MikeCampbell Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 I don't think it's really a ban on ROH talent working EVOLVE. Why would they pull Davey, but not have a problem if Hero, Claudio, O'Reilly, and Homicide work there? Granted, Homicide isn't under contract (that I know of) but he returned to ROH and put right into a central angle, so I don't see them *not* locking him in. What sounds more likely to me, given Gabe's history of tantrum throwing, is that Gabe blew a gasket when Davey chose to re-up his ROH contract. The fallout from their argument (either mutually or Davey on his own) was that Davey was done working for EVOLVE and Gabe. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 Didn't Gabe have a meltdown when Richards signed with ROH? I seem to recall him referring to him only as Wesley (SHOOT NAMES WERE UTTERED~!) and much bawwww-ing over Davey being the guy EVOLVE would be built around until he decided he'd rather work for a company that can actually draw. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Liska Posted September 26, 2010 Report Share Posted September 26, 2010 I'm pretty sure Davey pulled out of some dates for whatever reason. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 This is what I wrote at the time about the Richards/Sapolsky split: http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/2/10/130...crews-over-gabe Speaking of Sapolsky, the story that his Dragon Gate USA show tonight almost had to be ran without a wrestling ring makes the company look so bush league: http://www.cagesideseats.com/2010/9/26/171...n-gate-usa-show Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 What's even funnier to me than the idea of them running without a ring, was the reason behind it. That the guy who they were getting the ring from got beat up outside a club the night before. Is the indy scene turning into 1980's New Japan, with the mob being involved? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 Lock the Dragon Gate next time! DG ran a show in Japan without the ring before didnt they? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 DG ran a show in Japan without the ring before didnt they?Yes, at Korakuen because the ring they got from the US was busted. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 That the guy who they were getting the ring from got beat up outside a club the night before. Apparently the guy in question was Larry Sweeney. I mean entrusting your ring to Sweeney is just asking for trouble. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If the guy in question is Larry Sweeney, I'm not putting it past him that he sold the ring and beat himself up to make it look good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 27, 2010 Report Share Posted September 27, 2010 If the guy in question is Larry Sweeney, I'm not putting it past him that he sold the ring and beat himself up to make it look good. Larry and Cary are good friends apparently too. The plot thickens. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuttsy Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 In the El Gigante biography, Dave makes several references to Bill Alfonzo being the manager of Giant Gonzalez for the first several months of his WWF tenure, and after Gonzalez turned on Alfonzo at WrestleMania in Las Vegas, Gonzalez takes Harvey Whippleman as his new manager. I am preeeetty sure this NEVER happened. A mistake from Meltzer that would have been THAT easy to correct just really rubs me the wrong way for some reason. Seriously, just pull up the clip of Gonzalez's debut at the Royal Rumble on YouTube, watch it for 5 seconds and see Whippleman RIGHT THERE WITH HIM. And this guy is the best wrestling journalist we have? Could he possibly give a fuck less about wrestling at this point? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Slickster Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Dave addressed the error on the F4W forums: "I was wrong. Alfonso was his real-life manager in WCW and in the beginning in WWF, but Wippleman was the TV manager at the start and shortly after his WWF start. Alfonso was the guy who took care of him for most of his U.S. run." Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stuttsy Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 yeah, I mean, that's cool that he corrected himself, but, I just felt it was a pretty lame mistake to make to begin with. Alfonzo never managed in WWF, was a referee until ECW, Gonzalez was with Whippleman from day one on camera... he covered all this stuff while it was happening. Maybe I am jumping to a conclusion but it just screams to me how little he cares about wrestling these days to screw up stuff like that, that everybody saw, ya know? Its not like we're talking about random Knoxville TV from 1982 that there's little record of. Its like when people ask about the wrong shows on shoot interviews, like "what are your memories of wrestling Jeff Jarrett at Summerslam 98" when they wrestled Val Venis at Summerslam 98. I get very frustrated because it's 2010. Google takes 5 seconds to check facts. It just makes the operation seem unprofessional to me. Or I may be overreacting. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Not like he has 1993 back issues on the site or anything... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 Listening to Bryan and Dave review Cerrone vs. Varner is a blast. We start off with the fight inspiring Bryan to talk about how ridiculous it was for Hunter and Orton to start their WrestleMania main event two years ago by locking up. Later Dave added this money quote: It was like these guys with no script managed to script something better than anything that's been scripted you know for the most part in a long time. Then Dave goes and criticises Rashad Evans for winning a points fight after doing such a great hype job for his match with Quinton Jackson. Then they talk about Varner needing to embrace his inner heel with Bryan even calling him a pussy for having his feelings hurt that the fans really hate him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 The Gonzalez turning on Alfonzo story is odd. Maybe someone he talked to about Gonzalez had a dodgy memory about that time period. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 1, 2010 Report Share Posted October 1, 2010 The strangest part wasn't even Alfonzo managing Gonzalez. That's an honest mistake, as Alfonzo basically took care of Gonzalez on the road, and he can probably be forgiven for conflating the two. The weird part was imagining a turn that happened at a Wrestlemania that never happened. I mean, where did that even come from? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Gonzalez did chokeslam referee Bill Alphonso at WrestleMania 9. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
artDDP Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Something struck me while watching the Quebecers vs. Razor Ramon and 1-2-3 Kid match on the Raw DVD set. Referee Bill Alfonso just sort of stands there during most of the match, televised live, and does a horrible job selling the various tag team interference spots and Vince seems to be livid with his performance while remaining in character. At various points Vince is decrying "this official" for allowing so much to occur right in front of him. Did Alfonso suddenly vanish from the WWF sometime around WrestleMania X? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 Gonzalez did chokeslam referee Bill Alphonso at WrestleMania 9.So somehow, Dave remembered enough about Gonzalez that he chokeslammed Fonzie at Wrestlemania IX, but not enough to remember that Fonzie was the referee, not the manager, in that match? If anything, that makes that whole passage look even stranger. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 In regard to Benoit & Guererro specifically having to use steroids to get jobs with the major companies, I wouldn't have written their names in specific without proof (but did many times starting with Dynamite & Davey in the 80s) since Dynamite was open about it. I've constanty written about the situation of talented guys not being looked at when they were tearing it up and getting over worldwide, and then needing to go heavy on the juice to even get a look from the big promotions. Whether that's Benoit, Guerrero, Mysterio, Art Barr, or whomever, the idea I never covered good workers having to get on steroids or using steroids is a fallacy. Raven is mad and he and I have had the discussion. He believes he should have been pushed ahead of Benoit in WWF because in his mind he was the better worker, talker and storyteller. Instead, he was a job guy and they made Benoit world champion. He was even more resentful of Malenko because he said all the boys thought Malenko was a terrible worker, and was over with everyone only because the Internet said he was a good worker. Except everyone else I talked with said Malenko was an awesome worker, just too small and dry to get past a certain level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 2, 2010 Report Share Posted October 2, 2010 More from Dave about Jamie Varner disliking being hated by MMA fans: Nope, but everyone's window of opportunity to be a star is limited and if you don't get business, you'll never maximize it. There is a reason fighters who get it make far more money than fighters with more talent that don't. That may be horrendously painful to some, but that dooms them also not to get it. You miss the point. It's understanding the business you work in. People in UFC emphasize this to fighters. Managers who get it emphasize this to fighters. The biggest frustrations I hear from people working in UFC is about how fighters (guys who can be stars) can't let go of their amateur wrestling roots and become stars. In Indy, I heard it over and over because of Frankie Edgar beating Penn twice and they can't help Frankie become the star the lightweight champion needs to be because Frankie can't get out of the amateur wrestling mentality. That's not copying pro wrestling, although it's an attitude that would also exist in pro wrestling. The mentality of not wanting to be booed when you are clearly not the crowd favorite, least of all going into somebody's home town you have a grudge with, is not understanding the business you are in. Did I tell him to go overboard on it, or cut pro wrestling promos. Of course not. I didn't even suggest being fake and saying things you don't believe. But I do suggest learning the business and just basically getting the business you are in. It's actually one of the biggest things talked about within UFC and Strikeforce at a management level. It may be the single biggest frustration of management with certain fighters is their inability to see the big picture and thinking it's all about winning. It's about maximizing your star power and building interest in yourself and your fight. If you are not interested as a main eventer in your business interests, then you only understand half of the sport. If you go into somebody's home town, or get booed because fans like the other guy and you don't get it, then you don't get your business. It's a big problem with amateur wrestlers who come into MMA because they have a mentality taught by performring in a sport where only family and best friends attend and are moving to a sport where a big part of success and failure depends on being both able to win your fights, able to entertain in your fights, but most of all, able to win enough while being able to connect with lots of people who don't know you. I was there when Mike Brown was complaing to Jens Pulver after he fought Faber in Sacramento and got booed and said the people were saying mean things about me, why did they do it. Pulver didn't say, watch pro wrestling, he told him, "Don't you get it. The booing is good. It means they care." And he asked him what do you expect. If players on the Padres last night who were yelled at and called personal names after the game went back and cried to the media about fans name calling, the reaction would be how did they ever get to the major leagues not figuring out that when you're in a pennant race and go to the other team's home stadium, that maybe the crowd will boo you and call you names? The main reason people care about Varner in the first place is because they see him as the guy who always complains about being booed, which is good because more people think you're a whiner and a crybaby that way. The ironic part is that unlike Josh Koscheck, who knows exactly what he's doing and why, and laughs about it (and he never set out to be a heel, but when that was the role he ended up in, he made the best of it), and has become a bigger star because of it, Varner actually is hurt by it. Maybe Dana needs to start handing out best post match promo bonuses then to go with the best fight bonuses he gives. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 Dave can't get it through his head that not all of these guys watched pro wrestling as a kid or whenever and actually care about what the fans think. Does it help the fighters if they can be entertaining on the mic...sure but guys like Frankie Edgar who are talented as fuck and win their fights can't be held back because they are vanilla on the mic. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 More from Dave: He does for main eventers already. They are called percentages of revenue bonuses when you are a star that draws money. Let me explain the other part of the point to those "it's not about money" reactions. The same fighters who don't understand, eight or nine times out of ten are the ones complaining because they aren't making as much money as guys who they have better records then. One former champion cried about it so much UFC couldn't wait to get rid of him because he couldn't draw, didn't get why even though he was told over and over why, only understood he won his fights, complained the lack of reaction to him was because fans were stupid, and kept complaining about what others were making as compared to him. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Grimmas Posted October 3, 2010 Report Share Posted October 3, 2010 More from Dave: He does for main eventers already. They are called percentages of revenue bonuses when you are a star that draws money. Let me explain the other part of the point to those "it's not about money" reactions. The same fighters who don't understand, eight or nine times out of ten are the ones complaining because they aren't making as much money as guys who they have better records then. One former champion cried about it so much UFC couldn't wait to get rid of him because he couldn't draw, didn't get why even though he was told over and over why, only understood he won his fights, complained the lack of reaction to him was because fans were stupid, and kept complaining about what others were making as compared to him. Tim Sylvia? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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