dawho5

Good catch-up effort on some of the major feuds in the different AWA affiliated promotions. Really liking this highlight show so far.

On that first fall for Rude, he did hook the tights rather gratuitously when he rolled Steamer up after the big knee. Think of it like a fighter getting rocked with a punch and a quick follow-up working to KO him. For that moment he's vulnerable because he just got knocked silly. Rude following up with the Awakening and then the top rope move (agreed that it is a stupid rule) to net himself another pin is a great bit of opportunism, as well as a gamble paying off. One thing I loved about the way it played out after Steamboat's flurry of roll-ups up to the sleeper reversal was that it was a reversed carbon copy of the opening of the match. First Steamer takes 8 minutes to destroy Rude's ribs only for Rude to turn the tides unexpectedly. Now Steamboat does the same after it looks like Rude has him beat, using the very thing he injured in the first place. Such a great bit of storytelling there.

A couple of job guys I made up. Just guys to take a fall at house shows when I run through my four JTTS dudes. Kind of like promotions would pick up local jobbers at times. Never make TV or anything, just there to lay down after getting beat up for three minutes.

October 18th, 1983, Aitken Centre, Fredericton, NB (4,258, sellout) Dave Kochen defeated Alex Gerrard with an abdominal stretch Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland defeated Tim Gerrard in a non-title match with a piledriver Earth & Sky defeated the Marcus Brothers with an airplane spin Samoan drop/falling headbutt combo on Bob Marcus Rene Goulet defeated Dan Johnson with a scorpion claw hold Tony Parisi & Tony Ricco defeated Goldie Rogers & Steve Regal with a Ricco flying crossbody on Regal Dennis Condrey defeated Louis Laurence with a full nelson facebuster in another test for the spirited Laurence Randy Rose, Mad Dog Lefebvre & Gilles Poisson defeated Gino Brito & The Invaders with a Lefebvre second rope superplex on Invader 1 The Can Am Express defeated Quebec TV Tag Team Champions The Tongan Terrors in a non-title match with a Brunzell schoolboy on Tonga John, the two teams brawled to the back post-match

It's not a great match in the grand scheme of things. If it's *** I'd be surprised. It's just that the Kawada/Akiyama dynamic that drives the major tag team battles between Kawada/Taue and Misawa/Akiyama derive from that match specifically. I wish there was a version that skipped the Albright early match awkwardness and just hit the highlights, but you will need to sit through that to get to the meat of the match. Albright isn't bad for the finish, but as a whole he is a detriment to most All Japan matches he's in.

Agreed on Misawa being Yoda. Another great show, although you guys didn't mention Kobashi turning himself into a human missile during 6/9/95 to knock Kawada off the apron. I have this feeling Taue ranks very high with me, easily top 20. Not only for the sheer amount of great performances, but because I think the guys is criminally underrated because of awkwardness and the company he keeps. As you go into 96 I would suggest at least side watching the 6-man tag involving Kawada and Akiyama on 4/20/96. It will give insight into the rest of their interactions throughout the year. And the 6-man involving Kawada and Misawa on 7/8/95 would be a good backtracking project to see angry Misawa. Which is the best Misawa.

I've recently gone through 6 discs of Memphis (LOVE IT!) and then popped in a mix comp to keep things fresh. Two MPro matches, a lucha match and an AJPW match later I had a thought that I felt deserved a post. I could very easily view all of these non-Memphis matches as very highspot heavy (especially if you remove the AJPW match) and overly reliant on popping the crowd big. I could also look at them as completely different styles of wrestling in different places with different wrestling philosophies, largely because they are all mid-90s matches, guiding the wrestlers involved. Interstingly enough, mid-90s Japanese style is very similar to modern WWE style if you remove the submissions, selling and seriousness (despite some of the goofy masks in MPro) or the action. And add in neck and head bumps by the truckload. Something that strikes me is the idea that psychology within a wrestling match is all very dependent upon the promotion and year. If a fan had not watched one bit of wrestling between 1985 and jumped into 1995 MPro, would they think there was any kind of internal logic to the match at all? Or would they look at it as a collection of really athletic spots done to pop a crowd? Is this dissimilar to how some of us look at certain wrestling styles that we don't care for? I think there is a tendency to look at wrestling in a more narrow sense at a certain point in wrestling fandom. It's very easy to look at wrestling through the lens of your favorite style and balk at things that don't fit within said style. As you watch more though, the realization comes that there are reasons that somebody who wrestles in a style you dislike is not necessarily doing things the "wrong" way. They are working within a different system than you are used to, one that their fans (hopefully) react to the right way. Very often the fans of these styles have been conditioned to react to these things over time, but that is another discussion. So I wonder if I watched, say, 1995 through 1998 Michinoku Pro in a more complete manner would I see a definite pattern emerge in how the wrestlers used their spots in a match? Would certain spots come with a predetermined meaning that I won't catch based on just one match? Would the order of moves that Taka or Sasuke used to get nearfalls be based on something that was successful in the past? Is a certain dive only used in really big matches because of it's meaning? All of these are questions I was asking myself while watching Taka in a singles match with Sasuke. As well as noting that Sasuke had a brilliant moment where he went to kick a facedown Taka and ended up skimming his back, so he spun with the momentum and went into a front facelock on the mat in one flyuid motion. And the sweet Sasuke roundhouse kick to sliding drop toe hold to single leg combo. Ultimately those things were filler, but well executed filler. Yet another question arises. We all know there is filler in wrestling matches. Each style (and every wrestler within said style) has it's own version of filler. As you watch more wrestling it becomes easier to pick out. But at the same time it becomes a question of how it is executed and how it adds to the story of the match. Which again comes down to the internal logic of the wrestling style you are watching. And those rules tend to change between singles and tag matches. So you have several versions of the internal logic within a certain promotion in any given era of it's existence. My question then is this. How am I (or how is anyone else) qualified, based on the limited amount of footage we will most likely watch from a given promotion, to say that a match is a spotfest or your turn-my-turn? Or a brilliant match within the psychology of said promotion/feud/whatever? I know this is a place where we have some of the most obsessive wrestling fans in the world and I would say that there are people here who have watched more than enough of some promotions to be authorities on the subject and have that understanding of what is happening to say with certainty what was going on. But the majority of us, let's face it, do not have that. Several more questions. The people who are authorities on many promotions do not agree on their interpretations. Does this mean that regardless of how much we've watched, personal preference and sentiment will always blind us to some of the reality? If that is the case, does it matter if we haven't seen enough of a promotion to truly understand it when we look at it? Is it enough to look at the major matches and take what you can from them? Should a match both fit within the internal logic of the promotion and time it comes from and be a story in and of itself that will be understood decades later with no other viewing required?

October 17th, 1983, Halifax Metro Centre, Halifax, Nova Scotia (11,500) The Can Am Express defeated the Marcus Brothers with a dropkick/cobra clutch combo on Joe Marcus Earth & Sky defeated the Gerrard Brothers with an airplane spin Samoan drop/falling headbutt combo on Tim Gerrard Tonga John defeated Tony Ricco with a running big boot Armand Rougeau, Rene Goulet & Louis Laurence defeated Quebec Heavyweight Champions Richard Charland, Dan Johnson & Steve Regal with a Laurence half crab on Regal Randy Rose defeated Tony Parisi with a sidewalk slam Eddie Creatchman cut a promo on Brito & Parisi Mad Dog Lefebvre, Gilles Poisson & Goldie Rogers defeated the Invaders & Dave Kochen with a Rogers schoolboy while grabbing the tights on Kochen Brito promo, if Brito wins match tonight Midnights put up tag titles next month, Creatchman agrees Gino Brito defeated Dennis Condrey with a prawn hold after a side suplex

To be fair, Matt's original post was a bit over the top. I understand where it was coming from. I also think that that sort of thing is counterproductive to good discussion. I do agree with his point, especially the edited version.

Almost seems like the parentheses should have had "Titans rejoice" in it.

Brody for December 28th please.

I'm looking for Hansen & Brody on the 4th, 11th, 18th and 25th.

What a great transition from the old regime to the new. I'm going to need a few weeks to trust Lanny's change of heart though. Also wondering who is going to finally slam Haystacks and what will happen to them as a result. And whether the ghost of Randy Savage will haunt the promotion until he returns.

October 16th, 1983, Moncton Coliseum, Moncton, NB (6,800) Dan Johnson defeated Bob Marcus with a power slam Dave Kochen & Tony Ricco defeated Goldie Rogers & Steve Regal with a Kochen abdominal stretch on Regal Armand Rougeau & Rene Goulet defeated Earth & Sky with a Rougeau schoolboy on Kamiguchi, the Midnight Express attacked and Brito & Parisi saved Eddie Creatchman cut a promo on Brito & Parisi Quebec TV Tag Team Champions The Tongan Terrors & Mad Dog Lefebvre defeated the Can Am Express & Invader 3 with a King Tonga thumb spike on Brunzell Lou Albano cut promo on Lafon and Brunzell as the Terrors continued attacking Quebec Heavyweight Champion Richard Charland defeated Louis Laurence by count out after decking him with the belt while Dan Johnson ran out to distract the referee to retain his title Gino Brito, Tony Parisi & Invader 1 defeated Canadian International Tag Team Champions The Midnight Express & Gilles Poisson with an Invader 1 heart punch on Poisson, Lefebvre came out to ringside and argued with Poisson post-match

I am kind of an in-between everyone so far. I do tend to watch a match with little to no note taking the first time through. I want to feel what is happening before I analyze it. That being said, I do have a checklist that will tick off as I watch. How effective were the wrestlers in putting heat on the heel? What were the reasons it was/wasn't effective? Did the match lose me and/or the crowd? Why? Things like that. Then I'll try to remember things that would have stuck out, like structure, execution, selling, timing. But to me, a wrestling match is much more about the emotions it evokes both in myself and the crowd. If it gets the crowd going but I don't care for it, obviously I'm watching the wrong kind of wrestling. The whole idea behind it is that the workers want people to react to what they are doing. So my main focus is those reactions. The more wrestling I watch, the more I can see the cause and effect nature of what the wrestlers are doing and how the fans react. So my best advice is to not force yourself into seeing this, that and the other if it's not coming easy. Just watch wrestling, enjoy it first and foremost, and try to keep the analytical part of yourself running in the background. That way you can connect what happened in the match with what you liked/disliked.

It seems like the point jdw is making has more to do with how personal taste is going to affect a lot of top 10s/20s. There are guys who we all know are great pro wrestlers but just don't work as well for us as other people in that category. And the ones we prefer will be the guys we put way up at the top. It's not because they are by some device of measurement "better" than the others. It's because out of that group of wrestlers they are the ones we prefer. I know Kobashi is a great pro wrestler. He's been in tons of matches that he had a very large part of making great. He does not, however, make me as a wrestling fan happy with a lot of his habits. Kawada on the other hand is right up my alley. He's one of the reasons I still watch wrestling. So would I rank him above Kobashi? 100 times out of 100, yes. But do I admit that there are valid arguments for Kobashi and accept the fact that there will be plenty of lists that put Kobashi above Kawada? Absolutely. And I take no issue at all with the idea, because if that's what you like your vote should reflect that.

i wonder how long the Dynasty keeps the titles in Southeast after they lost them in Southwest? One thing about this project is seeing how people develop feuds. The promos in between the squashes seems like it would have been a pretty common way of doing things on TV at the time.

Very good work on building the foundations of the show. I can't wait to see the different feuds you highlight.

Funk vs. Brisco still has legs, which is good because it's a great feud. Bock and Sarge had a nice twist. Now you've got Heenan in addition to Bock that needs comeuppance from Sarge. That's one way to write Mulligan out. Nasty. Of course Larry Z cheated to win, he didn't have the option of stalling or leaving. Didn't see the Brazil/Brown split coming though. Main event would have been a lot of fun, lots of bombs I would think.

Holy crazy main event Batman! Loved the Fabs/Moondogs feel of the match. I don't consider those matches or the Sheepherders matches to be all time classic tag bouts, but damn are they ridiculously fun brawls. Also, the Dynasty is showing signs of weakness, can they recover? Ash taking his frustrations out on a lesser Rich has to come back to bite him in the ass eventually. The Zambuie Express are a surprise Duggan opponent, but certainly interesting. Interesting also how Saito/Seito weren't overly happy with either team. Moose as a hacksaw partner? Poor, poor Tiny. Guess Lothario and Mr. Mexico are one down in their little war. Hopefully Mascaras and Apollo can take advantage.

A Hogan-Lawler brawl sounds pretty sweet. But who gets the hugely over comeback at the end??? Seems like each tag after the first furthered one of your big feuds. Seems like a show that would hold people's attention pretty easily with a lot of fast-paced brawling.

I have this feeling Tonga Kid is going to get backstabbed by Mulligan. The Russians and the Sheik seem like they have a lot going for them right now, but I think they will get theirs.

Hogan getting a minor victory is a good thing. Never know when Olympia is going to turn on him though. DeNucci getting a win is nice, but I feel like that's going to be fairly rare.

May need to do more than the 13 or 14 you have left also.

Yeah, once you have put it up there once it is okay just to reference it. Long shows are in no way a problem. If that's the way you want to write, I say go for it. It seems like it works for you as your promos and especially Lance ring mostly true. I also like your transitions between segments a lot. The show flows together really well in most cases. It's something I've found myself looking at in my shows and not seeing, so I tend to notice when I see it work.