GOTNW

For a lot people (myself included) rating and ranking is just part of the process-a more tangible idea on how good I think something is in the grand scheme of all wrestling that ever happened. I'm absolutely more interested in explaining why something works for me or not, and in general find something like "great match *rating x* " pretty useless (not that there's anything wrong with it). I actually have a thread in mind about ratings.

I get the impression combat sports are more interested in the actual action than just winning/losing. Team sports are popular because they're a competition of brands that people get attached to for stupid reasons like liking a colour or a name. And with that popularity comes a system aimed at producing as much content as possible and the average fan watches three minute highlights and talks shit about a game he didn't watch based on the result and statistics.

I'm not their parent. Not my job to look out for wrestlers' well being, even if I wish them all the best. But if every match looked like Battlarts or older Japanese shoot style promotions I wouldn't be long for the show. Its one thing to mix that in as part of the overall package being presented. I know what channel UFC is on and can turn there whenever I wish. Don't really see why you felt the need to act so condescending here, maybe it's self-loathing due to how notoriously the All Japan crew ended up. Yeah, it's probably stupid to do skull cracking shoot headbutts if you're wrestling 300 times a year, but then so is taking stupid apron and tope rope bumps that happen all the time now. And both are dangerous enough even without the insane schedule. Also pretty ridiculous you're atttacking me for this when my favourite WWE wrestlers are Braun Strowman, Rusev and The Miz, the safety and health of WWE wrestlers would probably be better off if I was running it instead of people fascinated with PWG Meltzer reddit meme wrestling. And if more people knew how to actually WRESTLE like the shoot guys did maybe they could work the mat a little instead of doing something stupid every two minutes to get a reaction.

They already had generations of wrestlers die prematurely and a wrestler commit murder/suicide, Battlarts alumnis fare pretty well in comparison. And the Raw GM almost killed himself taking stupid bumps several times. Plenty of moves look good without dropping someone on their head. Not sure German Suplex is one of them. Lesnar's Vertical and Belly To Belly look great but he doesn't use those as much unfortunately.

Opening was pretty boring, I have zero use for Lesnar spamming German Suplexes that end in weird flat back bumps, looks completely unnatural. Match was fun once they moved away from that as we got to see some actual violence with the table bumps. I can accept finishers being used the way they were here much easier when you actually establish every match is going to be like that and it doesn't feel like it's just a cheap way of getting hit for a bigger match and that's what they've done with Lesnar, you get the feel you'd have to hit him with a shotgun to actually beat him. What makes this match really special is the absolutely brutal finish-absolutely unreal violence creating an epic visual. ***1/4

Vince really likes that spot where Reigns runs down the ramp and Spears someone near the ring doesn't he? And now the creative team has to think of ways to get it in regardless of how little sense it makes. The brawl itself was fun and Reigns' screaming fangirl was more amusing than any of the "smart" chants but the way they went about it just made no sense whatsoever, especially when Reigns wasn't even trying to get pas referees who weren't even trying to really stop him from attacking Rusev.

There's no way this was as long as it seemed. I liked Ziggler's early roll-ups, I remember there being a Cesaro match where they spent more than twenty seconds doing that type of stuff and it was really cool. Finish was cool as well because Ziggler's moves are stupid and Ambrose just refuse to go with one of them, hit his move and went home. But man oh man was this not pretty. They were trying out new stuff, Ambrose randomly used moves he's never done before, guess he realised he has to world title matches now, and he was trying out new stuff with his character, while Ziggler tried to experiment with how he uses the moves he already has. None of it worked. Absolutely nothing they tried in this match worked. I'm so glad it's over. Ziggler's headbutt outisde of the ring was cool but mere seconds after he was elbowing the canvas and missing Ambrose by a foot. *1/2

The beginning was actually quite interesting as you had them working a tight lock up, Cena throwing the best punches he's ever thrown (I want to say his punching style here looked Buddy Rose's but I'm not sure I've seen enough of Rose to stand by that) and Cena using irish whips as punishment spots. Then they do an apron bump and this turns into a formulaic Cena-as-PWG "superworker" match, with AJ inserted into the formula and the formula slightly adjusted to fit his moves in but not enough to make it actually novel. And you don't want to see these two do a stupid spotfest. AJ Styles isn't 25 anymore, he isn't nearly as smooth and athletically impressive as he used to be and Cena never was nor is he ever going to be the guy for that type of match. The inefficiency of their finishers has reached such an absurd level I just don't buy anything they do as a potential match ender. Cena's weird Big Ending variation was ugly, but otherwise the move they spammed looked solid and some of the sequences were kinda cool, would have made for a 6.5 GIF maybe. Still this isn't really much different from a New Japan main event and I'm not sure whether it'd be more hypocritical to praise this and shit on New Japan or do the opposite. It's also amusing to see how many Japan references they make these days. "IWGP, BUSHIDO, Goto, using a translation of 雪崩式 instead of whatever WWE buzzword they have for top rope moves etc.) **3/4

I really liked Miz's performance in this, he's really come a long way. He did a very good job of controlling the match and establishing nice and long control segments. Unfortunately Crews didn't have much to offer, his punches looked bad, his enzuigiri could've looked better and he is still very vanilla. I liked how they teased the bigger moves and Miz fed Crews his power showcase spots nicely (and Crews threw him good too). Not a fan of wrestlers doing things they usually don't when executing moves to set up a counter like Miz picking Crews up just so he can counter a Skull Crushing Finale atempt with a flash pin. As usual Miz used his surroundings and his manager to efficiently get heat and transition back into offence. Finish was also refreshing and absolutely the right call, no need to have Miz use the kitchen sink to beat a guy for whom it's just not clicking right now. **3/4

The Strong BJ division is way better now that they have guys like Hideki Suzuki and Shuji Ishikawa to complement Chopmasters, as well as a group of very promising young guys. Definitely agree. Now that Kazuki Hashimoto is returning soon, they have the best Strong BJ roster they've had. They've had an uptick this year, no doubt. but 2012,2013,2014, and a large chunk of 2015 were down periods for the Strong Division as this new crop of guys were greener than goose shit and are just now reaching their own. Guys retired, left, moved, etc., and then it took 3 or 4 years to build the company back up after loosing guys like Sasaki and Sasaki. Plus the biggest problem with Strong BJ right now is that after 7 or 8 years of blugening one another there is diminished returns on every stiff shot, every snug strike gets less of a reaction from fewer people in the crowd than it would have a year before. Their crowds are slightly better this year, but still not good and they aren't reacting to anything. Are you sure you're not actually talking about NOAH.

I like pro wrestling that preserves the struggle of a fight, even if it is one often resembling action/boxing/martials arts movie scenes more than an actual real competition or a fight. I don't like pro wrestling where the workers struggle to simulate the fight itself, and if you're not bothered by the sloppiness that is still very much present in many of these matches, well, good for you. But I'm having trouble taking Bayley seriously when she messes up very basic looking spots. The match was fine-Bayley got some solid shine early on and then we transitioned into a cool control segment where Asuka nailed Bayley with a brutal knee and kept cutting Bayley off every time Bayley attempted a comeback. Asuka really nailed some sharp kicks in here, it was a joy to watch. Unfortunately Bayley's comeback was pretty lame, slamming someone's head into the the turnbuckle as a comeback works if you're a tecnico and Fuerza Guerrera is bumping for you but as a means of vanquishing the biggest badass the NXT women's division has had so far it's not very convincing, especially when the slams themselves don't look especially violent. Bayley's babyface comeback offence of running elbows/kneedrops/legdrops would've been much more efficient if Asuka's control segment laster longer and was used as the actual comeback. Finish was also kinda eye-rolling, didn't really buy into Bayley becoming this huge badass, her acting wasn't there and her daring Asuka to hit her in the face and immediately covering up was just so stupid, it's the kind of stuff that happens when you have Triple H and friends laying out puro machismo tribute spots. Do I even need to explain how stupid no-selling a head kick is after treating it like a KO shot a mere second after? You fire up and barely get to your feet at best after something like that. That would've made for a much better and intruiging finish than what they did. ***

Check the first post in the thread before posting.

I don't know, it looks pretty funny to me, especially when they're trying so hard to make him look tough by having security go after him too soon in his interview with Nakamura and having them follow him while he's walking in the hallway like he's Goldberg. He didn't need those cheap props back when he was still a great wrestler.

La Sombra is just so much better at wrestling than Bobby Roode it's really interesting this is the situation they ended up in. You look at the most important aspects of getting over in WWE-name, entrance, outfit. Roode is just so much above Sombra in every one of those and it is really no surprise he's gotten a much better reaction. In terms of acting Sombra is lightyears ahead of him-his calm and cocky mannerisms feel a million times more natural and genuine than Roode spamming a taunt that looks like it was designed specifically to be like Triple H's without looking exactly like it. That's much like Roode himself-someone pointed out yesterday he looks like Triple H's nephew. In terms of being popular in WWE he's pretty much a good finisher away from being a legit superstar. Can't they just give him a Dominator or something? Give him a Folding Powerbomb. Just something that looks good. The match was fun, I liked Sombra's shine periods a lot, Roode played a good base for him and kept his offence simple and good looking, his counter to Sombra's wacky DDT looked brutal in particular. Sombra on the other hand feels lost trying to find something that will work for him and he ends up doing Rey Mysterio's, Ibushi's and Tanahashi's spots, in many cases depriving them of what makes them work in their usual context. It's a shame but he isn't adapting right. And his finisher and finisher taunt are stupid. **3/4

This was a better showcase match than Aries-Jose as the victor looked good-particularly her Carthwheel Forearm and the finisher but she had other offence that looked impressive like a leg scissors pin and a nice crossbody. The match also benefited Billie Kay who has yet to find herself as we saw her lay her strikes in and do a really great Gory Special where she really wrenched Ember Moon. There was some rough stuff that looked more like them losing control than struggling over moves but that'd be my only complaint. **1/2-**3/4

Structurally there was nothing special about this match, some revenge spots early on but it quickly became an exchange of control segments. Aries' offence looks good tehnically but there isn't much flair to it, and him clapping before a chinlock was really ridiculous. Some sloppiness with an ugly crucifix driver and a falcon arrow but it didn't mean much either way. The Neckbreaker on the ropes was a cool spot but much like everything in this match didn't really mean anything, and with Jose even escaping from Aries' finisher hold this match didn't really accomplish anything. Doing a no-sell spot in the opening match with a comedy figure was also ridiculous.**1/2

Pretty standard NXT quasi-squash but an easy watch, Hideo's Baseball Slide looked brutal and the Corkscrew Neckbreaker while one guy is entering the ring is a really cool spot no one really does regularly that I'm always glad to see. **3/4

I have no idea what world someone people live in. Of course Joe was a transitional champion. He isn't the hot commodity anymore. It's what he should've been.

Nominating: Hideki Suzuki & Daichi Hashimoto vs Yasafumi Nakanoue & Yoshihisa Uto (BJW 6/29/2016) Kota Ibushi vs Cedric Alexander (WWE CWC 7/14/2016) Hideki Suzuki & Takuya Nomura vs. Yasufumi Nakanoue & Yoshihisa Uto (BJW 7/24/2016)

Where's JDW when you need him.

Except they obviously do Foreigners always get heel heat in CMLL. Rusev's been very successful even after his russian nationalist gimmick was dropped. Japan hasn't booed wrestlers for being foreign since Rikidozan anyway. The idea that masculinity doesn't work in this day and age is the biggest bullshit idea tumblr feminism has produced. The lack of masculinity is actually a pretty big issue in society in general, particularly a lack of a good father figure, which in turn leads to kids acting fucked up and then you get "woke" figures blaiming it on their hyper-masculinity or whatever. It's a joke, especially in wrestling which is built around simulated fighitng.

Obviously Riki Choshu is the greatest booker of all time Built up new generations for New Japan three times (the Tenzan/Nagata generation is a little sketchy but without Choshu there to set up their rise it would have been even worse once he was out). Drew more money in the 90s than New Japan did when wrestling was actually popular in New Japan. Even outdrew WWF in either 95 or 96 which is INSANE.

You cherry picked three matches feauturing Okada and Tanahashi so I'm not gonna disagree with that much. There are plenty of matches worked differently with more grit and violence. My point remains-even if the working style doesn't suit you (which is fine as a criticism of its own) it's a different issue from the setting in which it takes place, which isn't post-modern at all. Well no one forced you to spend hours watching indy wrestling and polluted WWE shows in the first place. Just because you're disillusioned with it doesn't mean we should pretend all modern wrestling has shit self conscious crowds.

This discussion is much like reading reading an extemist political site. Some valid points, but in the end it all comes back to this: Parv will shit on modern wrestling instead of seeking out modern wrestling where crowds don't act like snoby anglosaxon reddit users while the majority of modern wrestling he decides to even give a chance is still the one where you're most likely to have those types of crowds. If you watch those shows it's pretty clear those crowds don't take wrestling more seriously than people today. In fact a New Japan crowd even TODAY probably acts more seriously than All Japan crowds those days did because they've been conditioned to do so after decades of New Japan, well, not being a total joke like it is today. And that is with all the american BS Gedo does currently. Yet Parv's reaction to watching a little bit of modern New Japan was "what is this post-modern BS". He is a gimmick after all.

This is why I'm sure watching US indies wouldn't be nearly as entertaining as the croatian indy with untrained wrestlers. A promoter books himself as a heel yet wants to be liked too much to actually act as one. He tries to get heel heat by acting cocky and undermining his wife but only gets the predominantly male (and conservative, especially by US standards) crowd to cheer him. Having her align with another male wrestler to end his reign of terror only gives more material for the patriarchal crowd to use against her. A group of wrestlers claims he shuts down any storyline ideas that don't revolve around him and leaves claiming they will form a new organization led by a croatian indy wrestler that has *actual* training and wrestles in Italian indies (and has claimed he'll form a promotion here for years without actually doing anything). Shows are mostly main evented by fat guys while the drunk crowd yells random stuff at them getting that elementary school fight feel just right. A true throwback