Dave Meltzer stuff

[goc]

He had a pretty good number of singles matches on Raw and Smackdown.

http://www.profightdb.com/wrestlers/roman-reigns-6728.html?year=2014

How many of them can you recall with any degree of specificity? Exactly.

 

Meltzer was an outlier on Reigns/Orton. Scott Keith's comments far more closely capture the general consensus:

I dunno about this Reigns push, dude. This was a really slow-paced match and the fans were more into Orton’s comeback. I was certainly not particularly invested in the finish or anything. This was certainly not the star-making performance they were probably looking for. **1/2

 

And he came in second to Kane for Most Overrated in the 2014 WON awards.

How many singles matches from Raw and Smackdown can you recall with any degree of specificity for ANYONE on the roster? Maybe 1 or 2 for each guy it's not really a great litmus test.

[C.S.]

I'm not a Reigns hater - I thought his match with Big Show a year or two, for example, was a ton of fun - but I don't remember the Orton match being anything special.

 

I really hope that "dude" sentence was not a direct quote. If it is, I weep for the dumbing down of America and the state of education today.

[goc]

The argument about Roman Reigns is over now, he's #1 in this year's PWI 500. When a guy wins such a prestigious and meticulously researched award, there is no more reason to argue about his greatness. It's now a 100% scientific fact that Roman Reigns is better than whatever flippy doo indy midget is your favorite.

[WingedEagle]

Reigns's 2015 was really carried by the Bryan & Lesnar matches. The Show Match was solid and the Wyatt stuff towards the end of the year was looked upon more favorably by some than others, but the depth is so much greater this year.

 

His 2016 includes a pair of PPV classics against Styles, as well as the Ambrose/Brock and Ambrose/Rollins triangles on PPV, the Rollins PPV match, really strong TV outings against Rollins, Rusev, Balor and the recent four ways. Throw in the six man tags with the Usos against The Club and you've got a very long list of big performances.

[Jimmy James]

I actually thought the Roman/Sheamus program was excellent aside from the lame League of Nations gimmick, though I may be a minority there.

 

There was also that widely-praised tournament match with Cesaro (though Cesaro mostly got credit for "carrying" him)

[goc]

The usual idiots say Roman is carried any time he has a good match. He could somehow pull a 4 star match out of Apollo Crews and people would say Crews carried Roman. "He worked for Dragon Gate and EVOLVE!"

[Jimmy James]

I realize that posting dumb comments from wrestling boards is the lowest of low-hanging fruit, but

 

[goc]

That's some impressive mental gymnastics to try and explain away how Reigns manages to somehow get the best out of all his opponents.

[Ricky Jackson]

I'm not a Reigns hater - I thought his match with Big Show a year or two, for example, was a ton of fun - but I don't remember the Orton match being anything special.

 

I really hope that "dude" sentence was not a direct quote. If it is, I weep for the dumbing down of America and the state of education today.

Don't worry, Keith's from Saskatchewan

[Coffey]

When The Shield first showed up in WWE, my buddy John & I both thought that Roman was the best. Because he had the best look & was being protected the most. He looked like a beast in all the matches. Most of the people online were only talking about how great Tyler Black & Jon Moxley were. I tried to take the stance that what you did prior to WWE doesn't mean you'll still get to showcase that when you're actually on WWE TV. Seth Rollins is a good worker but he works like a babyface, even when he's heel. Dean Ambrose can be a good promo, but in WWE he's reciting scripted lines. Roman was manufactured from the beginning to be what WWE wanted & it's working out. He may never be a great promo but he still has physical charisma, looks like a million bucks & continues to improve in-ring, where he wasn't that bad to begin with. He's a helluva athlete (not to say Seth isn't too).

 

I don't think it's just the Daniel Bryan thing, nor is it because people are rebelling against the WWE Machine pushing him. I think some of it has to do with him showing up at the same time as Seth & Dean, both of whom brought Indy credibility with them. Then you also had, I believe, C.M. Punk saying that the Shield initially was going to be Chris Hero instead of Roman Reigns & that WWE put the axe to that idea & Hero also has a lot of value from Independent fans.

 

It's like a big storm cloud of bad timing & outstanding circumstances that add fuel to the fire for people to have a reason to dislike Roman, even when what they're seeing with their eyes on weekly television is telling them otherwise. Roman is great, will only get better & barring a terrible injury or something, is going to be around for a long time. I think Seth is good too but would work better as a babyface. I think Dean is fine but not a top guy & needs to be put into more gimmick matches so he can be the crazy character he's trying to portray. Roman I think can be heel or face, I could see him playing a corporate monster or an ass-kicking babyface. I just think there's more potential there.

[Dewar]

Between the Roman Reigns and Roy Lee Welch love, you are the best poster here.

[Brandon-E]

I've actually seen someone on another forum say the Roman Reigns push is more forced than Jeff Jarrett's push in 2000 WCW and Justin Credible's push in 2000 ECW and told me that those pushes made more sense than Roman's.

[sek69]

I don't think there's a worse "this isn't what anyone wants" push worse than 2000 WCW Jarrett. At least with Justin Credible in ECW you could kind of defend it since what the hell else where they going to do since the moment anyone got a push it seemed they immediately got poached.

[El-P]

"Roman's awesome !" clap clap ! clapclapclap !

 

"This is wrestling !" clap clap ! clapclapclap !

 

"No more workrate !" clap clap ! clapclapclap !

 

"This is five stars !" clap clap ! clapclapclap !

 

*yawn*

 

Maybe the fact Roman Reigns is kind of a crappy Cena 2.0 character with lame-ass promos and taglines also doesn't help him get over with the current WWE crowd. I mean, Bryan is far away now, let's not pretend it's just because of him to this day that people don't buy Roman. Let's fucking turn heel already. He would be better anyway.

[Coffey]

The issue there is the same thing as the issue with Cena. All the people booing Roman now would cheer him as a heel. Just like they would if WWE turned Cena heel. The babyfaces get booed by half the crowd and those same fans cheer the heels. I don't know if we can have a heel anymore that is universally loathed. Not unless they suck on purpose & are willing to do things that you probably can't do in a corporate, publicly traded company without getting sued. It would take someone that doesn't have a social media account, that doesn't have merchandise, that wins even though they suck, without ever doing any sort of flashy moves.. and even after all that, they would just get told they had X-Pac heat. There's no winning in wrestling as a heel anymore.

[goc]

Between the Roman Reigns and Roy Lee Welch love, you are the best poster here.

Thanks. I've always thought so myself but it's always nice to have confirmation.

[Cox]

For reasons that only seem to make sense to Dave, the Cruiserweight Classic doesn't count towards the Best Weekly TV Show award in the WON Awards this year.

[sek69]

I *think* his reasoning is that the CWC is a limited run event and not a show that runs all year long, which... yeah.

[Matt D]

Does Lucha Underground count?

[Dylan Waco]

So are we really going to keep acting like Roman is some kind of super worker now? I mean, yes he's improved from when he was just the big scary dude in the Shield, but I feel like a lot of this Reigns love is a kneejerk reaction to fans continuing to boo him.

 

Ar this point I just assume that anyone who thinks Reigns is less than top 3 in the WWE in ring either isn't paying attention, is trolling, is trying to confirm to perceived "smart norms," or hates WWE main event wrestling

[Cox]

Does Lucha Underground count?

Lucha Underground and The Ultimate Fighter both count, and TUF has won.

[Matt D]

 

Does Lucha Underground count?

Lucha Underground and The Ultimate Fighter both count, and TUF has won.

 

Would Breaking Ground count?

[goc]

Dave says that the qualification is that the show must have at least 26 episodes in the voting period.

[InYourCase]

 

So are we really going to keep acting like Roman is some kind of super worker now? I mean, yes he's improved from when he was just the big scary dude in the Shield, but I feel like a lot of this Reigns love is a kneejerk reaction to fans continuing to boo him.

 

Ar this point I just assume that anyone who thinks Reigns is less than top 3 in the WWE in ring either isn't paying attention, is trolling, is trying to confirm to perceived "smart norms," or hates WWE main event wrestling

 

I think he's the best of The Shield guys. I'm at a point where I like Reigns more often than not when he's wrestling, but when Cesaro, Styles, Rusev, Neville, and Owens (we won't ever see eye-to-eye on him) are wrestling weekly, I think it's safe to say that they're better than Roman.

 

I also feel that if Luke Harper or Big E were in Roman's spot, they'd deliver to the same degree in-ring (if not better) and Big E, especially, would run circles around his character work.

 

I like Roman. I think he's good, and at times, great. He'll have at least one match in my Top 10 this year. I can buy into an argument that he's a top 10 guy, but not top 5, let alone top 3.

[Jmare007]

So, Roman or Rusev? Considering this board tries to go away from "Great Match Theory" - which is really refreshing - I think it's an interesting discussion. I think I like Rusev more but not by much.