dawho5

That lariat off the apron was definitely the highlight, but this was a wonderful slugfest. How is it Britain is better at both technical wrestling AND Brawling?

I really liked this one for a couple of reasons. 1. They didn't do that "spend 7-10 minutes on the mat" opening that NJ juniors always seem to do to prove they can mat wrestle. It's great that they can, but it very rarely has anything at all to do with the finish. Or the story leading to the finish. 2. What they did instead was get right to Samurai stealing some of the very key Ohtani spots, tree of woe and face washing to be particular. Clearly there has been some buildup that has some spice to it as Samurai is a guy who gets that way in response, not as the instigator. 3. After Samurai rips off the face washes, Ohtani does not try to respond in kind. He tries to hit bigger stuff to advance the purpose of winning the match. He's not just trying to get his shit in. He is trying to play to the story being told in the match. 4. The finishing sequence is not overblown like the previous matches Samurai had with Takaiwa and Kanemoto. It builds the moves up in a much more logical order with a lot more struggle to hit big moves in sequence. Overall, really good match that has to be one of the better NJ juniors matches as far as showing some restraint and staying within the established story of the match.

What I have is clipped to the finishing stretch. Samurai hits a dive he has to hit or he piles the top of his head into the guard rail. Takaiwa (probably not often favorably compared to Kanemoto) is much better about keeping this finishing stretch sane longer compared to Kanemoto's blatant "I'm getting my big shit in" attitude. Samurai counters some of the really well-known Takaiwa offense and hits most of his stuff. I'd argue against the one Samurai bomb as it wasn't used as a nearfall, but a build to a less satisfying nearfall. Also, it kind of detracts from the 2 minutes later Samurai bomb that is a nearfall. Samurai takes two ridiculous bumps here. The first is a powerbomb from the second turnbuckle where Samurai's back hits, then his head hits in a nasty way off the bounce. The second is a second turnbuckle DVD that looks nasty as Hell. If I am getting this right, you have to pretty much commit attempted murder to finish a NJPW juniors match properly. The second one leads directly to the finish, but is not the finish, which may suggest some sort of excess.

Koji bullying Samurai and targeting the leg early was indeed awesome. I'm kind of with a lot of folks in that the ending killed a great, great thing. And it's not Samurai's fault really. Koji brings in that reverse rana from the top that really has no place. Where do you go from there that is bigger? Then he does the moonsault to tiger suplex, which should be the end. That's not bigger than what he's already done to Samurai AND he has had about 2/3 of the offense in the match. Something about almost killing your opponent for the first non-submission big nearfall of the match just rings superbly untrue for me. Was stoked Samurai had that moment with the fans, but I wish they had not done a few of the things along the way. BTW, there was another wrestling heavy website with this awesome guy who made compilations. This was on one with 3 other El Samurai matches. Part of how the comp was described was several NJPW juniors having a contest to see who could kill El Samurai.

On rewatch, the scrambling by security once Butch goes into the crowd is the best part. You know that lead security guard in the dark jacket was just about having a heart attack when that happened. I thought the stalling did go on a bit long this time. I'm sure the live crowd was pumped for it and if you can get away with that for the live audience, why not save a little wear and tear on your body?

Goulet was announced as from Quebec. That is not saying he never spent any time in France though.

Dennis Goulet vs. Terry Rudge was a fun match. I totally get why you prefaced it the way you did. It was a basic shineless-heat-comeback kind of deal. Nothing overwrought that you wouldn't have seen on TV in Crockett with a few different holds used and maybe a better part of the match as a shine. Still good stuff though as Rudge really does some good heel work through most of it. That one arm hold he was using early is probably not used anymore because ofthe proliferation of high knees. A good high knee would pretty much neutralize that thing in about half a second. I think where Rudge really shines is playing King of the Mountain. That really got the crowd going too, set them up well for the comeback.

I'd agree this stopped at being "fun". It's cool to see Bobby work and he does as much as he can with it. Twelve minutes is simply not enough time for Dusty to get a shine and a comeback AND give Bobby enough time to convince the audience that Dusty is actually in trouble.

On rewatch I stand by earlier thoughts and have a few more to add. Having Hugo (I think? The hair looks right) need medical attention post-match adds some way for Brody to recoup any manhood he may have lost losing to Colon here. Then having Carlitos chase Brody and the heel manager (not sure who) out to get the fans riled up and leaving on a high note is just a great call. As far as the match, it is easily the most vulnerable I've ever seen Brody.

From a wrestling standpoint, SUWA always had to take the majority of the offense in this match. And he did, which is not a bad thing. For being one of the resident bruisers, he is surprisingly athletic and has a lot of interesting offense between the low blows and cheating. The false finish may have gotten me the first time I watched the match, but I know very well that DK has a mask much later on, so......not so much. DK did show some good fire, it's just hard to believe some of his strikes would faze SUWA much with the huge size difference. Post-match was really entertaining. One thing that I will say about the Toryumon (and future DG) ref. He is 100% useless unless somebody is making a cover or submission. The times you see rudos actually forced to stop cheating you can count on one hand after 5 matches. And they are doing it blatantly in front of him. All you need to do is point in the general direction of the tecnicos at ringside and he will be gone for about 5 minutes. Either it's a comedy bit or he was actually supposed to be on the side of the rudos.

I was never a big Joshi guy before. Well, when I was into the flash of it upon first discovering it I was. Then I started to see some of the tropes that get way overused. Like the screaming and the using finishers over and over and over again. I kind of get that second part for Aja's backfist. It's more of a "progressive" finisher thing. Really good action in this match with the Crush Girls really bringing the spunk to counter the big girls. I liked how they used a lot of double teams to keep things going their direction as a point of the psychology. I'm starting to see joshi in a better light again BTW.

So I LOVE Koji Kanemoto. Once I've said that, he wouldn't come close to sniffing a top 200 pro wrestlers list. As an explanation: This is a clipped match. We come in with Koji slamming Takaiwa down and doing his second turnbuckle tumbleweed and missing. Selling is not his strong point. He pops back up and does it again. Misses again. Didn't hurt a second time. Works to two of them (because I guess since he missed two before, he needs to hit two). Then misses a top turnbuckle version. That one he gets up fast, but Takaiwa has had enough. He gets in some offense, then Koji goes to the moonsault, because that has won him so many matches and high flying has proven to be so helpful in the last few minutes. He is 2 for 5 at this point. The point of all of that is that Koji is going to get his shit in. However he has to. Fuck you if you don't like it. A part of me wants to love him for that, but another part of me likes common sense in my wrestling. Then the part that really makes me love him. Takaiwa and Koji are boys . When they fight, they are going to bring it 100%, but once it is done it's all done and they are friends again. To prove this, Koji helps Takaiwa up after the finish, they slap each other full force once each and then hug. How can you possibly not love that?

That Finlay vs. Zyrno match was great. I jumped back into my Best of British Wrestling stuff and hit that 1981 Jon Cortez vs. Steve Grey match again. Every bit as good as every time I've ever watched it. After trying all the modern stuff for about a month that was a really nice return to wrestling I actually like. I'm probably going to start mining this thread for good European/British stuff. And that there French Catch thread. That combined with what I have and the Puerto Rican stuff (how is it I love Puerto Rico and WoS style wrestling?) should be good. With some other old stuff I have that is worldwide, it will make for a good cross-section of good wrestling from across the world.

That wide-eyed face is one of my biggest issues with the current style. Hard to believe people kick out of anything in a wrestling match, I know. Gunther seems alright. So does Dragunov, also Cody and Drew McIntyre all seem pretty good as workers. They are just trapped in a style that makes me want to vomit watching it. A couple of other issues I had were: 1. Clash at the Castle had two champion-as-underdog matches back to back. Bayley at least accepted her role and wrestled it as such. Even if she completely stopped attacking Piper after it took a lot of effort to subdue the bigger woman, only because the interference was getting kicked out of ringside. And then was selling for the next 10 minutes because of it. Also, the help wasn't really kicked out. Utter nonsense. And Priest seemed to be defiant of the underdog role despite every attempt by the announcers to get it over. 2. When they do Michinoku driver/falcon arrow bumps, the wrestler on offense throws out the victim way early. And I know why, they want to make it less of a neck/head bump. Only problem is it usually results in a completely uncontrolled, awkward angle back bump that probably does just as much damage to the spine as the alternative. Just don't do the damn move at that point.

After watching a few matches over the last few weeks I would say this. It's lucha dives, Japanese moves, no-selling and strike exchanges, ECW garbage wrestling and attitude era stylings, plus every WWE trope you can think of turned to 11. Not to mention they very rarely get any of the outside influences right in terms of what they are or why they exist. McIntyre's dive on Priest in Scotland was a great use of a dive as part of a shine, I'll give whoever put that in some props. I'm not sold on a lot of the workers either. Even a main event guy like Damien Priest seems more interested in popping the crowd than actually working towards something big for any amount of time. I was not sold on him from the opening moments of that match and felt like he was less by the end. Nothing to do with missing on the dive, just not at all impressed on the psychology side of things. As an example, Priest felt the need to do a LOUD slap after...what 75% of his strikes? McIntyre had the good sense to at least save it for his named moves. I will say both are tremendous athletes. Priest is going to have a fucked left knee later in life after that one-legged Razor's Edge. Leaning with the knee in front of the foot with another guy on your back and that is your only support? It may not show up right away, but that did some damage. I did think the kneeling strike exchange (if it was ad-lib) was a good idea and a nice way of selling the injury. And you know, out of the three matches I did watch on that show, my earlier feeling that strikes in the modern WWE are really weak remains. It's just shy of snug and somehow jumps out at me. Priest vs. McIntyre was better than the 2 ladies matches. I won't watch that abomination of an I Quit match because I sullied it with the highlights. Magnum/Tully spoiled me. That 3-way tag was okay, The taller half of the tag champs coming in is beastly strong for sure. Bayley's match was a pretty good not-quite-underdog story. I will also say that they need to tone down the intricacy of the spots leading to a top rope move. Way too much repositioning going on. Very obvious repositioning.

Stevie Richards thought it might be that he was looking over at the entrance and waiting for the music instead of paying attention the the ref's count. Seems logical.

Dragunov vs. Breakker was pretty good. I don't think Dragunov should be doing the coast-to-coast dropkick. As much as they say he is Russian (and maybe he is), he's 100% Japanese with an emphasis on Kobashi in how he wrestles. I really want that "run into the ropes neck-first off a whip" spot to go away. Looks super dangerous and somebody is going to get hurt pretty bad.

This is absolute gold! Thank you so much for doing this. :)

I watched Sami Zayn vs. Gunther and I wasn't as impressed as I should have been. The match, as far as layout and execution of the actual wrestling, was great. It told an awesome story. The problem is that WWE doesn't accept the idea that the story is enough. Every match they have now has somebody doing that "I can't believe they kicked out" stare multiple times. Usually both workers. It works better if you do it ONCE. Anything past that and you are killing the gimmick. Also, that "stand in the corner and motion for the other guy to get up" thing irritates me to no end. Add to all of that the homogenization of characters to cocky dudes and women who think they are the only ones who should win (I would separate Gunther and Sami from this, they seem to have at least some actual qualities of a personality) makes storytelling really hard. If the only difference between Wrestler A and Wrestler B is that Wrestler B tends to cheat and is slightly more obnoxious, then who is the real good guy? I would also point out the constant need in that Gunther/Sami match to have Gunther stop what he was doing and talk to Sami's wife. There is enough drama in how the match plays out, leave it there. That goes with the one WWE trope that drives me nuts more than anything else, the need to stop ant play to the crowd or taunt your opponent every 2 moves. You have some momentum, use and make it look like this is a contest you have some kind of stake in. All of that aside, those 2 guys put on a Hell of a match. I just wish it wasn't in the WWE.

I watched that Walter vs. Dragunov match. Dragunov's selling was way over the top, but it kind of made sense. As AJPW cosplay goes, sure. As far as killing your own body for the enjoyment of...no crowd...WTF? These guys are great at what they do, it's just that there are better ways.

Iyo Skye vs. Valkyria was pretty good when they stuck to the chain wrestling and high flying. A few times where they didn't quite get lined up properly and that thing they do now where they both just stop doing anything before a whip to the corner (explain this?) were small issues. A bigger one is the strikes are almost snug. They stop just short of that and it somehow makes it worse than if it missed by a mile. I caught the same from the Smackdown with the QOTR final. And it's not just the women. Orton and Tama Tonga were a little better. I like how they are protecting the workers more now with the bumps they take. The trios match on that same show was kind of like a mash-up of WWE with M-Pro with how unsbstantial the exchanges were as the match went past 3 minutes or so. Just run in, sprint through some stuff, then clear it for the next guy. Also loved some of the newer uses of old classics in the Skye/Valkyria match. Using roll-up counters as either a modified throw or to go from a victory roll into a double stomp was pretty awesome. It's more advanced than the Trish/Jazz match I watched, but not better. Trish and Jazz were laying their strikes in enough so you didn't doubt them. They weren't doing super complex stuff, but it all looked on the level and you didn't catch somebody moving into position to take a move right. I feel like maybe style has triumphed over substance a bit now. I also don't love the stopping to pose all the damn time, but that's Sports Entertainment and how it has affected wrestling.

Wondering if it is worth plunking down the 6 bucks (I think?) to get the WWE network. Specifically, I wanted to research Stevie Richards' thesis that the Trish/Mickie James era of women had more 3D characters in the ring than current women's wrestling. Would I have access to those matches?

Wasn't there some kind of copyright thing where other networks would not have been legally able to air Nitro? I recall something along those lines. To be fair to Cornette, he never looked at wrestling through the corporate lens. Even when he was a part of it. He recalled Bischoff being hailed as the "best wrestling booker" when it was specifically "best wrestling executive". Given that Bischoff himself did not consider himself a booker I agree with that idea. There are two headliners there, Eric Bischoff and Vince. Everybody else kind of failed once it became a competitive business. Cornette did bring up another great point, that some mistakes were glossed over. And a lot of them were, on Bischoff's part, as well as a few others. That being said, I have some mistakes of my own I don't voluntarily bring up. Also, if I were to try to recall the exact circumstances of a thing that blew up in my face 20 years ago I'm 99.999999% certain that I would gloss over some things I did that contributed to the blowing up in my face part due to not remembering. End of the day, he's a salesman who actually has learned a lot about the wrestling business through the years. And Corny, for all his genius in the field of wrestling, made his share of mistakes over the years. Not the same mistakes, but probably a similar percentage. We all get in over our heads and make mistakes trying to cope. To counter all of that, I truly love Cornette in all facets of what he does and will continue to follow him until he stops podcasting. The man is entertaining, flawed and a genius. All in all I think Bischoff has been vindicated over the years as others have tried to accomplish what he did. He may not be the best ever booker or the most knowledgable wrestling guy out there, but he doesn't claim to be either. He's a guy who likes the idea of producing a highly rated TV show. And for 83 weeks, he did that very thing. You can fault him for being a bit of a Hogan mark, sure. Of course he loves Hulk Hogan. When you put Hogan on TV, people watch. Whether or not you like some of the things he (supposedly) did over the years or how he wrestled, he made the eyeballs show up to the arenas and the TV screen. Isn't that kind of the whole reason wrestling actually existed post-1985? I kind of hate that I feel that way. 1998 me would punch me in the mouth for all of it. But there's more than my own personal taste out there.

Buddy Landell's face-first plant into the middle turnbuckle was indeed the highlight here. Good headlock work by Apllo, but nothing new or ground-breaking.

I am the same way. Loved watching it, but don't know how much I can go back.I feel like Misawa, Kawada and Kobashi especially were really into that DK style of working. Between those guys, the NJ juniors and the WCW midcard that to me is what defined the style of wrestling that came after it. As much as the action in the ring makes me want to say "for the better", I have to think that a whole generation of wrestlers is going to be paying within 10 years for not protecting their bodies. Learn from the horror stories of the guys you are emulating.