger Woods went from stale babyface who was very successful consistently in tournaments to cheating, dishonest heel who's average at best now. The game may have gone down, but the character is much more interesting, so the turn was needed.

[Bix]

Irv praises Keith and me while slamming Dave again.

[rovert]

Irv praises Keith and me while slamming Dave again.

"Dissidents" makes you sound like terrorists.

 

Anyway congrats on getting recognised in this way by an award winning journalist, guys. You have been doing some really good original work recently with this story, the Chavo concussion article etc.

[Johnny Sorrow]

From the latest Classic Observer dated 5/10/1993:

 

"Col. Robert Parker (Robert Fuller) debuted doing an interview in the role of a heel wrestling promoter, claiming to be kin to Col. Tom Parker (Elvis Presley's manager). When I was a very young child in the 60s, I always thought The Beatles were way bigger than Elvis, but now in the 90s I've learned I was wrong. 20 years after his death, Elvis is still being used in wrestling angles while nobody in wrestling ever mentions The Beatles. "