Slasher Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Yes, but look at that time period: * July 2000, Fully Loaded -- Selling point was the Benoit/Rock and HHH/Jericho matches. Actually as the name implies, Fully Loaded was sold on the fact the card was "fully loaded", and they did sell the hell out of Angle/Taker, even if the build up was not as well thought out or as good as the Benoit/Rock or Jericho/HHH. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 One thing is for sure, Biker Taker of the early-00s was probably the lamest and most ill-advised character reinvention ever. Agreed. Shitty character, terrible music theme, shitty matches. For a while, Taker was just godawful. And it didn't made a lick of sense coming from all the dead man incarnations. Taker & Kane as the face tag team in 2001 was just awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 One thing is for sure, Biker Taker of the early-00s was probably the lamest and most ill-advised character reinvention ever. Agreed. Shitty character, terrible music theme, shitty matches. For a while, Taker was just godawful. And yeah, I don't think it's fair to use TNA as a proof Angle is not a draw. No one can draw in TNA. Cena would probably be the only active guy who could make a difference. Angle never really was in position to draw in WWE. And he was never *The Man*. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Sting actually did move the needle for awhile in TNA. Raven moved the needle when he first arrived and feuded with Jarrett. Those are really the only instances of someone making an impact for TNA even briefly. Are you simply making this up? Please provide actual numbers instead of going on hearsay. Angle vs Samoa Joe is the highest drawing PPV in TNA history. The # they did was 60k buys as reported in the observer several times. That's higher than any PPV number Sting has ever drawn in TNA. Undertaker/Austin drew the highest Summerslam in history in 1998. I guess Taker had nothing to do with that either. He also was in the highest rated Raw segment *ever* in 1999 ( 9.2 rating) and drew a good buy vs Austin again at Fully Loaded that year. Did you read the part where I said Taker drew against Austin in the 90s? Raven as far as TNA went. His match with Jarrett in 2003 drew buys as it was the highest buyrate since the first PPV at the time. That's all I know about that because as far as I know, there's no solid numbers to what the weekly PPV. But there was buzz for that match and that feud and it immediately died with no Jarrett. Sting's second run in the company did have a brief effect as Sting brought them their highest tv ratings when he actually appeared on tv. IE his first tv appearance broke the 1.0 barrier for TNA when the show had been a constant .8 for the first 3 months or so. Looking up his PPV numbers, Final Resolution did 55,000 for his return match in 2006 and Bound for Glory the same year did similar numbers to that for Sting winning the belt. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 16, 2011 Report Share Posted October 16, 2011 Looking at those PPV numbers for 2006 TNA, all I can do is shake my head and wonder "What if Russo hadn't been brought back as booker in late-2006?". Sure, TNA before he returned wasn't perfect or setting the world on fire, but they did have some momentum, were putting on entertaining PPVs, and undefeated Joe seemed on the verge of...something. Then Russo comes in and turns the whole thing into a clown-show joke that hasn't drawn shit for five fucking years, providing the Wrestlecrap crew with entry upon entry, trotting out one has-been after the next, and putting on shows that make a mediocre WWE look like the greatest promotion of all time in comparison. I know it's a cliche, but fuck Russo. Fuck him for booking the shittiest Royal Rumble ever and one of the shittiest Wrestlemania's ever. Fuck him for booking WCW so horribly that it will forever be the standard for shitty wrestling. May you never, ever, even for the worst flea-bag indy group, come close to a position of booking power again you piece of fucking trash. Sorry, but years of built up frustration just kinda erupted there Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ricky Jackson Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Also, anybody want to correct this Meltzer typo from today's update?: Bret Hart was at the Toronto Argonauts vs. Calgary Stampeders CFL game last night at Rogers Centre in Toronto as a special guest. He put a good in the sharpshooter which got a big pop. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 It was really sad with 2006 TNA. You had undefeated Joe, you had Sting vs. Jarrett, LAX vs. Styles/Daniels and you had that awesome Joe/Angle confrontation right before Bound for Glory. Bound for Glory was a pretty good show and they closed the door on the Jarrett era well. Then Russo came in and the product fell apart. I really enjoyed the product that year and it seemed like they were headed in the right direction and then hired Russo. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gregor Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 Fuck him for booking the shittiest Royal Rumble ever and one of the shittiest Wrestlemania's ever.My ugliest confession as a wrestling fan is that to this day I can watch the 1999 Royal Rumble match in its entirety and enjoy it. I understand that it's terrible, but I can't hate it for whatever reason. WrestleMania XV, on the other hand - I was a kid who was obsessed with the WWF at that time, and I cared about the results of maybe two of those matches. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cox Posted October 17, 2011 Report Share Posted October 17, 2011 I attended Wrestlemania XV in person, and the only thing I remember from that show is Bart Gunn getting knocked the fuck out by Butterbean, and I only remember that because I had deluded myself into thinking Bart Gunn was going to wreck Butterbean, and then reality happened. WWE must have really hated Philadelphia, as arguably two of the worst PPVs of the 90's took place there (the other being KOTR '95, another PPV I attended in person). Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 If you want to talk bad PPVs, KOTR '95 and KOTR '99 are absolutely among them. Honestly, I think it's no surprise KOTR eventually died out as a PPV as the majority of them were not good shows overall. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 I love the new talking point about wrestlers/fighters tweeting saying that's not how stars act yet the most of the biggest celebs in the world are active tweeters. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Well to clarify most of the time they specify that they don't mean tweeting period is bad, only when you tweet dumb stuff, tweet while drunk/high, whine about crap, etc... that they think it ruins your aura. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 And to clarify Kriz's point, many of the biggest stars in the world do just that. Christ... Senators are tweeting now. And some of it is dumb stuff. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 It's the way of the world now, TV shows have hashtags at the bottom of the screen, every sports league pimps it during games. It's a big deal now and WWE is just doing their part. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Fuck him for booking the shittiest Royal Rumble ever and one of the shittiest Wrestlemania's ever. If there's one thing that I think sums up Russo's fundamental incompetence, it's that he made the Royal Rumble suck. The Rumble is pretty much the most idiot-proof gimmick imaginable. Booking one is like Mr. Burns telling Darryl Strawberry to hit a home run. It isn't always great, but you have to go out of your way to make it actively shitty. Yet Russo managed to do it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted October 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Dave has never really understood why wrestling companies do anything that doesn't have an immediate impact on house show attendance, PPV buys or ratings. Social networking is more about building brand loyalty, and it keeps fans (err ... the WWE Universe) thinking about WWE more than just when the TV show is on. That's important. Maybe a 10-year old kid follows Randy Orton for three months, likes what he sees, and tells his parents he wants a Randy Orton t-shirt for Christmas. Maybe he makes it a point to go to every house show in his area headlined by Randy Orton. Maybe if not for Twitter, he never would have been a fan at that level. If he thinks that Twitter is only successful if you see a difference in numbers before and after, he doesn't really get social media. He's looking at things on a micro level when social media is really more of a macro thing. It's good to see WWE trying to embrace it. I'd criticize them for not embracing it even more, but this is still very much in its infancy, and many businesses are still trying to figure out a strategy that works. Punk's angle would have been an interesting way to experiment with multi-media storylines in a big way had they had any idea where they wanted to take that whole storyline. The right minds could have done something special. But I have no problem admitting that while the potential is there to do great things, I do wonder about the ability of those running the company to be smart enough to pull it off. They have historically had trouble even aligning their magazines and web site with what happens on screen, so adding another medium will probably just further compartmentalize things. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 It's probably unsurprising that Dave doesn't understand how Twitter/Facebook could help a wrestling company, when he hasn't embraced that technology himself or realised how to use search engine optimisation to his benefit. It's only in the last month or so that f4wonline.com added the option to retweet their news posts and like them on facebook. Other wrestling blogs and sites have been well ahead of the curve on this matter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted October 19, 2011 Report Share Posted October 19, 2011 Fuck him for booking the shittiest Royal Rumble ever and one of the shittiest Wrestlemania's ever. If there's one thing that I think sums up Russo's fundamental incompetence, it's that he made the Royal Rumble suck. The Rumble is pretty much the most idiot-proof gimmick imaginable. Booking one is like Mr. Burns telling Darryl Strawberry to hit a home run. It isn't always great, but you have to go out of your way to make it actively shitty. Yet Russo managed to do it. Royal Rumble 1999 is what killed the WWF fan in me. I was raised on WWF. I discovered westling with WWF in the late 80's. The Royal Rumble was always the most exciting event of my mark days. Russo killed it. After Royal Rumble 1999, I was done with being a WWF fan, for ever. I remember it like it was yesterday. All of a sudden, that was it, I was done with something I followed religiously for 10 years. Sad day. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Rumble 99 was awesome, and it led to one of their biggest "b-show" PPVs ever, the St. Valentine's Day Massacre Austin v. Vince cage match I'm fine with retroactively crapping on the attitude era, because most of that shit does not hold up well, but that was Austin v. Vince at it's peak and it absolutely drew assloads of money for the company Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 I love Vince vs Stone Cold in that Rumble. I'd also thought Rumbles sucked cock for ages before that. Rather than keep the numbers low so people can work and you can track what's going on, they'd just bog down, filling up with bodies, waiting for the Big Guy to come in and throw a bunch of people out. You'd see it year after year after year... same old shit. It got to be a painful match to watch. Even the "great ones", like 1992, don't really hold up as being any good. Probably the most overrated gimmick concept in history: Royal Rumbles. It's too bad the Survivor Series concept crapped out, largely because the WWF didn't know how to book it and wanted to protect folks from even doing job if freaking tag team matches. A well done Survivor Match runs circles around a Rumble concept. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ditch Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Even the "great ones", like 1992, don't really hold up as being any good. Probably the most overrated gimmick concept in history: Royal Rumbles.'92 Rumble absolutely holds up in my view. A variety of subplots, lots of star power leading to pairings we don't normally see, and a below-average amount of deadwood. In general they aren't high-end matches, but in terms of being interesting to watch live and a PPV draw it's one of the best gimmicks. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Is Vinny still the editor for the Observer? So many mistakes in this weeks issue. It seems it gets worse by the week. Like the use of "In" instead of "I" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Even the "great ones", like 1992, don't really hold up as being any good. Probably the most overrated gimmick concept in history: Royal Rumbles.'92 Rumble absolutely holds up in my view. A variety of subplots, lots of star power leading to pairings we don't normally see, and a below-average amount of deadwood. In general they aren't high-end matches, but in terms of being interesting to watch live and a PPV draw it's one of the best gimmicks. I enjoyed it live when it happened. Bored the shit out of me the last time I watched it, which was within the past two years. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 From the latest WON: The 2005 run was a success business-wise, although Hogan didn’t get paid commensurate with it and it left hard feelings, because of the success of Hogan vs. Shawn Michaels as a match (although one still wonders how much the last week virtual promise of Bret Hart showing up had to do with that monster buy rate). Wait, what? The only Bret-related stuff I remember in the buildup was Shawn trolling the fans in Montreal with Bret's Titantron. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted October 20, 2011 Report Share Posted October 20, 2011 Is Vinny still the editor for the Observer? So many mistakes in this weeks issue. It seems it gets worse by the week. Like the use of "In" instead of "I" This isnt the first time that has happened it seems to me that Vinny loves lazy find and replace alls Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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