Dave Meltzer stuff

[sek69]

Should be noted that Andrade deleted his tweet because one of the pics include was him grabbing a handful of Charlotte's ass. 

I would also suspect Charlotte isn't a regular listener to Wrestling Observer shows, and the tweet she replied to was from BluRayWrestling which is a known obsessive Dave troll who has repeatedly posted audio clips of shows out of context. 

Her advice goes both ways, she could have easily called Dave and been all "wtf man?" and let him explain what the context was. Instead,  she amplifies a bad faith troll on Twitter which only verifies him to the blind WWE stans .

 

 

[NintendoLogic]

Dave does have a history of phrasing things inelegantly, especially on radio shows. So I don't necessarily begrudge wrestlers sometimes taking things the wrong way, although all the clowns who tweet out-of-context audio clips for the purpose of winding people up can suck it. The real problem is when a bunch of other WWE wrestlers inevitably join in the pile-on. They surely realize that they work for a morally bankrupt company run by ghouls who screw them over in innumerable ways both major and minor, but it's a lot easier to shoot the messenger than to stand up for themselves.

[Loss]

11 hours ago, MoS said:

He should not have talked about whether Charlotte herself felt pressured into getting cosmetic surgery without checking with her first. However, yeah, all the pathetic WWE stans and the usual Meltz haters are as usual amplifying this in the most bad faith possible, cuz their entire online existence revolves around trying to show up Dave. It's pathetic, and the fact that Dave mostly ignores them must fill them with fury 

Pretty much exactly how I see it. 

[MoS]

7 hours ago, NintendoLogic said:

 The real problem is when a bunch of other WWE wrestlers inevitably join in the pile-on. They surely realize that they work for a morally bankrupt company run by ghouls who screw them over in innumerable ways both major and minor, but it's a lot easier to shoot the messenger than to stand up for themselves.

This is very cynical, but I feel WWE wrestlers also do this to get into the good books of management. Charlotte has every right to tell Dave to go fuck himself, but I cannot help but feel that one reason she is doing it is cuz she might have heat cuz of the Andrade situation (which is obviously ridiculous in of itself but this is WWE we are talking about) and what better way to become the golden child again than trashing Dave? Rollins showed us that is a great way to keep getting pushed by WWE 

[strobogo]

The real cynicism is how many of these wrestlers actually have personal relationships with Meltzer and will use him to leak out shit they want leaked out but then make a public show against him when they feel it works for whatever narrative at the time. 

 

Also, jeez how does anyone listen to the radio show? Dave's bumbling, mumbling, stumbling, and ums and uhs, and inability to finish a thought before jumping to 7 other things will turn your brain to mush in just a few minutes.

[MoS]

2 hours ago, strobogo said:

Also, jeez how does anyone listen to the radio show? Dave's bumbling, mumbling, stumbling, and ums and uhs, and inability to finish a thought before jumping to 7 other things will turn your brain to mush in just a few minutes.

I love love LOVE the random Dave in-depth dive into wrestling history, but this is so accurate. He really doesn't need to be a first-break reporter anymore. Hell, I don't even care when he talks MMA, even though it is clear that he has zero technical knowledge of MMA and often looks like an idiot. But when I listen to Dave on WOR, what I really want is random in-depth stories on wrestling history like Dave does sometimes. Of course Charlotte blew that whole thing into tremendously exaggerated babyface support, but anyone following her arc will know that Dave did not really make a huge mistake, although he should have absolutely, definitely checked with Charlotte before making any generic statements in public about any woman wrestler. So again, I really think that wrestlers focus on Dave radio shows  when they just want management to like them again 

[Loss]

Also, it's possible or even likely that Dave has known Charlotte Flair since she was a child.

[sek69]

1 hour ago, MoS said:

So again, I really think that wrestlers focus on Dave radio shows  when they just want management to like them again 

I suppose it's probably not a coincidence this happened right when there were rumors Charlotte might get some residual heat over whatever Andrade was able to do to get a full release with no 90 day clause.

[strobogo]

I also don't believe there would be any heat on Charlotte for anything nor any chance of her leaving 

[PhilTLL]

1 hour ago, sek69 said:

I suppose it's probably not a coincidence this happened right when there were rumors Charlotte might get some residual heat over whatever Andrade was able to do to get a full release with no 90 day clause.

This I like. It wouldn't be pro wrestling if a bunch of people weren't trying to work each other.

[C.S.]

On 4/24/2021 at 11:59 PM, sek69 said:

Her advice goes both ways, she could have easily called Dave and been all "wtf man?" and let him explain what the context was. Instead,  she amplifies a bad faith troll on Twitter which only verifies him to the blind WWE stans .

I'm no Charlotte or WWE stan, but Dave is the reporter and should be the one making those phone calls - Charlotte is under no obligation to do so, their personal relatioship aside.

[Jmare007]

34 minutes ago, C.S. said:

I'm no Charlotte or WWE stan, but Dave is the reporter and should be the one making those phone calls - Charlotte is under no obligation to do so, their personal relatioship aside.

Yeah, I'm always puzzled by people letting this kind of shit fly with Dave. He's a reporter and journalist with 40 years of experience and sometimes he doesn't do the most basic shit any journalist has to do. Not to mention he's a communicator that has an increasingly hard time communicating his thoughts.

I get that WOR is an uncomfortable grey area as Dave can just be shooting the shit with Bryan but he's constantly giving material for people to pile up on him (and yes, there's a lot of times when that's uncalled for).

On 4/25/2021 at 3:12 PM, strobogo said:

The real cynicism is how many of these wrestlers actually have personal relationships with Meltzer and will use him to leak out shit they want leaked out but then make a public show against him when they feel it works for whatever narrative at the time.

That's journalism though. Specially when your job is reporting on stuff people don't want to be public. Some sources will try to use you for their own agenda, leak you shit and talk off the record, and then act like your public enemy n°1 in public.

[Loss]

I feel like I always understand the point Dave is making on audio, but then again I don't have an agenda. He's definitely not above criticism, but there are a lot of people who actively look for things to be angry about with him.

[sek69]

It seems Dave's biggest fault by far is that his meandering style of talking, while endearing to some, makes it extremely easy for bad faith actors and obsessives to take things out of context and/or cobble a narrative about him. Then that same meandering style makes it sound like he's hemming and hawing when he's trying to debunk what they say about him. 

[MoS]

This made me laugh

 

 

[cm funk]

If anyone hasn't checked it out yet the "interview" Dave & Garrett did with Kim Wood re:  Pillman (and it goes all over the place including some great Stu Hart stuff) gets my highest rec

I'd heard Dave talk about him for years, and read up on him a little (my dad was into Nautilus machines and introduced me them at the YMCA as a kid, so that aspect of his life fascinates me), but never heard him shoot the shit like this before.  What a f'n character

[joeg]

@cm funkYeah Kim Wood is the best, I've seen interviews he did on performance enhancing drug use in pro sports. There was one on HBO where Wood said the biggest reason people use PEDs is that most pro coaches are scumbags who will do anything to win and then named some names. 

 

Back to Meltzer. I just got caught up on the Charlotte drama from a few weeks ago. People need to stop referring to Meltzer a journalist and a reporter. That's just not what he is. He's an opinion columnist, a podcast host and a historian. When he gets referred to as a reporter, people assume his fact checking and sourcing is similar to that of an actual reporter in tradition media. That's not the case. His standards for verification and fact checking are more in line with what one would expect from opinion pieces. There's nothing wrong with that, but if we treat his as an opinion columnist, commentator or podcaster he doesn't get blow back for saying stupid, awkward shit all the time. Joe Rogan, Steven A. Smith, Bill Maher, Rachel Madow, Tony Kornheiser, Joe Scarbough, Thomas Friedman, etc are all wrong from time to time and all say stupid things occasionally, yet rarely are called out on it. We treat what they say as one person's opinion. I think that's how any thing Meltzer says should be framed- leading wrestling commentator said xyz rather than leading wrestling reporter said xyz.   

 

 

 

[cm funk]

He's a journalist, but so was Hunter Thompson.  Milage varies, and at the end of the day he covers a fucking carny business, what do people expect?

[sek69]

So Dave and Garrett did an interview with Bruce "AEW and his widow were lying about Brodie Lee having COVID" Mitchell, and it was basically Dave and Bruce saying Bruce was a victim of the mean old internet mob, which yeah he was after doubling/tripling/quadrupling down on his amazingly fucked up. To show how poorly this interview is being received, the WO board is 100% in the "this was a mistake, Dave should take this one down" camp.

[MoS]

Imagine, just imagine having Bruce Mitchell over to talk about "how to cover the wrestling business", a mere few months removed from him giving a crash course on exactly how NOT to cover it. I am guessing he did not show any remorse either, beyond some perfunctory apologies. Utterly baffling and tone-deaf, and a case where Dave's famous obstinacy and stubborn nature leads to a terrible decision-making on his part. I bet that he doubles and triples down on it, like Bruce did

[MoS]

8 minutes ago, sek69 said:

It was basically Dave and Bruce saying Bruce was a victim of the mean old internet mob

If anything, he was not mocked and derided enough. Fuck Bruce Mitchell

[sek69]

Yeah I tend to be on the Dave Defender side of things, but fuck giving this guy any platform. 

[sek69]

Also I gotta wonder how Dave's pal Tony feels about this interview.

[PeteF3]

Twitter has poisoned Dave's brain. He wastes so much time arguing with bad-faith actors on behalf of Prichard and Bischoff that he's starting to see any criticism at all as being from that same kind of mob.

[NintendoLogic]

Then there's this embarrassing attempt at whataboutism from Garrett.

Whatever you may think of Gage, he paid his debt to society and has expressed genuine remorse for what he did. Mitchell doubled and tripled down and still tries to justify his actions to this very day.

Also of note, Bryan Alvarez didn't know about the show until it went up. I'm sure he's thrilled to see mass cancellations (or at least threats thereof) over something he had nothing to do with and likely would have shut down if he had known about it.