Dave Meltzer stuff

[KrisZ]

My favorite is Dana whining about ESPN putting the UFC results up on their ticker and .com after the European shows and Dave taking him to task for it. Dave saying that if you want to be treated as a big boy sport expect them to cover you in real time.

[Bix]

I asked Gross for a clarification on Twitter. *crosses fingers*

[sek69]

Perhaps I'm missing something here.

 

Wasn't the point of the Cole/JR segment to further Michael Cole's heel turn?

I enjoyed it because it came off to me like a totally scripted segment designed to "justify" Cole's heel turn.

(Cole can claim he got upset that the WWE Universe has never supported him even when he was made to be 'the voice of WWE.' Then, Jerry Lawler goes behind his back to get Jim Ross back - effectively a vote of no-confidence.)

 

Yes it did seem the point was to further Cole's heel turn, but Lawler seemed to be calling his own shots just a little.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Perhaps I'm missing something here.

 

Wasn't the point of the Cole/JR segment to further Michael Cole's heel turn?

I enjoyed it because it came off to me like a totally scripted segment designed to "justify" Cole's heel turn.

(Cole can claim he got upset that the WWE Universe has never supported him even when he was made to be 'the voice of WWE.' Then, Jerry Lawler goes behind his back to get Jim Ross back - effectively a vote of no-confidence.)

 

Yes it did seem the point was to further Cole's heel turn, but Lawler seemed to be calling his own shots just a little.

 

Oh totally. Lawler was obviously getting annoyed and saying what he wanted. Which is why the whole, "Vince was feeding Cole ALL his lines" in another chapter of Vince vs. Jim Ross seems a little wrong to me. It seemed more to me that Lawler was trying to tell Cole to knock it off as he was overdoing it.

 

The other line that Dave and Alverez think was fed to Lawler was when Lawler was asked by Cole what legend Mark Henry reminded him of and Lawler couldn't think of anyone. A few minutes later Lawler said that Henry was sort of like, "well..Bruno Sammartino". I can see Vince saying that, I guess.....

[Cox]

Just a thought: Since Antoine Dodson was part of the UFC show tonight, does that mean that home invasions are now pro wrestling? After all, he DID cut a hell of a promo on the guys who invaded his house and it did logically set up a second showdown between the Dodson family and the intruder from the projects.

[rovert]

Just a thought: Since Antoine Dodson was part of the UFC show tonight, does that mean that home invasions are now pro wrestling? After all, he DID cut a hell of a promo on the guys who invaded his house and it did logically set up a second showdown between the Dodson family and the intruder from the projects.

 

He was rocking the Orlando Jordan straight hair look too.

[MikeCampbell]

JR's blog made it pretty clear that the whole thing was a work to continue the heel Michael Cole thing. But Lawler sure seemed like he was getting legit angry. He said in his book that he doesn't go to production meetings and stuff, so maybe he had no idea that Cole was gonna do it.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Dave and Alverez going on and on about how Cena's storyline retirement doesn't work because "real" retirements don't mean anything, is a baffling confusion of real life and pro wrestling. Dave actually says, "Besides the kids in the crowd, no one really thinks Cena is retiring." Really? No shit.

[KrisZ]

Dave sure likes to use these types of headlines to trick non-MMA fans into clicking on the link.

 

Top ratings draw now out in head-to-head live promotional TV war

He's talking about Herschel Walker but come on.

[Bix]

It's members only, too.

 

Dave has turned into Gene Okerlund, which is so hypocritical that it's pathetic.

[artDDP]

It's members only, too.

 

Dave has turned into Gene Okerlund, which is so hypocritical that it's pathetic.

That is dead-on. I never even thought of that.

 

I've pretty much stopped going to the Observer page because of this. I have quite a few good, reliable MMA-only pages in my Favorites folder if I need MMA news.

[KrisZ]

That meme about boxing being dead well yeah

 

The Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito fight on 11/13 did an initial estimate of 1.15 million buys and a $64 million total PPV gross, which could give boxing both the No. 1 and No. 2 slots on the PPV charts in 2010. Floyd Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley on 5/1 would be No. 1 with 1.4 million buys. The UFC’s Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin fight on 7/3 was in the same range of buys as Pacquiao vs. Margarito, but at a lower price point. Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez on 10/21 and Rashad Evans vs. Quinton Jackson on 5/29 would be hovering around the 1 million range to round out the year’s big five PPV events.

[Ditch]

That meme about boxing being dead well yeah

There is no reason whatsoever Meltzer couldn't discuss Mayweather and Manny in pro wrestling terms. Mayweather as the heel ducking the popular babyface, etc. And Mayweather was in a match at Wrestlemania!

[sek69]

That meme about boxing being dead well yeah

 

The Manny Pacquiao vs. Antonio Margarito fight on 11/13 did an initial estimate of 1.15 million buys and a $64 million total PPV gross, which could give boxing both the No. 1 and No. 2 slots on the PPV charts in 2010. Floyd Mayweather vs. Shane Mosley on 5/1 would be No. 1 with 1.4 million buys. The UFC’s Brock Lesnar vs. Shane Carwin fight on 7/3 was in the same range of buys as Pacquiao vs. Margarito, but at a lower price point. Lesnar vs. Cain Velasquez on 10/21 and Rashad Evans vs. Quinton Jackson on 5/29 would be hovering around the 1 million range to round out the year’s big five PPV events.

 

It's not exactly shocking news that Pac is a huge PPV draw, he kind has been one for a while now. The problem with boxing is no one but him and Floyd seem to be able to draw for shit anymore. That's probably half the reason the fight between them seems like it won't ever happen Once it does, there's literally no more match-ups worth buying a PPV for.

[KrisZ]

Here's an interesting stat, compare the purses from the top 3 matches on the 2nd biggest UFC of the year to this Saturday's upcoming HBO boxing event.

 

With a total gate of $2150000, UFC 121 has been one of the biggest grossing events in UFC history. Here are the purses of each fighter involved, no sponsor money included.

Brock Lesnar ($400000) vs. Cain Velasquez ($100000 + $100000 win bonus)

Jake Shields ($75000 + $75000 win bonus) vs. Martin Kampmann ($27000)

Diego Sanchez ($50000 + $50000 win bonus) vs. Paulo Thiago ($18000)

Juan Manuel Marquez $1.4 mill vs. Michael Katsidis $530K

Andre Berto $910K vs. Freddy Hernandez $75K

Celestino Caballero $200K vs. Jason Litzau $50K

[khawk20]

The problem with boxing is no one but him and Floyd seem to be able to draw for shit anymore. That's probably half the reason the fight between them seems like it won't ever happen Once it does, there's literally no more match-ups worth buying a PPV for.

I dunno, I think Klitschko vs. Klitschko would draw huge, although it would be a terrible fight...not that it will ever get made.

[KrisZ]

Can anyone post the rant from Wednesday's WOL where Dave talks about how the NFL/NBA/MLB/Boxing/UFC/Wrestling are all the same thing. I think it started around the 35 minute mark.

[khawk20]

Dave Meltzer has morphed into Dusty "everything in life is a work, especially pro sports" Wolfe?

[KrisZ]

In so many words he said that all of the above mentioned are a business first which I can agree to but he said that the sporting element isn't what is important it's the entertainment part. It was just a great diatribe.

[kjh]

At the end of the day this is a business, it's like you're saying is it a sport or entertainment, IT'S A BUSINESS, like the NBA, like the NFL, every one of them is a business. OK, it's business first, sport second, entertainment second, I don't know, but it's all the same thing, but at the end whether it's sport or entertainment, it is number one a business and if you think it's anything but a business and you're running it, you'll be out of business, that's a reality and anyone who doesn't understand that, doesn't understand the first thing about this industry. I don't want to hear from people who don't understand that it's a business first, I don't want to hear from anyone who says that because I just feel insulted that you don't understand the first thing.

[KrisZ]

There it is. Dave's voice really picked up while delivering that and this was brought up because guys were complaining about being cut from UFC because they weren't in entertaining fights according to Dana.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Did anyone point out to Dave that "unentertaining" athletes in football, baseball, basketball, etc don't get cut from the team as long as they are winning/ helping win games?

 

I get the whole "all sports are a business" thing. But Pro Wrestling isn't a sport.

[soup23]

I am going to ask this here, does anyone know if Bryan Alvarez has heat with Wade Keller for some reason? Every time he mentions him or his name comes up he looks down at him like he is inferior? I am judging this partially on the latest podcast with Derek Burgan. I know Dave is his business partner, but I think Wade is an established himself enough in the wrestling journalism business to be above "I don't give a Fuck about Wade Keller" comments.

[KrisZ]

Some message board MMA fans have decided Jim Ross is senile because he believes Josh Koscheck is money. He called Koscheck the Ric Flair of MMA. Actually he's closer to a 90s Shawn Michaels but with more self awareness and a whole lot more drawing power. Story is at http://www.jrsbarbq.com He also thinks Brock Lesnar vs. Frank Mir III is the obvious no-brainer next match. Well, that's another issue.

[kjh]

UFC's goal is to put on events that make people want to keep coming back for more.

 

Anyone who consistently doesn't contribute to this goal is lucky to be in UFC.

 

Anyone who consistently hurts this goal has no business being in UFC.

And anyone who has even the slightest problem grasping this obviousness has no business speaking of UFC as anything more than a fanboy.

Well, he absolutely won't be cut if he beats Penn.

UFC at one show last year offered specific bonuses to everyone who finishes. There were almost no finishes on that show. It was amazing. Anyway, they do bonus everyone on PPV from $5,000 to six figures plus, and part of that does tie in with finishing.

 

McKee was promised if he had exciting fights he'd get a chance. He had two good finishes so he gets a chance.

 

Nobody has a right to be in UFC. If you are a champion you should stay in as long as you don't lose. If you are a viable contender, you shouldn't be cut. If Fitch loses to Penn he is not a viable contender.

 

People may complain but you have to give the public what it wants or you go out of business. Everyone in this industry has gone out of business except UFC and Strikeforce. And Strikeforce is struggling. It's because they get it. They've done the market research.

 

Until you understand what the fan base is, and it's not people who care about win/loss records or probably even wins and losses all that much. It's guys 18-40 who get together with their buddies and want to have fun seeing fighters they think are stars and being stars doesn't mean being good fighters, it means being stars, and to see fun fights--that's all--if you think there's anything more you are guilty of overthinking. You don't provide that, they're gone. If they care about Fitch, he stays. If they don't, then it's not an issue whether he stays or goes. Your job is to become a commodity that people care about, and be a competitive fighter.

 

When asked if they see it as sport or entertainment, the answer is heavily skewed toward entertainment. That's what the audience wants.

 

If Fitch is not a contender and doesn't get over to the fan base against Penn and ends up cut, and ESPN is critical of it (fat chance), that just shows ESPN are the same hypocritical people who did a big piece critical that women's fighting was promoted around Gina Carano, and now that Carano is gone, wouldn't touch Cris Cyborg, Megumi Fujii, Marloes Coenen or Sarah Kaufman with any coverage at all.

 

If ESPN does features on Fitch and helps make him a personality, he won't be cut. If they don't, and cry about him being cut, which they won't by the way, then just laugh at their hypocrisy.