Dave Meltzer stuff

[sek69]

Anyone else listen to last night's WON radio and get a kick out of Dave's HHH impression? Apparently "it's not believable" is the go to line for him like saying "goddammit" is for a Vince impression.

[Jesse Ewiak]

With the recent Observer putting out the idea they want to make Lana the #1 female in the company, I want to get the theory that Dylan had a few reaction shows back about the 'SHIMMER/indy darling girls being used as a stopgap 'til Hunter's girls are on TV' actually on paper, because this sure sounds like it, along with the news of Eva Marie getting retrained, the signing of Dana Brooks, and the departure of AJ and the depush of Paige.

[Parties]

I still remember a random match where he loaded his colour with as many Smiths and Morrisey references as possible and it was so ridiculous and 'inside baseball' and I was just cracking up at how absurd and random it was. I don't remember who the PBP guy was, Todd Grisham I think, and he was trying to call it straight and finally broke and made one of his own and started laughing

 

It was a match in which Striker early on referred to Regal as the "Ringleader of the Tormentors". That was the line (and match) that for me moved his announcing from "enthusiastic goofball" to "nerd imbecile trying to get himself over".

[Jimmy Redman]

From memory, that match is Regal vs Christian on ECW TV in late 2009, maybe November or something. It's on goodhelmet's 2009 MOTY comp.

[ButchReedMark]

Rugby made a rare appearance in the Observer this week, and pretty much everything in there to do with it was choc full of errors. For the sake of 10 minutes of research Dave could have done, I wouldn't have spent the morning swearing under my breath and having to e-mail a load of corrections off to him.

[ButchReedMark]

Dave didn't like my last post in here seemingly. Oh well, I couldn't give a toss, well actually I could as it's about Rugby and I give a massive toss about Rugby to the point of obsession. Although the swearing and typing out far more than I needed to in a e-mail wasn't actually to get at Dave, but instead a reflection of how it just bothers me so much how poorly Rugby is covered in places which aren't the former British Empire. But kudos to "BlizzardRohypnol" or something like that on the attempt to stir something up which ended up with Dave saying "There wasn't loads of corrections, just some, but the handsome Welshman was right and I've put the corrections in next weeks issue". It's not just the WO. Everywhere, fucking everywhere. Erroneous bollocks about Rugby. No-one ever researches it. Hara's wiki claims that he was in the 1974 Japanese World Cup side, there wasn't even a Rugby World Cup until 1987. It makes me want to stove heads. I always just assumed or hoped that Dave, being the top range journo he is would have researched it better.

[Tawren]

What were the notes you sent to Dave? I play and am a big fan but know next to nothing about Japanese rugby or it's history.

[ButchReedMark]

It was basically a very mini essay on Shamateurism and Amatuerism in Rugby Union until professionalism being instituted by the IRB in 1995 (as opposed the the article claiming it was a popular professional sport in Japan in the 70s), the schizm of Rugby Union and Rugby League to add background to that along with the non-existence of a "All World" team in 1976 that Hara was reported in said article as playing for. I have records of World XV game in 77 against the Springboks and Hara was nowhere near that team (at one poing I thought maybe he appeared for international barnstormers the Barbarians vs someone like the East Midlands or something), but instead after some research though my old Rothmans Yearbooks and Welsh club programmes that he was actually on a somewhat more ragtag and less impressive "Overseas International XV" consisting of a Fijian, a Tongan, (back when the Pacific Island teams weren't the competitive forces they are now) Canadians (Pre Gareth Rees and Al Charron driving them to decency in the early 90s) and Rhodesians with a mercy addition of a few Kiwis, Wallabies and Bokkers along with FERGAL FUCKIN' SLATTERY which played somewhat less prestigious celebration games for club anniversary's against Cardiff and Gloucester.

 

I also challenged him on Rugby being popular in Japan in the 70s, as I argue it's far bigger in the era of professionalism due to the likes of world record try scorer Daisuke Ohata (although the less said about the opposition for most of those tries the better) and motor and other major companies bank rolling teams so they could sign bonafide superstars like Ma'a Nonu, George Gregan and Shane Williams. But I think he's of the knowledge that Hara leaving the amatuer ranks of Rugby Union to sign over to wrestling was a real big story when it happened, and I won't argue with him on that, as my knowledge of Japanese Wrestling is absolutely disgraceful. I'm just of the opinion that looking at Japan Top League attendance now and and players drawn and the fact the Top League didn't exist in the decade of the flared trouser that it wasn't a particularly big game in the 70s, and it probably isn't one now but it's certainly a fair shot bigger. I assume OJ as a Kiwi in Japan can go some way to confirm or deny this? But it's nowhere near the SANZAR, French, English, and Celtic/Italian leagues. Although in 2016 a Japanese team will be joining SANZAR league club competition. And they're going to get beaten like Ike beat Tina every time out.

 

 

Ha, and I've fucking done it again. I just love to talk Rugby history, especially when it's tenuously linked to wrestling

[ohtani's jacket]

Rugby was a lot more popular in the 70s and 80s, particularly at university level. They used to draw upwards of 70,000 to the big university matches. But then football took off and rugby decreased in popularity. Company rugby has always been semi-pro, as the corporations would employ a guy to play rugby and give him a day job in the company. There were foreign guys over here making coin before professionalism too, though nothing like the money that's thrown around these days. The companies don't make any profit from rugby. The entire thing is based on an archaic post-war law that insisted company's have sports teams and promote worker health, etc. I don't know if Hara jumping to pro-wrestling was a big story, but given that both rugby and erestling had a higher profile at the time than they do now, it was probably in the news.

[ButchReedMark]

Company rugby has always been semi-pro, as the corporations would employ a guy to play rugby and give him a day job in the company.

 

Shamatuerism rears it's ugly head again. Scott Gibbs' autobiography is full of stories about Swansea or Neath directors giving him well paid jobs he'd not be expected to show up to. The IRB should have gone pro far earlier.

 

Thanks for clearing that up, very helpful. Amazing that they used to draw more with the utter shite they'd have on the pitch Pre William Webb Ellis Cup being for grabs then they do now with top flight (past it) stars.

 

Although Japan did beat us the other summer and I nearly killed myself over it. Third string Wales XV or not.

 

Anyway, I'll stop blithering on about the sport of kings now.

[ohtani's jacket]

The post war economic boom meant there was a growing population. The companies had a much larger workforce and there were a higher number of students than there are today. I don't know if rugby itself was more popular, but with jobs for life and so on, there was more loyalty to your company. These days you get a couple of thousand employees from each side going to games where in the past you'd get tens of thousands. The max at university games these days is probably 40,000. Rugby in Japan is this weird beast where there's few real fans who follow say a high school prospect through to the pros. It's fragmented between high school, uni and company teams.

 

Anyway, if Wales knock the Wallabies out in the pool stages I will celebrate like my endless drunken repeats of Ireland's call on YouTube when they beat Australia at Eden Park.

[goodhelmet]

ButchReedMark.... fascinating stuff. I loved reading it. If this gets too rugby-centric though, we may need to move it to Pro Wrestling Mostly.

[MoS]

This is not strictly related to Meltzer, but it bears mentioning here. There is a thread in the WWE sub-forum about whether they forgive Austin for his domestic violence against Debra. Almost everyone has answered in the affirmative; some try to justify it by saying that because Austin once hinted there is a bit more to the story, there must be a really good reason for nearly killing your wife with your bare hands; a few actually made it out to be a good thing; some pathetic shitbag said that he sent a few videos of Debra to his mom, and his mom was all "Oh, I totally see why he beat the shit out of her; a bunch of them made some pathetic jokes about how he should have walked it dry - the title of the thread itself is derogatory and makes life of the situation, mentioning J.R's famous phrase about Austin stomping a mudhole. You know, because jokes about domestic abuse are so funny and edgy. Oh those wicked, irreverent rebels; totally sticking it to The Man and the bullshit PC culture. Oh yeah, one of them even decried the "pathetic pussies" who make an issue out of it. He wants a man's world, damn it! How dare they suggest that beating your wife is wrong?

 

Behaviour like this justifies every ignorant, derogatory stereotype there is about wrestling fan. This is not some hick corner buried somewhere in the netherlands of the internet. These are paying customers on the board of the biggest, most famous wrestling journalist there is. I mean, I know people have said that Meltzer despises these people and does not read threads, but Jesus Christ, Dave, this is your board, and the opinions shared on it reflect directly on you. As a wrestling fan, it is incredibly embarrassing to read these posts; how can Dave just turn a blind eye to it? They are not just wrong and insensitive; this is outright sociopathic behaviour; the kind that gets you admitted in an institution. If you are not prepared to be an active moderator, just do away with the board permanently.

[Phil Schneider]

That board is a sewer, they aren't too far removed from having an entire long running thread of child porn.

[Sean Liska]

Lets be honest, though. Most wrestling fans have forgiven and forgotten when it comes the Austin/Debra stuff. It's too inconvenient not to. He was and still is so entertaining. Who here vows to never watch Hart/Austin at SS96 again or not enjoy listening to Austin's podcast interview with Lawler. If a wrestler I don't enjoy did the same thing, like a Dragon Gate guy, I would probably always bring it up. But with Austin? Eh, it was his one bad moment, he's sorry, should he be ostracized for the rest of his life for one mistake, etc.

 

I'm not saying I'm morally right in this, it just makes my life as a wrestling fan easier. And I think a lot of people are the same.

[Jimmy Redman]

I think there's a bit of a tonal (and moral) difference between "I overlook a shitty aspect of Austin's real life character to enjoy his wrestling work" and "I'd have beat that annoying bitch too" or "Austin should have given her a Stunner hyuck hyuck" (Not quoting from The Board, just paraphrasing based on the above description).Not to mention trying to intelligently defend his behaviour.

[Hawkeye12]

Lets be honest, though. Most wrestling fans have forgiven and forgotten when it comes the Austin/Debra stuff. It's too inconvenient not to. He was and still is so entertaining. Who here vows to never watch Hart/Austin at SS96 again or not enjoy listening to Austin's podcast interview with Lawler. If a wrestler I don't enjoy did the same thing, like a Dragon Gate guy, I would probably always bring it up. But with Austin? Eh, it was his one bad moment, he's sorry, should he be ostracized for the rest of his life for one mistake, etc.

 

I'm not saying I'm morally right in this, it just makes my life as a wrestling fan easier. And I think a lot of people are the same.

It wasn't one bad moment though when he had domestic issues with his next girlfriend, Tess Broussard, also. Now she does sound crazy and maybe he likes them that way, but probably shouldn't have put himself into that position again less than two years after the Debra incident. Makes him look really bad even if it was blown out of proportion.

[hammerva]

The EC3 interview with Bryan and Mike was pretty funny if you like his smart alec character of him.

 

I did a spit take when he said that his favorite Rip Rogers line was "Before you fist her you must kiss her".

[cm funk]

 

I still remember a random match where he loaded his colour with as many Smiths and Morrisey references as possible and it was so ridiculous and 'inside baseball' and I was just cracking up at how absurd and random it was. I don't remember who the PBP guy was, Todd Grisham I think, and he was trying to call it straight and finally broke and made one of his own and started laughing

 

It was a match in which Striker early on referred to Regal as the "Ringleader of the Tormentors". That was the line (and match) that for me moved his announcing from "enthusiastic goofball" to "nerd imbecile trying to get himself over".

 

 

It definitely wasn't a Regal-Christian match, which was always in the main event spot. It was a middle of the card geek match, and it wasn't just one line, it was commentary peppered with jokes and references to The Smiths, but it's interesting that he didn't just do it in the match I'm thinking of

[cm funk]

 

Lets be honest, though. Most wrestling fans have forgiven and forgotten when it comes the Austin/Debra stuff. It's too inconvenient not to. He was and still is so entertaining. Who here vows to never watch Hart/Austin at SS96 again or not enjoy listening to Austin's podcast interview with Lawler. If a wrestler I don't enjoy did the same thing, like a Dragon Gate guy, I would probably always bring it up. But with Austin? Eh, it was his one bad moment, he's sorry, should he be ostracized for the rest of his life for one mistake, etc.

 

I'm not saying I'm morally right in this, it just makes my life as a wrestling fan easier. And I think a lot of people are the same.

It wasn't one bad moment though when he had domestic issues with his next girlfriend, Tess Broussard, also. Now she does sound crazy and maybe he likes them that way, but probably shouldn't have put himself into that position again less than two years after the Debra incident. Makes him look really bad even if it was blown out of proportion.

 

 

He's pretty much said (without actually saying it) that he was running hard and fast and wild those years and was pretty reckless and out of control, living the gimmick, angry and pissed off all the time, and that he regrets a lot of stuff from that time in his life. Debra seems like a pretty crazy woman too, who bounced from Mongo to Jarrett to Steve.......I have to assume she was into some of the gimmicks......when people are drunk and pilled up and coked up.....shit happens

 

I'm in no way defending Austin for smacking around a woman, but he seems to be in a much better, healthier mental and physical state these days

[El-P]

Debra was never with Jeff Jarrett. And I don't see how "bouncing" from one guy to another makes her a crazy woman. She had different relationships. Ok. And ? Like everyone, basically.

There's no excuse, period. The fact that Austin considers it a mistake in his life and regrets his behaviour at the time is enough for me to not put him in the same bag as a shithead woman abuser like Floyd.

And yeah, the fact Triple H still puts him over tells everything you need to know about the moral values of this company. Woman beater = ok. A woman with issues (whom you dumped like a crap btw) doing a bunch of porns = bad. Yeah.

[cm funk]

I'm not defending Austin at all.....don't get it twisted......I'm just saying when you have all those drugs and stuff and the crazy rasslin biz involved.......sometimes bad things happen

 

I do respect that Austin seems to have gotten his shit together and seems to really regret his past behavior when he was younger and during the crazy years.......and nobody actually knows what happened with Debra. None of us do, and we never will. Austin says there's a 2 or 3 year period where he barely remembers any of it......which sounds like bullshit.....but he also says he was all pilled up and drinking 15 beers and a bottle of whiskey or two a day at some points......so yeah.......

 

I'm certainly not defending the bad stuff he did......but he has to live with it for the rest of his life, and it seems like he's tried real hard to become a better person

[Sean Liska]

 

And yeah, the fact Triple H still puts him over tells everything you need to know about the moral values of this company. Woman beater = ok. A woman with issues (whom you dumped like a crap btw) doing a bunch of porns = bad. Yeah.

 

It tells you they think Mayweather may make them more money one day and Chyna won't.

[Phil Schneider]

As my man Tomk pointed out on Twitter, this is a fed with Moolah, Snuka and Tyson in their hall of fame.

[Parties]

There was also that Rolling Stone profile that I think came out as late as 2002 in which a pissed-off Austin was driving recklessly while drinking a beer with the reporter in his car, coming off like a full-on alcoholic rather than some fun loving rascal who enjoys a nightly Steveweiser. In a subsequent RS interview last year, he said that nowadays he drinks two IPAs and one glass of wine every night, which he deemed "Moderation."