Dooley Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 One thing I've always wanted to ask the MMA=pro wrestling brigade is why it's only pro wrestling people that see it that way? You never hear anyone from the MMA side proclaim "what we do is pro wrestling!" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 9, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 Well, part of it is that whether he does or not, it comes across like Dave has zero respect for the integrity of sports and thinks every decision should be made for financial reasons only. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 One thing I've always wanted to ask the MMA=pro wrestling brigade is why it's only pro wrestling people that see it that way? You never hear anyone from the MMA side proclaim "what we do is pro wrestling!" Looking for legitimacy for what they do. Â John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dooley Posted February 9, 2012 Report Share Posted February 9, 2012 One thing I've always wanted to ask the MMA=pro wrestling brigade is why it's only pro wrestling people that see it that way? You never hear anyone from the MMA side proclaim "what we do is pro wrestling!" Looking for legitimacy for what they do.  John  I agree 100%. I'm just curious as to how the tin-foil hats would respond Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted February 13, 2012 Report Share Posted February 13, 2012 Following Meltzer's coverage of the TNA ppv tonight, if he mentions the crowd sucking one more time my head may explode. It might be a valid point but god damn do you not need to mention it when talking about practically every match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Not normally in the habit quoting large chunks of Wrestling Observer but I had to here for context. Dave launched a pretty strong attack on WWE and a defense for Rey Mysterio: Â The actual story on Brodus Clay is that Vince McMahon thought he was too unsafe and reckless a worker and doesn't want him out there until he's safer to work with. We don't know if this was something agents told Vince, he came up with watching on his own, or guys who worked with Clay complained to Vince about. There were eyebrows raised about Vince being strong on this issue in trying to protect talent safety and then this past week's Raw putting Henry, Rhodes and to a lesser extent Kingston in television matches when two of the three had no business being out there, and the third was pretty banged up as well. And to the same extent, it was noted that after Mysterio was backstage in San Diego on 2/13, that whenever anyone brought Rey's name up for the rest of the week they got a very negative speech. There's always been the underlying friction based on contract negotiations. Some feel because he's small he's lucky to be in. He moves merchandise like a star. He's probably No. 2 behind Cena with kids when he's out there. He was the key to the Hispanic demo and a legit huge ratings mover in that demo for years. Even as late as 2010 was the second biggest star when it comes to worldwide popularity on the roster due to his international appeal. There is also the tag on him that he's injured so often and they feel he doesn't come back from the injuries as early as they'd like. Of course, in this case, the reason he's out so long is partially because the company exercised poor judgment in having him work several matches after he blew out his bad knee and only made the problems worse. Another interesting thing regarding perception is that since Mysterio started with the company, even though he's had numerous injuries and surgeries, he's still worked more than HHH during the same period (actually considerably more), even though he had a more high flying style, started at the age of 14 and has had a longer career, but nobody ever talks about HHH being injury prone or sitting out longer than he should (nor should they). Even if you take into account that HHH stopped working full time in 2009, between 2003 and 2009, the seven years they both were working full-time, Mysterio worked more dates and missed less time due to injuries in five of those seven years (2006 and 2008 being the only years HHH missed less time). The last time Undertaker worked as much as Mysterio did in 2010 was back in 2001, so there is quite the double standard in perception. Not a shocker I know. But heck yeah Dave. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 Also in the most recent Observer is this paragraph regarding Shaq at Wrestlemania: Â A dynamic has changed, in the sense that originally WrestleMania was the means to an end on 4/1, which was to build the WWE brand up as big as they could, almost regardless of short-term cost, for the kickoff of the new network. When the plans changed on the network start date, WrestleMania was the end on 4/1 and running a profitable show became more important than perhaps a break-even show but garnering lots of publicity. O'Neal's value financially changes greatly with those different dynamics, particularly when you already have Rock headlining the show. Didn't Vince used to be the guy who'd rather lose money off of 500k buys than make money off of 300k? Whose purse are his balls in? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Death From Above Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 He didn't have stockholders to explain a money-losing PPV to back then, did he? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 23, 2012 Report Share Posted February 23, 2012 What's really weird about the Brodus thing is they left him in the RAW and SD openings. You'd think since he was pushed hard for a month and given a showcase spot at the Rumble that they'd at least bother to cover for his absence with some short vignettes. How hard would it be to have 30 second videos of him and the Funkettes traveling around searching for the Mothership or something equally silly? It doesn't do anybody any good to pull him off TV cold. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 Also in the most recent Observer is this paragraph regarding Shaq at Wrestlemania: Â A dynamic has changed, in the sense that originally WrestleMania was the means to an end on 4/1, which was to build the WWE brand up as big as they could, almost regardless of short-term cost, for the kickoff of the new network. When the plans changed on the network start date, WrestleMania was the end on 4/1 and running a profitable show became more important than perhaps a break-even show but garnering lots of publicity. O'Neal's value financially changes greatly with those different dynamics, particularly when you already have Rock headlining the show. Didn't Vince used to be the guy who'd rather lose money off of 500k buys than make money off of 300k? Whose purse are his balls in? Â That was when his company was dying and he desperately needed a spark to get the attention away from WCW. That worked with Mike Tyson in the circumstances at that time. There's no reason to do that now with Shaq, because you aren't trying to get a spark to get new eyes on your product, the idea was to get as much publicity for the Network launching. Now that isn't happening, so why pay Shaq? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 He didn't have stockholders to explain a money-losing PPV to back then, did he? Now he has stockholders he has to explain the WWE's first money-losing quarter in years to. Even if you take the film division and network startup costs out of the equation, they didn't make enough profit to cover dividend payments. Â That was when his company was dying and he desperately needed a spark to get the attention away from WCW. That worked with Mike Tyson in the circumstances at that time. There's no reason to do that now with Shaq, because you aren't trying to get a spark to get new eyes on your product, the idea was to get as much publicity for the Network launching. Now that isn't happening, so why pay Shaq? Because business has been in steady decline for the past few years and he's desperate to turn things around? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted February 25, 2012 Report Share Posted February 25, 2012 He didn't have stockholders to explain a money-losing PPV to back then, did he? Now he has stockholders he has to explain the WWE's first money-losing quarter in years to. Even if you take the film division and network startup costs out of the equation, they didn't make enough profit to cover dividend payments. Â That was when his company was dying and he desperately needed a spark to get the attention away from WCW. That worked with Mike Tyson in the circumstances at that time. There's no reason to do that now with Shaq, because you aren't trying to get a spark to get new eyes on your product, the idea was to get as much publicity for the Network launching. Now that isn't happening, so why pay Shaq? Because business has been in steady decline for the past few years and he's desperate to turn things around? Â But how does bringing in Shaq turn things around? There was a good plan in place with Mike Tyson, and a similar deal with Shaq just doesn't work. When they did it with Tyson, they already felt like their show was better than Nitro, they just needed something big to make people give Raw another chance, and once they did, it wasn't long after that they started winning the ratings war. There is no comparable scenario for Shaq. There is no hook to the show, that you know "well if I can just get new eyes on my show, I'm sure they will stay around." So bringing in Shaq will just do the same thing that bringing in Mayweather did. Get you a lot of mainstream pub, but not really have any effect on your bottom line. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Shaq would have been huge and brought tons of new eyes to the product. To think anything otherwise is ridiculous. WWE craves mainstream attention, Shaq would give you TNT, ESPN, NBA, Twitter, SI, USA Today, talk radio......it would generate the biggest buzz in the sports world they've had in years, probably be a bigger deal than Mayweather  The bottom line is they make money by being larger than life and the only game in town when it comes to wrestling. Shaq furthers that image, and having somebody like him involved only pays dividends in the long run  But, at this point it's way too late to do it. Bring him to the show, start an angle with somebody, pay it off next year. I'd give the spot to Dolph Ziggler, he's a guy they should be building around and could use the exposure, you give him the rub and steadily push him up the card over the next year, give him one of the world titles over the summer, then bring Shaq back in as a surprise entrant at the Rumble and build to a match from there. Ziggler has the size and athleticism to match up with somebody that size, and could carry the match with his bumping. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Dave's lecture to the WWE locker room on this morning's show was fablous both it terms of content and delivery. OWNED. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 I'm kind of surprised how the Rey issue kind of floated by without a lot of fuss when it happened. Looking back, I wonder how much of them wanting to stick it to him for having the nerve to actually make demands at contract renewal time instead of towing the "gee, it's just nice to be part of the WWE Universe" line played into them booking him in matches after his knee was blown. It wasn't like they were doing quickie deals with him either, it was as if they expected his full complement of spots when the guy was clearly working on one leg. He's cut family vacations short when asked, came back early from needed recovery breaks when asked, moved merch and ratings better than anyone not named Cena in the last decade or so, yet as soon as he tries to cash in some of his chips and ask for the same considerations other guys who've moved the dial like he does it's suddenly "fuck this ungrateful bastard". Â I wonder if it's because despite all he's done for the company, deep down he's still a WCW guy to Vince (I doubt he remembers Rey was in ECW first)? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Dave's lecture to the WWE locker room on this morning's show was fablous both it terms of content and delivery. OWNED. What did he say? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Be happy that the Rock has returned to help the bottom line and stop complaining because he didn't shake your hand in the middle of his incredibly busy schedule. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Dave's lecture to the WWE locker room on this morning's show was fablous both it terms of content and delivery. OWNED. What did he say? Â http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_JXNcbpmRs Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Who's been complaining? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Dave subtlety burying his star system in that rant made me laugh. ( I know what he was saying that the wrestlers really shouldn't care about that stuff) Â I wonder who the old time wrestler was? Id say either Harley Race or Superstar Graham Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Be happy that the Rock has returned to help the bottom line and stop complaining because he didn't shake your hand in the middle of his incredibly busy schedule. He was a great help at Survivor Series...... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Be happy that the Rock has returned to help the bottom line and stop complaining because he didn't shake your hand in the middle of his incredibly busy schedule. He was a great help at Survivor Series......  He was, but unfortunately, the booking wasn't. No one could tell me that what they booked was the best they could have come up with. Star ratings are for fans, not for wrestlers. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Dave subtlety burying his star system in that rant made me laugh. ( I know what he was saying that the wrestlers really shouldn't care about that stuff) Â I wonder who the old time wrestler was? Id say either Harley Race or Superstar Graham Harley Race & his traditional backyard BBQ was my guess and the whole "went out to eat" thing sounded like a quick cover to protect him. Raw taped 30th January at the Sprint Center in Kansas City, Missouri too. Â Billy Graham is on the outs with WWE and isnt that social. Someone on F4W suggested Bret Hart but going by his book he isn't obsessed with houses and such like and another suggestion was Terry Funk as he like Harley was an NWA Champion and came from an era where attendances had to be tracked. Â Who's been complaining? No names just references to an observable large vocal minority. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted February 26, 2012 Author Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 CM Punk has complained. Hard to tell when he's working and when he's not, though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted February 26, 2012 Report Share Posted February 26, 2012 Be happy that the Rock has returned to help the bottom line and stop complaining because he didn't shake your hand in the middle of his incredibly busy schedule. He was a great help at Survivor Series......  He was, but unfortunately, the booking wasn't. No one could tell me that what they booked was the best they could have come up with. Star ratings are for fans, not for wrestlers.  Of course the booking sucks. But the booking sucks every day of the year for the regular roster, which is why they "need" the Rock to help them.  The fact is the SS number was FAR worse than most people thought it would be. It doesn't mean the Rock isn't a star and that he won't help at Mania (look at how quick the tickets sold for example), but it does show that he's not a be all and end all Messiah figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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