The Thread Killer

I was really shocked that Low Ki ranked as high as he did, and I say that as a fan of his work in early ROH, I never would have guessed he had the body of work to rank anywhere near that high. He is not on my list. But hey, I guess some people saw things I didn't, in terms of footage and longevity. Also + 1 points for the usage of the phrase "self-serious ponce."

I get that but a little harshness is part of the deal. I don't see it verging into incivility very often. And the tone is so much gentler than it was in earlier days of internet wrestling discussion. I remember reading the Smarkschoice threads and my god there were some vicious exchanges. This. No one has told anyone in seriousness to drink bleach in this thread. No one has started a separate thread suggesting that a specific poster has a mental illness. If someone mentions a poster that hasn't been around in a while, no one else has responded that they hope they are somewhere in a hospital bed dying of AIDS. All of those things happened as part of the 2006 countdown. Michael Elgin hasn't appeared on the list yet, has he? Because if he does, then I reserve the right to... Okay, not really. I have now lost 39 of the names from my Top 100, before we have reached the Top 100. Today's eliminations were not kind to my list.

I'm still getting over the shock of the revelation that Adam Rose has used drugs. This is coming out of left field, I need to lie down with a cold cloth on my head. Nothing in the world makes sense anymore.

I dunno, BIRPITHORAAF is surprisingly easy to say. Thank you so much. I just laughed so hard Dr. Pepper went up my nose.

This X 1000. I have been a Motorhead fan my entire life. When I saw the documentary "Lemmy" I realized that Trips was as big a fan as I. And Trips did a ton for Lemmy and Motorhead. And Lemmy loved Trips. And with apologies to Austin Aries, Lemmy was the Greatest Person Who Ever Lived. So if Triple H loved Motorhead, and Lemmy loved Trips, there is no possible way Trips can be all bad. Lemmy really was one of the most real, authentic people ever. Seeing Lemmy and Trips talk about each other in various interviews, and seeing Trips give his eulogy at Lemmy's funeral made me like Trips a lot more as a human being. Does that mean Trips deserved to be in the Top 100? No. But it was interesting to me. And if you don't like Motorhead and you don't understand Lemmy? Well, I don't mean to be judgmental, but you deserve to get some sort of open sores all over your body which continue to worsen until you eventually expire in agony. And your last words should be "I was wrong about Lemmy. Please play "Killed By Death" at my funeral." There, I said it.

I'm suing Michael Hayes for that picture and I'm naming Grimmas as an accomplice for causing me mental pain and anguish. It's going to take a lot of therapy and medication to get that image out of my brain. Screw you guys.

At this point, I am becoming convinced there is going to be nuclear Armageddon. After which, Keith Richards will buy and continue to run TNA.

in fact... can we still turn in ballots for tag team? Please in fact... can we still turn in ballots for tag team? Please That would be awesome. I was too focused on the singles to really take a crack at tag teams. in fact... can we still turn in ballots for tag team? Please That would be awesome. I was too focused on the singles to really take a crack at tag teams. Thirded. And... Andrei Kopylov got 4 votes ? Wow. That's quite amazing. RINGS fans somewhere. I would like to...uh...fourth this request. If the Tag Ballot is being put off until May, can we still vote on it, please?

I voted for the Sheik based primarily on his work with Abdullah against The Funks in Japan, and on a more peripheral level based on some of his other brawls in Japan throughout the years. He pretty much single-handedly ruled Toronto from 70-78, headlining every Maple Leaf Gardens show and having some semi-historic matches with Andre The Giant as well. Of course, he also owned Detroit (literally) for years as well. He influenced countless "garbage wrestlers" who came afterward. Of course, he couldn't wrestle for shit, he wouldn't do a job to save his life, and he was a delusional weirdo outside the ring (insisting his own family refer to him as The Sheik, including his wife.) The Breaking Kayfabe shoot with Sabu sheds some interesting light on his famous uncle, and the book I have linked in my signature also goes as far behind the curtain with The Sheik as anybody was ever going to get. If I recall correctly, I had The Sheik in my bottom 20 on my list. I readily agree there are plenty of valid arguments for him not being on anybody's list, but for my money he was influential, memorable and despite the imitators there will never be another like him. I just couldn't leave him off my list, for sentimental reasons if nothing else.

Testify. I went back and re-watched the Vader vs. Takada matches from UWF-I and both ended up going up my list after. i forgot how much I loved those matches and how great both guys were in them.

I voted for Brody. He's not in my Top 50, but I voted for him. Just because I don't think he's as great as Dave Meltzer and Larry Matysik do, doesn't mean I don't like him or think he was great at some things. I thought about it long and hard, and the bottom line is that his lack of selling isn't a big deal for me as it is to a lot of other people. I certainly don't rate him as highly as I would have 10-15 years ago, but I am still a fan. I am guessing I will probably end up being the high vote for Sabu, and possibly Jeff Jarrett, especially since I am betting he got very few votes. I know he didn't get totally blanked. As with Brody, Jarrett hardly made the upper class of my list, but he did make it.

You hate them, Will? I can't understand what makes a man hate another man. Help me understand. Charles, that post was outstanding. One of the best wrestling related essays I have read online in a very, very long time. If not ever.

Mine is in. It is now 3:45 am my time, and I have to get up for work in less than two hours. But I knew I wouldn't have time to vote before the deadline (why is opening day for the Toronto Blue Jays the same day as Wrestlemania?) and I wasn't going to let this deadline pass without submitting a ballot. Looking forward to the results. Now I am going to have a nap.

I'm in the exact same boat as you. In Canada, we get to pay more for the Network, but on the plus side, we get LESS content! I ordered it for the Hall of Fame, and Wrestlemania, plus NXT. It pretty much pays for itself with that, plus the Podcasts and other specials, but having no On Demand content sucks.

It sure changed my mind about Hayes. I used to think he was a drunk, racist moron. Now I think he's delusional drunk racist moron, who dresses like Jack Nicholson in Batman. JBL jumped all over the place with his questions, but even worse was Michael Hays claiming that back in the 70's and 80's the Confederate Flag wasn't considered the racist symbol that it is today...that's a recent thing. He actually had the balls to act somewhat puzzled about people thinking he was racist, like JBL had to explain it to him, then he understood. Oh, and he only used "The N Word" because he used to listen to a lot of Richard Pryor albums, so he thought it was okay for people to call each other that. And when he did use it with Mark Henry, he was drunk. And by the way, he's not racist, because he has a black daughter. Well, not black, half-black. Well, she wasn't his daughter, she was his second wife's daughter, from a previous marriage. And she never lived with them when he was with his second wife. And he and his second wife are not together anymore. But he still has a good relationship with her daughter. So...not racist, see? Michael Hays came across as staggeringly disingenuous and self-deluded to me in this interview. He's one of those old timers who is such a carny I think he's actually conned himself into believing some of his own bullshit. We won't even get into the bizarre "If David Von Erich had lived, Fritz might have beat Vince McMahon to nation expansion" theory that he and JBL discussed, or his bizarre answers on the Gino Hernandez questions. "I don't believe he overdosed, but I'm not saying he was murdered, but I'm not saying anything else, no matter how many times you ask."

In my situation, it's more of a case of "what are other people seeing that I'm not?" A couple of years ago, that movie Birdman with Michael Keaton came out. It got very good reviews and a bunch of people I know saw it and raved about it. So I saw it, and didn't like it one little bit. The problem wasn't with the movie, it was that I had heard so much positive going in, my expectations were probably unreasonably high. New Day and Kevin Owens tend to get a lot of love in the so-called "IWC." When I watched RAW, I really couldn't see the appeal. Still can't, but at least now thanks to this thread, I know other people agree with me.

When I saw that the New Day were inducting The Freebirds, I almost choked on my Diet Coke. I wonder if Hayes will come out wearing the Confederate Flag cloak after they introduce him, and then tell them that he's better at being black than they are.

A couple of months ago, somebody started a thread in the Modern WWE folder entitled: "Dean Ambrose: Am I Missing Something?" the gist of which was that they didn't see the big deal about Ambrose, or why other people thought he was a big deal. Last night, due to severe boredom, I watch parts of RAW. Honestly, I couldn't sit through the whole thing, but I watched parts. The Dean Ambrose thread came to mind...but not because of Dean Ambrose, for two other reasons. Firstly - and I hate myself for writing this, since it makes me look like I am agreeing with two people I can't stand, and who can't stand each other, namely Jim Cornette and Vince Russo - but I do NOT get the deal with Kevin Owens. I'm a fat guy, so this isn't fat shaming, trust me. But he just doesn't LOOK like a wrestler. Actually scratch that, aside from the horrible beard and bad skin, he looks like a jobber from the early seventies. Seriously, what the hell? He wears women's leggings covered by goofy looking basketball shorts, and a sleeveless t-shirt. His ring gear is terrible. He has bad acne, and the beard of a homeless man. And as I said, not to be a fat shamer, but dude is pretty damn fat. He's got himself a beer belly there. Chris Hero gets released for his, Kevin gets called up. His promos are for SHIT. Can he wrestle? Absolutely, but nowhere near well enough to make up for his shortcomings. I didn't mind him in Ring of Honor. I loved his team with El Generico, and their feud with The Briscoes. I was there ringside in July 2008 when he fought Nigel McGuiness for the ROH World Title in Toronto. That was ROH. I am not totally unaware of his abilities, but I don't see why people think he's anything special or deserves any sort of special attention in the big time. Am I missing something? Which brings me to act #2. The New Day. For MONTHS I have been hearing about how great these guys are, and how the Dudleys had better not be coming back to beat them, because the Duds suck and are stuck in the 90's while The New Day are the only fresh act on the roster and blah blah blah blah blah. Seriously...WTF? They're annoying as HELL. They dance around, act like idiots, and Consequences Creed plays a damn trombone which is annoying as shit. They're an updated Edge and Christian. With dildo headbands. Big deal and whoop-de-freaking-do. What am I missing with THESE guys? Feel free to answer me, in all sincerity. Tell me what I'm missing, and if you have a "Am I Missing Something" act of your own, feel free to throw that in to this thread too.

If he's smart, I can't see Storm being too upset. He still made the right call. With James Storm I think the bottom line came down to money and working conditions. With TNA he is apparently making better money guaranteed, and has to work less dates, which means less chance of injuries and more time to heal his body from wear and tear. From everything I read, he made the right decision for himself and his family. As much as TNA is a joke, if Storm thinks he is going to get his paycheck every couple of weeks (which with TNA is no safe bet) then he probably made the right call. I am sure he is sad to see Roode and Young go, but it probably won't change his mind about his decision to sign with TNA. I know there are a lot of guys out there who grew up watching WWE, and their ultimate goal is to make it there (and nowhere else will do.) To me the problem is that the landscape there is so fickle. That's what would terrify me if I was a wrestler in my prime. It's not like a normal job, or a sport. If you're a baseball player, and a team signs you, and you can hit a ton, you're going to play and when contract time rolls around, you're going to make money. You control your own fate, as long as you can deliver. Storm is a top guy, no doubt. But if somebody (like say, Kevin Dunn or even worse, Vince) decide you don't have "it" then you're going to be the next Zack Ryder and spend the best years of your career on Superstars, it doesn't matter how good you are. People who have way less talent than you are going to rise above you or stay above you, and there is very little you can do to stop that. One of the few glaring exceptions of somebody who rose above that would be Punk or Danielson, but I'd say they would be the exceptions to the rule, in my opinion. I would guess that a lot of the guys in NXT (or especially the guys who are thinking about going to NXT) see how NXT guys are treated once they get "called up." It's a huge risk, because if you're a decent worker like Storm, you take a pay cut to go to NXT, you get saddled with a shitty gimmick when and if you go to WWE, and end up getting mis-used or released, that ends up hurting your chance to make a decent living in the long run. In some cases you can lose your identity and marketability after you leave. I saw an interview with New Jack of all people. We all know he is notoriously full of shit, and quite possibly insane. However, he said when the WWE bought the ECW library and then ended up restarting the brand, a lot of guys signed deals with the WWE where they got as little as $10,000 for the rights to their names. Then they were used briefly in the new ECW (if at all) and then released. But then they can't legally use their names anymore. I remember when Balls Mahoney had a brief run in TNA, he had to call himself "Kahoneys." Seriously. New Jack said he wouldn't sign the deal, because he knew he'd never make it in WWE, and in his words "ain't nobody going to pay 25 cents to come and see Jerome Young." Not to compare James Storm to New Jack, but there are some parallels when discussing the risks somebody who is already established takes when going to NXT or TNA. What if Storm goes to NXT, does a few months, and then makes it to WWE. They don't use him right, he gets released...what does he do then? Go back to the indies as James Cox? He loses money on that deal, big time. I can't stomach TNA, but I don't want to see them go out of business because of all the guys it would put out of work who will never make it in WWE. (Except for Dixie Carter and Bob Ryder. I would enjoy seeing them out of work and embarrassed by failure.) As much as I'd love to see Storm in WWE and do well, he probably can sleep at night knowing he made the right call for his family.

I don't think he's a pedophile either, at all. I think you and I are probably in agreement about this issue. I guess what irritates me about this story is the fact that trying to be glib while under oath is incredibly arrogant and quite frankly, mind-bogglingly stupid. When you testify in any sort of court proceeding, you know (and your legal counsel should remind you) that every single thing you say (and how you say it) is going to be subject to intense scrutiny and interpretation. Daulerio was either too stupid to know how his comment was going to backfire in his face, or too arrogant to care. I do understand that it is opposing counsel's job to try and trip you up and provoke exactly such a reaction, which makes him doing it all the worse. Hogan's lawyers must have been overjoyed when he reacted like that. He had to know that he should be giving short, precise answers and keeping his opinions to a minimum. It was Daulerio's arrogance and Gawker Media's arrogance that got them in this mess, so as I said I am having a hard time feeling sorry for them, even though it looks like the judge was biased against them from the get go. Once again, if what I have read is true, Gawker was basically thumbing their nose at the judge from the moment lawyers got involved in this situation, and it came back to bite them in the ass in a huge way. It sounds like the general consensus is that Gawker will be able to get this decision reversed or reduced on appeal, but even getting to that point will cost them a small fortune. I would hope that Denton is placing the blame for most of this on Daulerio's shoulders, but I don't know if that has been covered anywhere or if anybody knows the real reaction is behind the scenes at Gawker?

Okay, you lost me right there. Are you saying Hulk Hogan or somebody representing Hulk Hogan would misrepresent the truth? I just find that hard to believe, and totally out of character for the man.

He probably should have chosen his words on the stand a lot more carefully, then. According to the AP, this guy said the only situation where a sex tape would not be newsworthy is if it included a child under the age of four...and that he doesn't think it's a bad thing to publish a sex tape without the participant's consent. If Gawker media goes down the tubes because of this lawsuit, it's because of that moron's brilliant management skills more than anything. I have a hard time mustering up any sympathy for anybody involved in either side of this situation...Hogan, Bubba, Denton, Daulerio, the whole thing was like one big sleazebag parade.

Thanks for the link. When it comes to giving interviews and doing publicity, in my opinion Dynamite is an interesting case. If you've read Pure Dynamite it seems obvious to me the book was basically written by his co-author from a series of transcribed interviews, based on the style of the writing. I would speculate Alison Coleman got him to warm up, and actually elaborate on answers when he talked about his career, and then she crafted it into a fairly readable autobiography (which ignores some of the sensitive issues like the alleged domestic abuse and his reputation as a locker room bully. These issues kind of get touched on, but clearly from his perspective, as you can imagine.) Sad to hear about the rumored stroke, but I think the Highspots documentary of a few years ago went quite a long way to de-mystify the whole "Billington is an eccentric recluse" theory. I do believe that he is more than happy to give interviews - especially when he gets paid for them - but the fact of the matter is that he is a rather introverted person and isn't much of a talker. He never was a talker, he has always said he preferred to let his work speak for itself. When it comes to getting details out of a guy like him, any half decent journalist will tell you that there is an art to putting somebody at ease when you interview them, meet with them a few times, develop some kind of professional relationship, establish a rapport so the subject (rightly or wrongly) doesn't think you're going to do a total hatchet job on them. To me the perfect example of this was when Mick Wall wrote the ultimate behind-the-scenes book about Led Zeppelin by doing just that with Jimmy Page. ("When Giants Walked The Earth.") He ended up getting more details about the inner workings of Zeppelin than I think any reporter ever has out of Jimmy Page. (And once the book came out, Page stopped talking to him and denied a bunch of the stories, but such is the nature of celebrity interviews, I guess.) Unfortunately, it seems like 99% of the guys who do wrestling shoot interviews walk in, plunk down a couple of grand on the table, and then ask questions from their print-out sheet. "What are your memories of the Royal Rumble? Do you have any funny Iron Sheik stories?" You get the odd Jim Cornette, Vince Russo, or Kevin Nash who are love with the sound of their own voices and will talk anyhow, or you get The Honkytonk Man and his ilk who want to use the interview as a forum to bash people with whom they have an axe to grind - but if these wrestling interviewers knew how to interview, we'd probably have a lot more good interviews with people like Tom Billington who are hard to get answers out of. I found it humorous when Highspots marketed the documentary as being something they decided to do after they filmed a shoot interview with him and found SO much material that they HAD to make a full on documentary. It was the story they HAD to tell. It's pretty damn obvious watching that movie that he was uncomfortable giving the interview so he ended up giving one or two word answers to practically every question. On top of that, he was speaking so quietly and the sound was so bad, they had to subtitle him (so you could SEE him say "yes" and "no.") They did luck out getting some half decent interview subjects for the documentary, most notably Bret Hart and Billington's daughter who talked about their estrangement. But to me, it's clear they made the documentary because if they hadn't, the "shoot" would have been about 45 minutes of Tom Billington mumbling one or two word responses to lame questions. The Dynamite Kid is an interesting character. You can't deny he had a huge influence on a bunch of wrestlers that came after him, yet by many accounts he was a pretty horrible person to be around in the locker room (and at home if you believe reports.) He gets the old "great worker/bad person" label a fair bit when people ask about him. It's always interesting to hear his version of events, if you can actually get it.

I have seen hours and hours of his matches, and I came into this thread to share memories and condolences. It annoys me to see the thread instead cluttered up with unnecessary stupidity. I don't like to derail this thread, but since you admittedly know NOTHING about Hayabusa, why not limit your response to either a simple "RIP" or "I haven't seen much if any of his work, so I am not qualified to offer an opinion" or even better...SAY NOTHING. I own the (sigh) RF Video 4 Volume Best of Compilation, (which if you put aside the source is actually an excellent chronicle of his career.) I also own a ton of FMW on top of that. I have seen most of the highspots his career which was tragically cut short. He may not have been everybody's cup of tea but the talent was undeniably there. In a sport where so many blend in to the crowd, he managed to be somewhat unique and stood out in the freak show that was FMW. His career ending too soon was tragic, his passing is even more so obviously. RIP.

Good point...Pain and Passion is excellent too.