khawk20

That's about what I expected. McAdam has always been an AWA hater too, similar to Meltzer..."Another unmarried Marriage Counselor", so to speak.

Rick Martel had his career curtailed by injury, but came back for his run against Booker T in WCW long enough to make viewers realize that he could still go (before he got hurt again). I suppose Martel could be looked at as an example of someone that realized they should stop/cut back a lot when their injuries began to pile up and get worse in scope. In his case, the right time to hang 'em up was when his body told him to...and he listened.

Yeah. Bock ended his AWA run in the first week of August 1987, went to Japan for a few weeks at the end of that month, then segued over to the WWF to do colour commentary for a bit. After Japan, he was basically done in the ring except for the odd special match and his stint as WCW Commissioner. In Bock's case, he could still go when he quit, which is rare in the sense that he was having really good matches only a couple of months before he stopped wrestling full-time. He never got to the point where people were actively talking like he should retire because he looked bad in the ring, or out of shape. He was an anomaly, though. The list of mid-to-late 50-year-old wrestlers that retired from the ring at that point and still looked good is likely a pretty short one.

That's not unusual, there is a lot of AWA "ignorance" on WC. It'll be an uphill climb to get most of the board even interested in the idea of how much Blackwell meant to the AWA. Most seem to be stuck in "Verne was stoopid!!!!11" mode these days.

The thing about that spot was it was done over a few minutes, with three or four attempts to get back into the ring by the face, so it became plausible to the viewer that the face had time to recover his strength and get a second wind in that timespan.

If Lawler's comebacks = Warrior's comebacks, all babyface comebacks = Warrior's comebacks. Yeah, because that's what they all did, no-selling with a little visual gimmick thrown in : Ricky Morton, Tito Santana, Ricky Steamboat, Randy Savage, Brad Armtrong, Atsushi Onita, Chigusa Nagayo, Bob Backlund, Bret Hart... well, I could go on and on. Some did the no-sell routine, it worked for Hogan, Sting, Lawler, Warrior, even Tatanka (oh yeah), but not every babyface in wrestling was about making a comeback by just stopping selling for the heel. I don't care for this stuff, it annoys me every time. The AWA had a simple comeback spot for the faces that almost all of them used at some point: Face gets dominated for a bit, gets thrown out of the ring, and the heel refuses to let them back into the ring (attack from inside the ring, inturrupt the refs count with a kick, etc.). Eventually the face gets mad, slams a ringside table or the apron, and forces his way back into the ring. The Heel immediately begs off and the face goes on the attack. They didn't quit selling for the heels, they just got mad and took over. I always found it both believable and effective.

I think he likely would have done even worse had he done that. I think he was just too small for anyone but his Dad to push. He likely would have done worse for the simple fact that the High Flyers were one of the most over, best drawing and best working tag teams of the 70s/80's and it's highly unlikely that degree of success would have been replicated elsewhere no matter what his degree of talent. One of the great problems with Greg is that his work from 85-90 is abundantly available and has been seen by most people with some sort of AWA exposure. His best stuff was from the era that there is very little film available for by comparison, that being 1974-83. People have a hard time believing Greg was ever over based on how they saw him in the last few years of his career. It's a problem that won't go away anytime soon and it inherently brings down any talk of the High Flyers being a "great" team.

I think you've got it right, although I had a big c-band dish so my viewing was all over the place anyways. I do remember never getting TBS in Thunder Bay for some reason having to do with the tv/radio monopoly in this town that has been in place forever, yet a town of 2000 45 minutes up the road got TBS and a bunch of other good stations in the clear all the time. This was a serious issue with be before we got the dish.

Not necessarily, although it's hard to put some masked wrestlers in context. There was a real aura around most of them way-back-when, and that IMO contributed to their drawing power.

Just awful.

Raw did a 2.7 on Monday. Not unexpected against the return of MNF accordint to Herb (which makes sense, I guess), but still...ouch.

That is also the only one on film.

Possibly, but I wouldn't say that was a for-sure. Even the sharpest promoter I think eventually would have fallen trying to compete with Vince on a national level. Verne had some good talent but not enough to spread out and gain inroads in smaller, non-traditional AWA markets. One thing Vince had was enough wrestlers to run 2 or 3 shows a night. Even if they were shitty shows, it was getting the WWF name out there which, combined with the expanding TV market, gave the illusion that the WWF was the "best" game in town. Vince had some terrible crowds in the Twin Cities after their debut show on 6/17/84, all the way through until Thanksgiving 1985. Still, he didn't pull out of that area because he knew he had to gain the upper hand in the home base of the AWA to ultimately take them down. Vince did not want Verne to have even one fall-back market once his expansion ideas fizzled out...and by 1987, he really didn't with the AWA being down to crowds of 1000 in the ancient Minneapolis Auditorium on a good night. One of the things about the AWA that made it successful before 1984 ultimately hurt it badly after 1984: The old stars of the area (Crusher, Raschke, Greg Gagne, Lary Hennig, Bruiser) crossed over from crafty veterans to over-the-hill very quickly. Nobody could replace Crusher's overwhelming popularity in the AWA, and unfortunately by 1984 he was pretty much a parody of his former self. There were many factors that lead to the demise of the AWA. Verne's business sense in the "modern age" of TV and pro wrestling was a part of it, but not all of it, and I consider it unfair to place all the blame on him.

I believe Bob didn't want to go in becasue he still considered himself an active worker, with a chance to get pushed again. He saw the HOF offer as something for retired wrestlers. So I've heard.

This ties into my last post in the sense that Dave would need a complete reprogramming of his brain to recognize JYD as a HOF candidate. Dave's hate for "Junkfood Dog" was crazy. No way he recognizes JYD as anything HOF worthy unless a lobotomy is involved.

The best way to compare him is probably to find someone else whose career path in the AWA is mimicked by another wrestler in another area. By career path, I mean with a hot debut and a continued ability to be a continuous draw through a changing environment, with different alliances, partners, and feuds, in the same territory. This may be a piece of the definition of a comparable that you're looking for, but in Blackwell's case that may have to be the crux of the whole comparison. I don't know who that wrestler might be. On Dave and the AWA: I think that the older AWA guard that were big in the 60's and 70's is reasonably represented, in so much as Dave saw those guys as much as he would have seen pretty much everyone else (relatively little would be my guess, given the lack of national tv back then and the lack of footage on the stars of the era. We're all in that boat at some point in wrestling history or another depending on our age...). jdw isn't wrong about initial representation of AWA wrestlers compared to other territories from where I sit. From my readings of the WON it has always been clear to me that the AWA was seen in a hugely negative light in the 1984-90 era. If that was the first real tv exposure that Dave ever had to the AWA, it explains a lot...his complaints against the AWA from 84-90 are echoed by many. I also think that part of the problem is that Dave relied on his correspondents from the area to formulate his opinion on the AWA from 84-90. His correspondent(s) never seemed to have many good things to say. If your initial impression of something is negative, it's a more difficult to have your mind changed to a positive impression. As such, the work of a guy like Blackwell from 1980 - 85 has *less* chance of being recognized and championed by Dave and other voters with the same negative impressions of the AWA they may have gained when they started to see the AWA nationally between 1985 and 1990. Buddy Rose is in the same boat insofar as his AWA tag title reign with Doug Somers was seen as a bad joke at the time. Somers being a career jobber-to-low-mid-card guy given the spot with Rose did not help. A lack of quality opponents outside of Jannetty and Michaels did not help. Rose/Somers comparisons to the champs of the WWF and NWA did not help. Was Rose awesome in the AWA? People looking at it with a critical eye 25 years after the fact would likely tell you "yes". The impression at the time that many fans who are possibly now voters would have had would have been less than positive. In Blackwell's case, his face turn and Brody feud is good on it's own but even better when you know the context of the turn...that context being Blackwell's lengthy time as The Most Hated Man on the AWA Planet. Hell, even the Brody feud only helps in a limited capacity given the no-shows and the lack of a clean win for Blackwell when all was said and done. Unfortunately, Blackwell could not keep up the schedule he wrestled from 1980 - early 84 because of his health, and that also limited viewers in the post-84 era to what they saw of him. I believe Blackwell is a worthy candidate, but I understand the challenge of getting him elected, as that challenge is the same for anyone not yet in that had a more solid pre-WON career than post-WON career.

If it's true that HHH embraces the old school, watches it, studies it, and tries to employ old school ideas and techniques in his matches, then I should really like the guy...or should have liked him at some point. ...but I have never liked him one bit, not his look, style, or promo ability. I SHOULD have liked him at some point, even briefly, but I never have.

It all depends on how much of this content you're going to bring over there to argue in favour of Blackwell as a HOF candidate. There are some informed AWA guys over there but not many, so posting information for discussion might be better as opposed to asking for opinions first, and then posting discussion information. Guys whose opinions you will want to seek out over there include Clawmaster, Tamalie, and Chitown Rich if he still posts there. There may be a few others but most of what I reaad on the AWA there is in the "boy they sucked, Verne was stoopid" range of opinion. Perhaps that's different in the WON HOF Forums as opposed to the regular board but I don't know. Alternately I may drag this stuff over to a private AWA forum I frequent, to get opinions and additional information. Anything I gather there I'll bring over here, of course.

One fo my all time favourite matches, and I would say there's about 5 minutes missing off the front. I'd love to see the other bout in full someday, the end run from it is fantastic.

Save for a possible TV squash or two, I think this is everything available on tape from Tito in the AWA. Listings are from my AWA Tito Comp I did a few years back: 2) The Tito Santana-Sheik Kaissie TV Sword Angle. **NOTE: I edited the version from an AWA PPV (in EX quality) with a regular TV version (not so great quality) to show as much of this as possible. Santana was Kaissie’s first target upon Sheik’s entrance into the AWA. (2:25, F/EX-) 3) Tito Santana vs. Sheik Adnan El-Kaissie (5/14/81, Winnipeg). Complete match in wake of the Sword Angle. (13:40, VG) 4) Nick Bockwinkel (AWA Champion) vs. Tito Santana (5/13/82, Winnipeg, JIP around the 7 minute mark ). Santana challenges for the title in a really fun bout. (19:13, VG) 5) Tito Santana vs. Nick Bockwinkel (Minneapolis 3/1/81, JIP.) A “Top Contender” bout from Minneapolis. Verne Gagne was Champ at this time. (8:45, VG+) 6) A Tito Santana interview after a title challenge in Milwaukee (August 1981). Tito vows revenge against any and all members of the Heenan family in the wake of a loss to Nick Bockwinkel. (1:20, VG-) 7) Tito Santana vs. Bobby Duncum (3/25/82, Winnipeg, JIP). Tito taking on the Heenan family. (6:41, VG-/VG **some picture flash**) 8) Tito Santana vs. Ken Patera (11/5/81, Winnipeg, JIP). Another one vs. the Heenan family. (8:47, VG-/VG) 9) After the above bout, Tito attacks and Piledrives Bobby Heenan before Patera can save him. (1:05, VG+) 10) Tito Santana vs. Billy Robinson (9/24/81,Winnipeg, JIP). A good scientific bout with tempers a touch on edge. (10:55, VG+/EX-) 11) Greg Gagne/Jim Brunzell (AWA Tag Champs) vs. Tito Santana/Rick Martel (St. Paul, July 18 1982, JIP). We get 5 tremendous minutes of a 30 minute match. Great action! (5:10, VG/VG+) 12) Greg Gagne/Jim Brunzell (AWA Tag Champs) vs. Tito Santana/Rick Martel (St. Paul, August 29, 1982, JIP). The rematch is another stellar bout. (15:20, VG/VG+) BONUS BOUTS **I’ve included these bouts at the end of the DVD because they deserve to be here, but the VQ isn’t very good. a) Tito Santana vs. Sheik Kaissie (Minneapolis, 5/10/81). Short match, very similar to the Winnipeg bout except the beginning of the bout is done opposite of Winnipeg. They probably switched things up every other night as the match went town to town.) 5:11, F/G Tito Santana/Buck Zumhofe vs. Ken Patera/Bobby Duncum (AWA TV, 1982). Tito and Buck sign an open contact to get the bout on TV. Another great “broken boom-box” moment for Buck, and a big Hulk Hogan save at the end. 8:00, G/VG- c) Tito Santana vs. Jerry Blackwell (Winnipeg 12/11/80, JIP). Good bout. Some tremendous agility shown by Blackwell in a few spots. (12:17, F/VG-)

I think the turnaround late in the year is directly correlated to Verne selling to Blackjack and Bockwinkel (however that exactly worked). I also think people got used to watching the matches on TSN somewhat...there would have been no regional blackout for that show. If you knew that the card was "iffy", and that you could watch it over the course of a month on TSN (save for the odd match which didn't air, but most of them did), you might be likely to take a month or two off going to the shows and instead wait until you saw the talent level/booking rebound when they promoted it locally. TSN started in September of 1984, and the wrestling was a staple show from the start (I remember getting a converter box and a subscription to TSN and Muchmusic as a Christmas gift, lol). Eventually, I think it had an effect on business to a degree. So factors in the 1985 Winnipeg attendance downturn could possibly be attributed to (a) poor booking of debuting stars and established draws, (b ) All the matches airing on TSN shortly after the cards were held, © TVs being done the day before at times taking away from the big shows gate the next night, and (d) some WWF influx into the market, at least via TV at this point. For the other areas where attendance suffered a significant downturn, I would place (a) and (d) in the mix as primary factors, (a) being the most prevalent.

Verne certainly didn't help himself, no doubt. I think the numbers in Winnipeg did get better after the incredibly poor summer, however: May 1984: 3628 1985: 1900 June 1984: 2620 1985: 1864 July 1984: NO CARD 1985: 3224 August 1984: 5964 1985: 4208 (w/TV at High School) September 1984: 4708 1985: 3600 October 1984: 8920 1985: 3528 November 1984: 4376 1985: 6012 December 1984: 3584 1985: 5928 January 1985: 5685 (Arena TV) January 1986: 6800 It might be reasonable to assume that the lower 85 numbers vs. 84 for most of the year can be partially attributed to a lack of "new" star power. 84 had new face Blackwell, Brody, Bundy, Road Warriors debut and push, and new champ Martel, all very compelling "new" draws for the terroitory. 85 had the Freebirds, Garvin, Slaughter, Superstar and Zurkov as "new" draws..compelling, but not as much in my mind as the 84 newbies, both situationally and as in 'new wrestlers'. The 84 feuds and matchups were also much better, with stories that wrote themselves (Blackwell turns good! Will Bock regain the title from martel right away? Holy shit, look at The Road Warriors!). 85 had the Freebirds vs. The Old Men and Young Kids, Martel defending against Bockwinkel AGAIN, Martel vs. Zurkov (done well, but only really ever done here, probably because they didn't have the confidence in it to run it in other markets), The Roadies running out of real title challenges by year-end, and Slaughter vs. less-than-compelling foreign heels like Tonga and Saito. Verne brought in talent that should have worked, but how he matched them up in trying to build them wasn't good. Baron, Crusher, Larry Hennig, Buck Zumhofe, and other veterans of the area being used as fodder for the new guys did nothing for their buildup. Reed SHOULD squash Raschke. Even the die-hard AWA fan saw this, and when the old guys did well, even in losing, it didn't make you say "I wonder how a Martel-Reed matchup will go?" It made you say "The Irwins just got beat by Hennig and Zenk. The Roadies will CRUSH them." I hope my analogies are making sense. Add in the WWF product becoming more and more recognizable and viewable by the fans in the area (and the "wer're the best" branding taking hold in the fans minds, something the WWF did better than anyone, period), and I see the slip in attendance being multi-faceted. The numbers were mostly down but honestly the trends were similar to 84, just with smaller numbers. ..and make no mistake, losing Winnipeg after drawing so well in the last three months of their run there had to have really stung the AWA as a whole.

...but maybe it'll get Blackwell On the ballot!

Blackwell in 1985—my general comments: First thing to note is that the AWA did two types of TV. One was arena matches for TSN, specifically taped for TSN Wrestling in Canada. This began in and around late fall of 1984. That continued right through the end in January 1986. The second type of TV was done at a local High School. Some of those matches made TSN occasionally, more towards the end of their run, but I have always assumed most of those TV’s were done for the local AWA TV show that wasn’t affiliated with TSN. I do not have much AWA Winnipeg TV, but it’s all I can think of when they would run a card with 10 squashes on it, most of which never saw the light of day on TSN. Bockwinkel vs. Hennig was just a mid-card match at this stage. Good matchup but no real angle or stipulation that I can recall. Curt was coming into his own as a singles worker but at this time the idea was to promote him as a viable compliment for tags against the LOD (mostly with his father a bit later on). Gagne and Brunzell’s reunion match on this card (first tag-up since Brody injured Gagne’s knee) was an important element of this show as well. As noted in the 84 post, 2000 was a standard number there in the ESPN TV era and that number always looked very close to a sell-out. The 3-6000 numbers we have seen for that venue makes me wonder what the capacity actually was, and how much the room could be configured or re-configured for shows. So yeah, I would say 3 grand is a good number for sure. Only caution I would put here is that I suspect Superstar might have been announced as a replacement very late, if not at the show itself, and if that’s the case, I would suspect it hurts future Blackwell-Brody bookings later on. Slaughter still being fresh is important here as the Slaughter-Blackwell team was definitely looked at as a threat to the LODs title reign, possibly the last viable one left in the fans minds. My assumption for this, the Alaska shows, and some of the other spots they tried to run is that instead of working on protecting their “home turf”, Verne thought spreading the AWA out to be even bigger was the way to go. Verne was a stubborn man and convinced that the AWA style was the style that the fans would prefer to see over the WWF. Up until this point, the AWA was holding up well against the invasion of the WWF in the Twin Cities and most of their other regular areas, so his confidence that they could translate that into more success in more places would have been at it’s peak. I used to know who Brunzell subbed in for in the title match there, but I can’t remember now. I *think* it might have been Superstar, who was moved over to fight Blackwell when Brody no-showed. I assume the Moose Morowski sub is for Bockwinkel. Brunzell could also be subbing in for Jim Garvin here. The Garvin-Martel match is also their blowoff, and featured “Bertha Von Raschke” in the corner of Martel to counteract the interference of Precious. The interviews with The Baron in drag are really funny stuff. As I recall Verne owned a piece of St. Louis at one point in the 80’s, and maybe it was around this time. The Central States influence is noteworthy, but there are also elements of the St. Louis “bring anyone in” mentality that made it a unique place to see wrestling. Verne had his ribs injured either during or after this match by Adnan et al, and it lead to the Chicago version of Star Cage later on. Verne also liked to keep track of events over years that kept feuds going, and this match was mentioned often in the build to Wrestlerock as a big reason Verne wanted Adnan in the cage if Greg and Snuka beat Brody and Nord. The point was Pro Wrestling USA was going at this time, and these NJ shows were an offshoot of that promotion in the sense that there were suddenly AWA guys on TV in that region. I’m sure Brunzell must be a sub for someone else in Salt Lake. Garvin, perhaps? As noted, these shows were tied into PW USA. Aud/Arena was used for shows that were “average” in terms of expected draw. I think that’s around the normal number for it. McNichols would get some “bigger” shows here and there. I think Denver attendance can largely be compared to Winnipeg’s attendance in terms of the ebb and flow of the numbers. I have talked to guys in Denver that attended many shows there and that seems to be what they wre implying without giving me anything more than a guess on the numbers. So, this is an ok number in my estimation. Pro Wrstling USA Show, and of note Blackwell got called on his health problems in New Jersey at the big shows. He was forced to sit out the tag team battleroyal at the first PWUSA show, *think* because of high blood pressure. As I recall, McMahon made sure that the New Jersey Commission was aware of the potential health concerns of Blackwell and compelled them to check it out.Vince did this on more than one occasion in different places during his was with the AWA et al. I would guess that Blackwell was kept out of New Jersey after the first time it happened because of that. Star Cage 85, also televised closed-circuit in the Twin Cities. The April shows were beginning to become “special” shows in the Twin Cities. I actually think Verne expected a full sell-out with this one on his latest comeback alone, so the number might be considered a disappointment despite how it compares to other numbers in St. Paul from 85. I get the tag team spectacular theme of the show but Martel really should have defended on it, IMO. Star Cage in Chicago. This is the revenge spot for Verne from a few months back when he reffed a match between these teams and got attacked. Zbyszko had no real push in Winnipeg up until this show, so the Main event would have been a “WTF” for most fans. Part of the problem with Zbyszko is that they began his push after he had achieved complete mid-card status in the AWA, drawing with the likes of Curt Hennig and being massacred by Dusty Rhodes in a one-shot appearance by Rhodes in June 1984. I don’t remember if he had the Americas Title yet but in Winnipeg, who would have cared about it anyway? I think Roberts actually subbed for Gordy against Martel…he and Hayes had a coin flip for the match. I’ve stated it before, but the Freebirds either in singles or as a team did not draw well in the AWA at all. Roadies-Freebirds was the occasional exception but they never really ran it when they should have. They never programmed compelling opponents with them, often going with makeshift 6-man teams with older stars that didn’t mesh well with the Birds, with no real story to build the matches. Hayes as a singles challenger feuding with Martel was absolutely the wrong choice in the sense that it came right after Garvin…it felt like the same series of matches all over again. Bruiser and Crusher were at the end of the line, and even their biggest supporters knew it. That tag main event sells out as late as 1983, I bet. The Slaughter-Gagne vs. Bock/Stevens matches came off of the “Gagne in Boot Camp” vignette that turned Greg into Rambo Greg Gagne for a bit. Good matchup but a rematch of Hayes-Martel did not help at all (refer to my previous comments on that pairing), and while the Irwins were decent challengers and the matches were good, by this point the Roadies looked completely unbeatable AND were fan favourites, so nobody was showing up to see if they would lose. Of note here is Zurkov attacked Martel after the match and laid him out cold with his head, setting up their trilogy. The Gagne-Bockwinkel bout was a “Sleeper” match (must win with the Sleeper) and was promoted as such. From tape I’ve seen of the two tags on top, I would guess this was in the 2-3000 range, like the previous shows. Originally it was going to be Martel and Crusher vs the Freebirds, but either Crusher pulled out or they changed the main event late because Crusher was not selling tickets (I think it was both. Crusher had a history of holding Verne up for more money before big shows and Verne probably saw the advanced sales and said “fuck you” this time). Hennig and Martel is a more compelling team IMO, but it wasn’t back in 1985 as Curt was not getting any sort of main-event push yet. Some Chicago people I have talked to went to this show went specifically for Robinson-Flair…”Student vs. Teacher” was how a lot of the tv interviews were promoted leading up to it. Some wrestlers were actually noted to have snuck out to see this one. Robinson-Flair was intriguing to a lot of people even with Robinson notably past his prime. Not sure why doing a TV one night and a big card the next night would be considered stupid. Some of those matches were used on TSN and the rest likely on whatever local tv they still had, either that or kept in the can for future use on TSN. The concept makes sense to me. The AWA was brought in with the Muscular Dystrophy association to hold this card, called “Wrestle for a Cure”. It was broadcast on local TV and proceeds from the event were donated to the MDA (right around telethon time, after all). The matches were notably short (10-12 minutes max for each, including the AWA title match…it was a 10 minute draw!) This was held I think at Boston university, and I would peg the attendance at a near sell-out, which I think was around 5,000 for this venue. Sounds like you might need this for the AWA 80’s project. The clear headliner and what the show was built around was Slaughter-Zurkov, FWIW. If not, it was in Roy Wilkins Auditorium adjacent to it. The setup for the bouts around the ring make me think it’s NOT the Civic Center, but it could just be an odd configuration to make the TV look fuller. I have seen them do that later on in 1986 and in 1989 for shows for this reason. I believe by this point, Verne had sold his interest in Winnipeg to Lanza and Bockwinkel. The whole story is over on Kayfabe memories somewhere, but Jack Lanza became a big part of why the AWA left Winnipeg after January of 1986…around when Jack went to work for Vince. I never got why they only had about 40-50 people around ringside. The rest are all in the bleachers which were not close to the ring at all. Really strange visual for this show. Too bad because Martel-Tsuruta is my favourite of all of their matches, and the Garvin-Regal title win deserved to be seen by a lot more people than that. The big seller for this card was the teaming of “forever enemies” Bockwinkel and Vachon, to take on the Russians. That match is a fun sprint if you haven’t seen it yet. Looking at the rest of that lineup I’d say that it drew pretty well. Stan Lane is a typo also, it should be Buddy lane, advertised as a local product. He would challenge Regal for the Jr. title there at some point. Lol…one more note about the tv: The High School it was held in did not have a big capacity, so maybe you had a hundred people in there watching the matches. Those TVs had zero effect on the big show in Winnipeg. The number is still better than mostly anything they did in St. paul since April, though. LOD trying to regain their titles against competition so obviously inferior would have drawn some folks out (“how could they lose?” mentality), plus the Hansen-Martel feud was running pretty hot at this point Tv-wise. Nord and Stomper were new Sheiks Army guys so Blackwell is at least in a “get the Sheik” sort of angle here. I’m ok with this number based on the rest of the year. The drop from early 1985 to the end of it overall was huge.

Ah. No go with him then, he was pretty much done by then.