Dave Meltzer stuff

[kjh]

When Dave posts in a thread, it's kind of like when Linda McMahon would appear on WWE television: you knew it was something significant from an authority who was 'above the fray.'

In the past on Wrestling Classics this was certainly true, but that isn't really the case anymore. He's certainly not 'above the fray' on the f4w board.

[Bix]

I know this seems like a fairly small nit to pick, but as someone who is of Irish descent, Northern Ireland is still part of the island of Ireland.

 

On top of that, while it is technically part of Great Britain, and people from Belfast are technically British, do not ever tell them that.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Troubles

Or, for an oversimplified version,

.

 

Maybe billing him from "Belfast, Ireland" is too simplistic

He actually was billed as being from "Belfast, Northern Ireland".

Actually, for much (if not all) of his WWE run, they said "Belfast, Ireland."

[Sean Liska]

When Dave posts in a thread, it's kind of like when Linda McMahon would appear on WWE television: you knew it was something significant from an authority who was 'above the fray.'

In the past on Wrestling Classics this was certainly true, but that isn't really the case anymore. He's certainly not 'above the fray' on the f4w board.

 

It's too bad most of his time is spent battling with obvious trolls. I wish they would start a new Observer forum and plug it in the newsletter, instead of it being a continuation of the F4W one. I guess the end result would probably be the same, but I always thought an Observer forum would be pretty cool. I can only handle the current one by having about 27 people on my foe list.

[sek69]

When Dave posts in a thread, it's kind of like when Linda McMahon would appear on WWE television: you knew it was something significant from an authority who was 'above the fray.'

In the past on Wrestling Classics this was certainly true, but that isn't really the case anymore. He's certainly not 'above the fray' on the f4w board.

 

It's too bad most of his time is spent battling with obvious trolls. I wish they would start a new Observer forum and plug it in the newsletter, instead of it being a continuation of the F4W one. I guess the end result would probably be the same, but I always thought an Observer forum would be pretty cool. I can only handle the current one by having about 27 people on my foe list.

 

 

I've only been on the board a few times, and there's definitely some trolls afoot, but it doesn't help that Bryan doesn't seem to be able to handle criticism AT ALL. Even during episodes of Observer Live if Dave tries to correct him on something, Bryan will try to no-sell it as long as possible before Dave usually has to cut him off in order to say what he's trying to say. It sort of sets the tone of a forum when one of the people in charge is more or less antagonistic towards the group in large.

[cabinboy454]

After Poitier won in 1963, no black actor won an Academy Award until 2001, so movies haven't been too much better than WWE in recognizing people of color.

This is incorrect, Louis Gossett, Jr and Denzel Washington won Best Supporting Actor Academy Awards in 1982 for An Officer and A Gentlemen (Gossett, Jr.) and 1989 for Glory (Washington). In addition, Whoopi Goldberg won a Best Supporting Actress Academy Award in 1990 for Ghost. What you meant to say was that no black actor won a Leading Actor Academy Award until 2001.

[Bix]

When Dave posts in a thread, it's kind of like when Linda McMahon would appear on WWE television: you knew it was something significant from an authority who was 'above the fray.'

In the past on Wrestling Classics this was certainly true, but that isn't really the case anymore. He's certainly not 'above the fray' on the f4w board.

 

It's too bad most of his time is spent battling with obvious trolls. I wish they would start a new Observer forum and plug it in the newsletter, instead of it being a continuation of the F4W one. I guess the end result would probably be the same, but I always thought an Observer forum would be pretty cool. I can only handle the current one by having about 27 people on my foe list.

 

 

I've only been on the board a few times, and there's definitely some trolls afoot, but it doesn't help that Bryan doesn't seem to be able to handle criticism AT ALL. Even during episodes of Observer Live if Dave tries to correct him on something, Bryan will try to no-sell it as long as possible before Dave usually has to cut him off in order to say what he's trying to say. It sort of sets the tone of a forum when one of the people in charge is more or less antagonistic towards the group in large.

 

[tomk]

Mark Henry, David Otunga, MVP (he originally at least was a spoiled athlete gimmick), even Alicia Fox....none of them have a ethnically based gimmick.

 

From Sep 27th Observer

 

Shelton Benjamin, who hardly as a rep for speaking out, wrote, “WWE wanted me to a fill a black niche is my guess, for example R-Truth = rapper, MVP = baller, Crime Tyme = thugs/criminals. I’m a college educated athlete. I don’t fill any niche other than being a college blue chipper.” .

[Tim Evans]

The only non white wrestler I can think of who's gimmick is based on their ethnicity would be R-Truth doing the "white guy's idea of how a rapper acts" gimmick. WWE has really toned down the ethnically based gimmicks as of late, the only one I would think comes even close is Alberto Del Rio being a Mexican JBL, but it's more a rich guy gimmick with a guy who happens to be Mexican instead of the opposite like it usually is.

What about Yoshi Tatsu? Or Santino even though I don't think he's Italian.

[Jingus]

grumpy french guy minute

Realistically, I know that Paris is probably like any other major city: big and crowded and dirty. I didn't seriously expect it to look like a Jean-Pierre Jeunet film. I just wish there was somewhere on earth which did look like that.

 

He actually was billed as being from "Belfast, Northern Ireland".

Actually, for much (if not all) of his WWE run, they said "Belfast, Ireland."

Yeah. The WWE frequently seems like they don't give a shit about foreign geography. Like in some of their recent British tours, where they sometimes don't even bother to specify which city they're in.

 

Shelton Benjamin, who hardly as a rep for speaking out, wrote, “WWE wanted me to a fill a black niche is my guess, for example R-Truth = rapper, MVP = baller, Crime Tyme = thugs/criminals. I’m a college educated athlete. I don’t fill any niche other than being a college blue chipper.” .

Even with Shelton, they fucked with him a little bit here and there. The most obvious is probably when they gave him a Big Fat Momma who hit people with her purse and had "oh lawd a-mighty" type dialogue, like someone straight out of a Tyler Perry flick. For a while they also did the "LOL it's so quirky to have a black guy with blonde hair" deal, although obviously they didn't push it quite as blatantly as they did back in the Butch Reed days. And he feuded with Kerwin White before the plug was pulled on that gimmick, 'nuff said right there. He was probably saved from even worse treatment just by his gimmick: the whole Team Angle deal established him as a credible college-educated athlete, so they couldn't just turn around and make him into a street thug.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I never got the whole "Cryme Tyme is racist" deal. Cryme Tyme was Homeboy Shopping Network from "In Living Color". And Cryme Tyme was dopey. And it's not as if the WWE was/is the only TV to make heroes out of negative Black stereotypes. BET is far worse.

If they had been heels and the commentators were upset over those thieving black men, then ok.

[sek69]

The only non white wrestler I can think of who's gimmick is based on their ethnicity would be R-Truth doing the "white guy's idea of how a rapper acts" gimmick. WWE has really toned down the ethnically based gimmicks as of late, the only one I would think comes even close is Alberto Del Rio being a Mexican JBL, but it's more a rich guy gimmick with a guy who happens to be Mexican instead of the opposite like it usually is.

What about Yoshi Tatsu? Or Santino even though I don't think he's Italian.

 

 

Tatsu doesn't seem too ethnic other than his Generic Asian Guy theme music, and I'm pretty sure Santino is of Italian descent. Plus Santino's gimmick has pretty much been "random dude who got picked out of the crowd during a show in Italy and somehow managed to win the IC title despite not being a wrestler". If you go all the way back to his debut, he's been pushed as a non wrestler in a wrestler's role.

 

Also, Cryme Tyme was undoubtedly racist, but it was racist in a way that it was too over the top to be taken seriously. The intro vignettes of them with white women was like a million times more offensive because it was being presented more like them being scary black guys stealin' yo women.

 

As far as Shelton goes, I always thought JR speaking in code with stuff like "best pure athlete in the WWE" came across as a way of them saying "LOOK, A BLACK GUY" more than all the Shelton's mama stuff just because it seemed to be more the kind of thing older white guys (ie: Vince and the creative team) don't realize sound racist to other people.

[sek69]

I guess my point here is that while Vince shouldn't expect to get an NAACP Image Award any time soon, WWE has done better in terms of ethnic stereotypes in recent years. Sure, it's probably more economically motivated than any sense of human decency, but sometimes you just have to accept right things done even if it's for the wrong reasons.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Dave 's quick recap of Carpentier's career on the radio was great. I expect a really interesting write-up/ obit.

[El-P]

Dave 's quick recap of Carpentier's career on the radio was great. I expect a really interesting write-up/ obit.

I want to hear this !

[kjh]

Dave on TNA's financial situation:

 

Vince lost $58 million I believe on the XFL ($116 million in losses, NBC was 50% owners and also lost $58 million on the project).

 

TNA as of May had lost $45 million.

 

Not sure how wealthy Bob Carter is, but he can afford these losses, but he's absolutely not happy about these losses.

 

If you're rich and super into acquiring wealth, but also married and have kids and they drive you crazy, all business sense can go out the window.

 

In this sense, the Linda senate run and TNA from a psychological standpoint probably have a ton in common.

[Ditch]

$45m this year or in total?

[El-P]

Controvery creates cash.

Or not.

Sometime somewhere, Mr. Carter will pull the plug, I don't see why this thing is still going on.

[El-P]

Dave 's quick recap of Carpentier's career on the radio was great. I expect a really interesting write-up/ obit.

Yep. I listened to it. The thing I never knew is that Eddie was such a big star in his days. It's a huge news in Montreal apparently.

[Al]

It's odd that Carpentier is such an overlooked legend. He was certainly one of the biggest stars of the 1950s. I suspect casual fans might tend to mix him up with Antonino Rocca.

[S.L.L.]

Maybe billing him from "Belfast, Ireland" is too simplistic

He actually was billed as being from "Belfast, Northern Ireland".

Actually, for much (if not all) of his WWE run, they said "Belfast, Ireland."

 

Was he really? I could have sworn otherwise.

 

I never got the whole "Cryme Tyme is racist" deal. Cryme Tyme was Homeboy Shopping Network from "In Living Color". And Cryme Tyme was dopey. And it's not as if the WWE was/is the only TV to make heroes out of negative Black stereotypes. BET is far worse.

If they had been heels and the commentators were upset over those thieving black men, then ok.

FWIW, this was the statement released on WWE.com prior to their debut:

 

Tonight a new tag team, Cryme Tyme, will be introduced to the RAW audience. In an effort to humor and entertain our fans the tag team known as Cryme Tyme will be parodying racial stereotypes.

 

Shad Gaspard and JTG do outlandish, outrageous "stunts" to ready themselves for tag team action on RAW. This attempt at Saturday Night Live like humor is bound to entertain audiences of all ethnic derivations.

 

We hope you enjoy the weekly adventures of Cryme Tyme.

Make of that what you will.

[sek69]

By the way, TNAnonyomous is back on Twitter. They're stating that their contract ended last month and they are working on a per appearance deal, and whoever it is feels free to speak again because they were offered a gig as a trainer somewhere and no longer needs TNA. The gist of what he's been tweeting about is that Dixie has let the old folks take over and now young talent realizes there's no place in the company for anyone who isn't over 40 and was a star 15 years ago.

[jdw]

I also find it interesting how Meltzer, Alvarez, and Keller - a (presumed) Jewish man, a half-Mexican man, and an openly gay man - are all leading journalists in the wrestling industry - an industry that has at various times traded on negative stereotypes of these groups to draw heat.

My recollection is that Dave was pretty non-religious. May have changed in the past decade.

 

John

[jdw]

Question: Meltzer completely destroyed the old lie about 93000 in the Silverdome, right? I'm arguing with some idiot at some other board who completely refuses to believe that the WWE might have, gasp, lied about something. Anyone got any handy sources on that matter?

http://wrestlingclassics.com/.ubb/ultimate...7260;p=1#000002

 

The source is Dave Meltzer's firsthand conversation with Zane Bresloff about the situation, so this person might say 'WHAT IF DAEV IS LYEING?'

 

The problem with the number that Dave uses as an alternative is that it doesn't line up with the photos. There are numbers for what the Lions and the NFL (for Super Bowl XVI) put into the building when it was sold out in that era. The Super Bowl did a claimed attendance of 81,270. The Lions and the NFL don't have people on the field during games. The WWF did.

 

I commented in one of the various WC thread on WMIII:

 

Use Mr. Searchy to look for other threads on this. A1Wrestling.com also has a thread or two on this as well.

 

The only way there are 78,000 people in the building for Mania is if:

 

(i) the picture is totally doctored, or

 

(ii) the Dome holds far, far, far less than 80,000 for football, or

 

(iii) that somehow thousands of people can sit on the field during a football game to boost attendance.

 

I don't buy the 93,000 number. But I also don't buy the 78,000 number either. Somewhere inbetween, unless someone can account for an attendence of 3100 less than the NFL got in the building when there weren't thousands of fans sitting on the Football Field.

 

John

78K is a bad number for how many were in the building. Just not possible at all.

 

I also think that Dave has reported several times that all the tickets were sold. So it's not like there were several thousand empty seats not seen in the various photos of the even.

 

Its possible that Dave's earlier reporting on the place being "sold out" was incorrect, and what the 78K represents is the WWF's "paid". Or it's possible that the WWF gave away a lot of tickets to folks locally to get the event, and the 78K represents the number of tickets that meant something to the WWF in terms of attendance. But 78K in the building is low.

 

John

[Bix]

I'm pretty sure that Dave has said at one point or another that the Lions and Super Bowl attendance figures were worked.

[Dylan Waco]

Dave has said that but he has no knowledge of it and even if they were worked it is highly highly unlikely they were worked by near the margin that would be needed to explain the huge disparity. The "my source died and took the evidence with him" line of reasoning would be viewed critically in any other line of journalism and ought to be here.