DMJ

EDIT - Sorry, just learned how to upload an image into here.

I'm so glad to have read this here - I actually came on just to note how much I think this match is getting slept on. I get it that people expected a squash, I understand that people wanted a squash, but Nia Jax has never looked invincible and Alexa Bliss, at least in my opinion, has lived up to the "5 Feet of Fury" thing by being sneaky and clever and taking cheapshots and shortcuts. As you said, she gouged eyes and went after the legs. Plus, by giving this 10 minutes, I thought it was a nice way to keep the RAW Women's Title looking equal to the SmackDown despite Charlotte/Asuka getting more pageantry, better card placement, etc. A totally above average match that told a great story from beginning to end (love Mickie James getting tossed around early) and gave the crowd a feel-good moment late in the show.

I'm as confused as everyone else it seems about this Roman booking. I mean, he really has nowhere to go now it seems. Even the heel turn so many have been clamoring for would make little sense now - what would the impetus be? He didn't get screwed, he lost clean and decisively. And, as others have pointed out, by kicking out of a half-dozen F5s, he comes off less likeable than AJ and Strowman and others who've been put down by 1. Again, as others have said, they fucked Roman in multiple ways. First, by trolling the audience and having him kickout of Lesnar's finish multiple times, teasing the anti-Reigns audience into booing him even more. Then, by having him lose the match - a match which was layed out so poorly that, if you wanted to say Lesnar and Reigns only "know 2 moves" and are repetitive and boring, well, here's all the ammo you'll ever need. It truly is an incredible feat what they did there - they made Reigns look like a chump in kayfabe by losing, they helped build the case that Roman sucks as a performer (despite having several outstanding matches over the past 2 years), they still managed to make it seem like he's been "forced down our throats" by having him kickout of multiple F5s, and they also went with having The Guy Who Only Does It For The Money defeat The Guy Who Does It Because Its In His Blood. I can't think of any reason why they went with Lesnar over Reigns at Mania. If Reigns wins in Saudi Arabia, it won't help either. At all. They've fucked him. And, thus, they've fucked themselves and wasted 3 years.

I liked this match more than most. I think part of that had to do with the way I watched the show - I didn't bother with the first two hours (and really can't understand anyone who thought that was worth watching), watched the first 60 minutes on Sunday night, then broke up the next 4 hours over the course of the day - a match or two here, two or three there, finishing with the last two bouts as I cooked dinner. Unlike the crowd, I was super psyched when this match started - loved Nakamura's entrance, always get hype when AJ shows up, and while I thought it started slow, I found the last 10 minutes to be fantastic. I thought this was Nakamura's best showing since his debut and AJ, as always, was excellent throughout. I thought the finish great too - a Kinchasa counter into a Styles Clash? Hot dog! Then, the post-match angle. Great piece of business that, as someone else said, was even greater because we'd seen it not happen after Asuka/Charlotte. I don't use half-stars on my blog and I also typically include post-match angles as part of a match's score, so I'd say its a 4 (aka a "should watch"/"must watch").

I really liked this match, but I preferred Gargano/Almas actually. I wrote it on my blog, but as few will read that, I'll just say it here too: I know its wrong to criticize a match for what it didn't deliver rather than just focusing on what was done and whether it was effective or not, but yeah, I think there's something to be said for the expectation of violence and that, in 2018, that can still mean blood and furniture damage. Obviously, this was not a "soft" match and, in terms of emotion, had more weight than maybe any other grudge match in WWE history, but I still have that nagging feeling that it didn't quite live up to my expectations. Admittedly, that's not necessarily a fair judgment to make, but its what prevents me from going all the way to MOTY status. 4-stars, but not the 4.5 that Almos/Gargano was (on my scale, I don't do quarter stars, so a 4 is an excellent/"must watch" match and a 4.5/5 is a rare, all-time masterpiece).

I was not as high on this. Part of it, to me, was the context. After everything we'd seen in the ladder match to open up the show, starting the match with such a loose structure and then, in general, keeping that loose structure going meant that they were going to have to bust out every signature move/high spot they could think of to keep things moving. They did that and they did it well, but it still felt "less than" in comparison to the insanity of the opener. If one had swapped the two on the card, I think I would've likely appreciated everyone's effort more, but obviously, with the way the Undisputed Era's story went, that wouldn't have worked as well. There were individual moments in this match that I really liked, but as a whole, it didn't leave me nearly as excited as any of the previous AOP multi-team matches either. I'm hoping the AOP get called up soon as it could only hurt them to stick around longer and not regain the belts.

Shifting this back on course... I'd love to see Reigns get a nice long run with the belt. As someone else mentioned, he has some real contenders that he would work well against - Balor would be my first challenger, then maybe Owens/Zayn if they come to RAW (though I'm not an Owens fan right now), all leading to either the eventual Shield 3-way at SummerSlam or just Dean Ambrose (who will have turned heel on Reigns by then) at SummerSlam. You know the minute Ambrose "turns heel," the crowd is going to get behind him even more too. Eventually, Braun comes-a-calling in the fall. (Of course, there's also rumors around Lashley and Batista I won't even get into) As much as I love Joe and Miz, I actually think they'd be better used against other opponents rather than challenging Reigns in 2018. Joe would be stupendous on SmackDown - vs. Bryan, vs. Nakamura (I liked their NXT matches alright), vs. Styles obviously. Miz, meanwhile, is probably the only guy that could make me care about Rollins or Balor right now. Basically, you can insert any babyface against The Miz and you've got a decent #2 or #3 program on the RAW side (see what he did vs. Ziggler in 2016). So, yeah, you can call him the ace or just the "top babyface" or whatever, but Reigns has plenty of angles/storylines that could work ahead of him and there's no reason he should be taking a backseat to anyone, including Strowman (as entertaining as he is), following Mania.

And, just to be clear, I'm a Cena fan, so its not like I'm trying to disparage the guy's whole career. A few pages back I even implied he might be the most versatile promo ever too. I just found this particular point to be worth discussing because I'd never heard him actually speak about it.

Listening to Cena on Chris Hardwick's ID10T Podcast and right around minute 28, he talks about how he is criticized for calling spots. He says he doesn't care that the fans "snarkily" watching at home or the fans in the first 6 rows can see him telling his opponent what to do or what he's going to do. He says he is trying to please the fans in Section 313. I respect his honesty and that he calls it in the ring, but other wrestlers have called it in the ring without telegraphing as much as he has been doing, especially over the past 6 months. I mean, talk into your bicep, get the guy in a corner or a headlock and say something in his ear, do what you can if you can. At times, like the Rumble, Cena is literally dictating the match as its happening. So far, 30 minutes in, this is a fascinating listen, though. Recommended for sure.

Completely agree about Balor/Rollins. The best part of that match was The Miz on commentary and even he struggled to add any color to these bland, vanilla performers. His best lines were mostly about his newborn. I'm hoping The Miz retains the title on Sunday. I also think Balor/Rollins benefitted from a "Stockholm Syndrome" audience response where you have a captive live crowd that wants to see a "great match" and wants to get a "This is Awesome" chant going and then gets two guys with big reps that know how to pace a 20-minute match for the crowd in attendance. It might have been awesome in-person, but on TV, I found it tedious.

Yeah, sorry, shodate, as much as I dislike Sinclair, I think you've got this backwards. A few weeks ago, I (and seemingly tens of thousands of other people) sent a letter threatening a boycott of Snickers until they pressured the WWE to rename their women's battle royal. The idea was that if you boycotted the sponsor, the wrestling company would change their stance. Here, it seems like the opposite. If we boycott Ring of Honor, we're boycotting the wrestling company in the hopes that the sponsor will change. I just don't think the leverage is there. If half the RoH audience stops watching over Sinclair's political stances (which I abhor), sadly, RoH is the thing that'll go away, not Sinclair's agenda.

Had some questions that I wanted to post here rather than on Reddit - I just got through watching the 02'-03' WWE PPVs and am now watching the 04' Royal Rumble and I wast just curious if someone who was following at the time, active online, and maybe kept up with the WON could explain some things in regards to the timeline of events. - In January 04', was it well known that Goldberg would not be re-signing? Is this why they take the title off of him in December 03' and, at least based on what is presented at the Rumble, don't really tie him in at all with Triple H (who he'd been feuding with) and give him the "Its Obvious He's Not Winning" position at #30? - Going into the show, Benoit's gimmick is that he can't "win the big one" and is feuding with Paul Heyman. Seems like they were telegraphing his victory the whole show and for weeks prior. At the time, was it a given that he was winning or were there people that thought it could go to someone else? Who else was in the running? Cena? - Immediately after the Rumble, like, the night of, was the expectation that Benoit would challenge Lesnar or was the 3-way expected? - Speaking of Lesnar, when did his impending departure start getting publicized? Before No Way Out in February or after? - Finally, earlier in the show, Eddie Guerrero defeats Chavo clean and the crowd cheers and actually chants "Eddie!" at one point, but then, in the post-match, it is very clear that Eddie turns heel. He bloodies Chavo and beats up his brother and there's none of that "I Lie, I Cheat, I Steal" mischief to it - we may not be supposed to have sympathy for Chavo, but we're definitely not supposed to view Eddie's actions are virtuous either. When Eddie leaves, he doesn't get booed, but there are no more chants for him and the crowd is just kind of quiet. So...was this basically just dropped/never spoken of again? By No Way Out, I feel like Eddie was fully the impish, mischievous babyface. Is that accurate?

I know I'm kinda beating the same drum that's been beaten many times before but, man, John Cena. In his segment, we saw him go from over-the-top John to sentimental John to pitch man John back to fired up "southern preacher" John to serious "semi-heel" John. The crowd booed him at the start and chanted his name at the end. I don't think anyone else could've carried this build entirely on their own but this promo cemented that not only did Cena carry it, he sold it to a "WrestleMania" level (as corny as that might sound). I'm not sure where I stand on whether or not the match should happen. The 10 year old in me wants to see it this Sunday, but the 35 year old thinks maybe prolonging it a year, while risky, would make the build that much more epic and, honestly, I'm not sure the match we'd get in 2018 would be all that much different than one we'd see in 2019.

I forgot what year it was - but I want to say it was post 2005 (could be wrong and it was as early as 03') but Hulk Hogan was in Cleveland for an episode of RAW and it felt like the standing ovation he got went for 5 straight minutes. I'm not sure if they cut to a commercial on TV or whatever, but it was really something. Other Cleveland memories (mostly RAW) that felt like a big moment where the crowd pop or angry reaction was huge: 1. Tyson joining DX later 2. Austin winning back the World Title from Kane the night after KOTR 98'

Wow - super psyched as well. This forum will definitely come in handy too as I know there are quite a few matches in the archive that I never got to see in my rewatch of the WCW PPVs and Clashes (for a random example, I really dug the Zybysko/Regal series and I think maybe there's one from a Saturday Night that I would probably be more likely to watch on the Network than trying to find it elsewhere).

I second the motion for Hogan to be brought back - but in the same position/role that a Flair, Bret, Shawn, etc. are in. You can call it being an ambassador, you can call it being a "recurring guest star," but if IIRC, his last few appearances with the company were really shaky with noticeable gaffes in his live segments so the idea of him being on SD every week sounds like a terrible idea. A special guest on house shows? Sure. Charity work? Fine. Just no need to see him more than 2-3 times a year. What was more interesting to me in this OP link was the mention that Hogan was set to wrestle Cena at WrestleMania 25. I think I'd heard this rumor before but always took it as Hogan BS - I mean, even 9 years ago, Hogan was basically retired or wrestling very safe matches against his buddies (Big Show and Flair). Then again, he did get in the ring in 2010-2012, so its not completely impossible. Plus, even then, I thought the real booking plan was Hogan/Jericho at WM25 as Jericho was feuding with Mickey Rourke and the legends at the time. The idea there would've been that Hogan would've been there to shut Jericho up after all the trash talking and whatnot he'd pulled against the 80s guys (Snuka, Steamboat, etc.)

Wow, I'm shocked this match gets so much love. I just don't see it. To me, there's just way more wrong about this match than right. Every move Sid delivers, especially at the start, is basically just Benoit walking right into it. Check out that press slam early on - Benoit looks like he's hoisting himself up (it isn't even prefaced with something as simple as a boot by Sid or a chop or anything, its just Benoit practically saying "Pick me up" and positioning himself for the move). Benoit cutting Sid down is great strategy and I like how Benoit is even willing to essentially "break the rules" by using the steps to his advantage - but such a dramatic, heelish move as his first strike? Its too heelish for me, especially as Benoit doesn't really do anything that dastardly for the rest of the much. Back in the ring they go and Benoit applies a bunch of submissions and hits his trademark german suplexes and, sadly, he (and WCW) miss a huge opportunity as Benoit continuing to cut corners or if he had gotten into it with Arn Anderson a little bit (instead, Arn's invisible during the actual match) would've given the fans what they were clamoring for. The internet may have wanted to see Benoit get his big win here, but the Cincinnati crowd is clearly in Sid's corner. Sid's chokeslam looks great and Benoit doesn't half-ass at it any point - but that doesn't make up for the finish, which comes out of the nowhere in the worst way. Benoit applies the Crossface (which, as others have pointed out, doesn't really sync up with all the legwork he was doing) and Sid immediately taps, which makes him look like a total wuss, especially as Tony and Bobby had been hyping that, as his match with Goldberg proved a few months earlier, Sid "will never quit." Whoops. I don't see how this can be considered a "must see" match (which is what 4-stars means to me). I'm not even sure how this could be considered anything other than average at best.

I know this is a separate topic somewhat, but what is everyone's thoughts of CM Punk attending/not attending? Personally, I'm kind of looking at this as Punk's chance to "do right" by his fans and the pro-wrestling community in general. His defenders will tirelessly state "He owes you nothing," but I think its time for him to come out and just tip his hat and, simply by just being there and receiving an ovation (and requisite "One More Match!" chant), make a statement that he should make in 2018: "I appreciate the fans, I appreciate the "boys," and this industry, warts and all, let me be me, warts and all. Thanks." If Punk can't be bothered to attend a show in his hometown (if he still lives there?) that is designed to prove the strength of independent wrestling, than I'm not sure what could ever goad him out of his self-imposed pro-wrestling exile.

According to the report (which I didn't read/hear, but read a summary of, so, reader beware), Del Rio was at Titan Towers to film some talking head clips for an upcoming Mysterio project. He then, supposedly, met with Vince and he was always a "Vince Guy" so if McMahon wants to bring him back, it can and will certainly be read as another example of Vince exerting some power as Triple H and Stephanie consolidate theirs (its been reported that it was H and Steph who were handling the Rousey negotiations, for example, and, obviously, NXT is Triple H's baby). I'm definitely on the side that believes Alberto Del Rio is one of the biggest busts of recent times. Over-pushed, under-talented. When he first came in, I have friends who tried to convince me of his greatness based on his reputation, but his "match-ography" in WWE lacks the certifiable great matches or angles. Say what you will about "fanboys" overrating CM Punk or the reliance on stipulations that made Edge palatable or all the criticisms that could be leveled against Undertaker and Orton at their dullest, at least they had moments where they transcended their shortcomings and were really captivating characters. At what point was Del Rio as over as his pushed deserved? I'm genuinely curious if an argument can be made. At least Rollins had The Shield and that kickass lumberjack match against Ambrose.

I've seen a few theories posited... 1. He challenges Nakamura, which I think would be kinda lame storyline-wise because why should Cena get to challenge Nak for his Mania spot (or even to make it a 3-way)? As he said, he lost at the Rumble and he lost at EC. He didn't even get screwed either. If this match occurs, I expect Nakamura will win - which would help heat him up, but still leave Cena without an opponent. 2. Undertaker answers his challenge tonight or Cena does something semi-heelish to goad Taker further. I'd go with Taker just answering his challenge outright, saying "nobody tells me when its my time to rest in peace." (Note - This would make Cena's promo on Raw last night kind of nonsensical, but whatever, it gets us to the endgame faster) 3. This is somehow leading to an Orton/Cena match, which seems like a real wildcard. If I put my fantasy booking hat on, I'd go with a modified option 2. I'd have Cena try to goad Taker again, re-emphasizing that the match is "not going to happen" because "everyone backstage says the Deadman is...dead." Then, have Taker accept the challenge at FastLane. Meanwhile, add Nakamura/Jinder to the card and let Nakamura get the W the fans wanted him to get all summer.

Sometimes I feel like I'm watching a totally different show than some of you - or my hearing is just way off when it comes to reading crowd reactions. Anyway, full review up on my blog but some thoughts.. - I don't think the main event was as great as the best multi-mans we saw last year (SummerSlam, for example), but I also don't think they shit the bed. The crowd was dead for the first part, but I thought they had them buzzing once Cena came in. I understand the criticism of the overly-choreographed sequences, but when they're generally well done (as I found them to be), they're the best things these matches can deliver now that, in terms of big risky violent high spots, the EC is in the same position as the Hell in a Cell as no longer delivering on blood and carnage. - Cena disappeared at Survivor Series but I've found him to be subtly great recently, including at the Rumble and here. I once wrote a lengthy column, I think it was maybe 2006, pleading for Triple H to show some vulnerability as that sort of character development would've made him so much more tolerable (to me, at least). Now Cena is doing something similar - the one-time Fraternity King/Life of the Party who is now wondering if maybe he's hung around too long and is no longer "top bro." Its great. - Thought that the Rousey segment started shaky, but ended really strong (like most people). My hope, though, is that as we get to closer to Mania, the crowds don't try to reverse the roles and cheer Triple H (as they were doing at the start of the segment). I'm not one to usually tell fans how they should "play along" in the audience, but I don't get why fans would be angry about Rousey coming in. She's not the one booking the SD brand's women into oblivion. She hasn't ended Asuka's streak (yet). She's not even "taking a spot" anymore than the Helmsleys and McMahons have done for the past 10 years, basically just fighting each other or another part-time/HoFer every year in some sort of novelty match (see Vince/Bret, HHH/Lesnar, HHH/Sting, Shane/Taker, etc.). People would be happier with Maria Menounos? - Thought commentary was woeful the whole night. It seems like Cole and Graves are as curious as the rest of us as to why Jonathan Coachman has been brought back - they clearly don't want him there (and I can't blame them). - The Bar vs. Titus Worldwide is the type of match that makes you say, "The talent level in the WWE is so high, its almost impossible for any match to be considered anything worse than average in 2018." It wasn't a great match or anything, but compared to the kind of shit we got in 95'? Or during the Attitude Era? It was fine. Then you get Wyatt/Hardy and it reminds you that it is possible to see a WWE match that is worse than average in 2018. The commentary during this match was especially hilarious (as they scrambled to hide what was clear crowd disinterest).

To me, the Ziggler thing can be explained as the WWE having enough money to basically do whatever they want in terms of their roster. Here's another example - on a recent podcast I listened to (or maybe the story was in his book?), Jim Ross told a story about Roddy Piper asking about the white Bronco they used for WrestleMania 12 and, according to JR, Vince let him have the thing. Just handed him the keys to a brand new truck (I don't know anything about cars really, but what would it be worth? 35-45k?). Or here's another one - I believe the WWE bought the Big Show his own charter bus, which probably cost them 750k to a $1 million. He still probably has a big contract too, so my understand is that the cost of the bus wasn't really factored into his contract (meaning its not like he makes $25k less every year until he pays back the cost of the bus). The cost of Big Show's bus in 2012 or whatever was worth it because it got rid of a headache and, in all likelihood, helped motivate a talent they wanted to keep around - even if only for his "halcyon days" (in 2012, which was the earliest mention of the bus I could find, Show started off the year putting over Daniel Bryan and Cody Rhodes in successive order). With Ziggler, I don't really see a fear of him going elsewhere and becoming a star or anything like that, I see them looking at the guy and saying, "How much will it cost for us to keep this established, 'solid hand' on our roster? 250k a year? Pay it and let's move on." Ziggler, for all his huffing and puffing on Twitter, seems equally happy to be the highest paid job guy in the business.

I don't think it will lead to anything - I think its just Mickie James being smart enough to know that there are only positives to tweeting about Rousey - and not necessarily laying out the carpet for her. (A) It subtly hypes Elimination Chamber, (b ) its fully in line with Mickie James' tweenerish "grizzled veteran unimpressed with the new generation" gimmick, and ©, even while I think it won't lead to anything, maybe just maybe the company will rethink their plans just a smidge. I mean, the tweet definitely made me think that it wouldn't be a bad idea if Rousey, after whatever McMahon Family nonsense happens at Mania, were to have her first program with James, who may not be the most exciting character you have on your roster, but is reliable, established, and won't suffer longterm from putting Rousey over first (because I don't think "longterm" is very long for James in 2018). Come to think of it, wasn't that essentially what Mickie James was hired for? To help the top prospects polish their work on the main roster? To be a "player coach"? To protect the talents the WWE is investing in? I can't think of someone the WWE should be protecting, polishing, and investing in more than Rousey. And, if you're Mickie James, being Rousey's first real 1-on-1 opponent may mean playing the metaphorical "tomato can," but if the interest is as high as the WWE is hoping for, you're probably going to get a hefty sum of cash in what would likely be a 2nd from-the-top match on a Network special.

There was a time I actually thought Lords of Pain had a decent forum (before I was saved by this one), and while I still check it out every now and again, it has completely eroded to a handful of posters trolling each other. I thought they had some decent column writers for awhile too (early-to-mid-00s) on the main page and specific blog/columns forum too, but now you'll basically just find fanfic and TLDR arguments about why Reigns/Cena going heel would save the WWE. Their most famous columnist on the main page, Mr. Tito, was a daily read for my friends and I in 99', but 20 years later, he's almost become Alex Jones-ish with his over-the-top, outlandish, self-congratulatory opinions (that are often broad enough to never be totally wrong, but also almost always alarmist and clickbaity).

I'd be shocked if they book Rousey like a heel before Mania - especially if the rumored match (HHH/Steph vs. ____ & Rousey) is going to happen. I mean, who could they team with Rousey that's going to get booed over HHH/Steph? The Miz maybe? Jason Jordan? I think it'd be far easier to play it as HHH and Steph antagonizing Rousey by talking about how its "their house" and Kurt Angle backing up Rousey because he's RAW's GM and when he came into the business, people like Steph and HHH tried to "keep him down" too because he was an outsider. Even if its 50/50 in terms of crowd responses, at the actual show, the story will be Rousey is triumphant and the crowd loved every minute of it (just like the story of the Cena & Nikki vs. Miz & Maryse match was that Cena and Nikki got engaged as the crowd applauded despite the fact that the loudest pops of that whole match were for the Miz kicking Cena in the chest repeatedly). The night after Mania, though, is when the audience reactions can really help guide a storyline when handled correctly (see the Ziggler/ADR cash-in for a decent example). Rousey can come out and, by this point, without HHH and Steph to draw the heat, the audience will likely by against her or, at best, neutral. Then, Asuka comes out to a huge applause. Or Charlotte. When you have Rousey actually juxtaposed with a popular, established female performer, that's when the audience will really turn on her. I just don't see that happening if she's paired up with Steph, even if they attempt to make Steph out as some sort of godmother of the women's division (in which case I think the whole angle will just get shit on).