El McKell

Well Misawa did get a +1 for carrying the promotion so that is an advantage wrestlers who homesteaded can have over those who didn't. There is a certain amount of give and take there although 3 points for different markets when the maximum you can get for psychology is also 3 might be a bit much, but you can scale your ratings to whatever you think is important. Mind me asking what the justification for AJPW -> SWS counting as different markets but not counting AJPW -> NOAH and SWS -> WAR.

I could be wrong but I suspect it's because the UFC weight limit for Light Heavyweights is 205

Does that system maybe undervalue simply appearing on the ballot? Like if 5 people place someone at 100 that's not as good as 1 person placing them 94th. This probably isn't that important to anyone as it won't affect the upper tier of results but just thought I'd throw it out there.

Other than the finish being kinda fucked up, I remember really enjoying it.

I wouldn't ever consider voting for Del Rio, lazy, boring on a week to week basis, his best stuff is good but not stand out at all, and he was part of one of worst tv matches of the decade that nobody seems to talk about w/The Miz & Tommy Dreamer vs 3MB. That being said I think Case is way off to suggest he's the worst wrestler nominated.

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Just looked up this Laprade method. I like it other than the -1 point for not appearing on a ballot. I just think it'll look dumb if we have someone on 3 or 4 ballots finishing with -3 points or something. Just make not appearing worth nothing and add 1 to every score in the 100, then the system is the same and absolute zero can be 0 instead of negative the number of ballots handed in. Awarding a certain number of points for certain positions does feel a little bit arbitrary, but I can't think of a better way to do it. I did briefly think about if you could adapt a single transferable vote system to this kinda thing but I couldn't think of a good way that wouldn't take a huge amount of time and work to count the ballots. (or allow someone to come first without getting any first place votes, not sure if that matters)

This might not be feasible, but at some point I'd like to be able to see all the ballots so we can play around with different ways of counting the votes and see how the results are affected by it.

I'm pretty sure he was talking about the decline in Bockwinkel's mental state due to dementia

I think that this was just Jim Ross and it stopped close to 15 years ago. But yeah, it made absolutely no sense whatsoever.

could you list the HHH matches? vs Benoit vs Shawn Michaels (Wrestlemania 20) ​ vs Mick Foley (Royal Rumble 2000) ​ vs Daniel Brian (Wrestlemania 30) vs Mick Foley (No Way Out 2000) vs Batista (Vengeance 2005) vs Chris Jericho (Fully Loaded 2000) Evolution vs The Shield (Extreme Rules 2014) The ones I gave the same rating (****) to are: w/Steve Austin vs Chris Jericho & Chris Benoit (Raw 5/21/2001) vs Jeff Hardy (No Mercy 2008) vs Shawn Michaels (Summerslam 2002) ​Evolution vs The Shield (Payback 2014) ​

I definitely think there's a lot of Flair in Triple H in the way he takes offense/bleeds/stumbles around from like 2000 to 2004. ​I know this thread is moved on from comparing Andre The Giant to Hunter for great matches but I looked into my database of star ratings and there are 7 Triple H matches that I've given a higher rating for than the best Andre match I've seen (vs Hansen in NJPW) and a further 4 I gave the same rating. Not the best way to compare guys and admittedly I'm not a big Andre fan but I just thought I'd put that out there.

Ranking Triple H is really hard for me because it becomes about how much do I weight the bad stuff. Rating Hunter on his best work clearly puts him on my list and I'm not sure if that's unfair or not. If I look at a guy like Buddy Rogers where I've seen less than 10 matches and I dunno if there are even more to see and he looks awesome and I feel like he should be on my list. Well if all I'd seen of Triple H was ten of his best performances he might look even better than Rogers, so I need to properly think about reconciling stuff like that. Also there's stuff like the Booker T WrestleMania match, where it's terrible because you think about the angle and how the finish was such a terrible conclusion to that story but I think the match in isolation is pretty good. Hunter is probably going to be on my list but he's one of these guys who's difficult to place because my feelings about him as a wrestler are all wrapped up in feelings about him personally, how he was booked and boring 30 minute promos to open Raw at various times from 2002 to 2016.

I didn't think my second paragraph was really a jackass view or even in opposition to my first paragraph. I was just trying to offer an explanation for why this thread for Crusher Blackwell is very positive for someone who might not make a lot of people's ballots. Why do people like me not post our negative thoughts in the threads for wrestler like Blackwell, y'know.

I am not high on this guy at all unlike many people here but I never thought of it as him getting an easy ride. I just figure well these people don't care as much about cool moves or ability to work long singles matches as I do and also think they think that cage match with Sgt Slaughter against Masked Superstar, Patera and Al-Kaissy was some kind of great match. There probably is some amount of him not getting as much criticism as someone who has been considered great for a long time going on. The only people who actually care about Crusher Blackwell are people who kinda discovered him, for lack of a better word, and then thought he was awesome and unheralded. People who've seen bits and pieces of him and think he's fine don't have enough of a reason to say here's the list of things wrong with Jerry Blackwell because he's not touted as great by enough people or for a long enough time.

I've only ever been drunk while watching wrestling once and while that was fun I don't see myself doing that ever unless I'm at a show live.

Open trolling. That's enough of this now. When someone calls a genuine opinion trolling for no reason on basically any message board I'd expect them to be actually trolled. That said Ricky Steamboat's armdrags are at least top 5 all time. Also holy shit that Kensuke gif is amazing

I only did this once about 5 years ago because I wanted to put a cd with a song about geocaching into one. I got a little Danish flag and band aids out of it. http://starters.bandcamp.com/track/geocache-girl there's probably nobody who cares but there's the song.

I personally wouldn't come close to voting for any of these guys. But if you think Blk Jeez is someone who you could vote for you should just nominate him. It's hard to say if CZW is being underrepresented here, because I feel like among almost any group of hardcore wrestling fans (I don't mean fans of hardcore wrestling) CZW is not considered somewhere where many/any all time greats worked. If no CZW guy gets votes, is CZW underrepresented?

The Abyss cage match is probably the only great match. Had a damn fun match with Bad Luck Fale in this year's G1 which has to count for something considering the dregs that you often get with Fale matches.

How are the two even comparable? One is real life and the other is a storyline. I get that Dave thought expanding the Observer to include UFC would increase his readership, but I think there should be separate awards for pro wrestling and MMA. Full list here (and in the Observer newsletter itself, of course): http://www.cagesideseats.com/2016/1/21/10805104/2015-wrestling-observer-newsletter-awards-analysis The two are easily comparable, they're both a series of interactions leading to a fight between the competitors, where we grade them based on their ability to entertain us and generate interest in seeing the fight. If you think for a second that the stuff Conor McGregor was coming out with was 'real life' and not just him trying to say what would draw the most money while simultaneously being as entertaining as possible then you probably didn't watch much of the build to that fight. There are separate awards for MMA and pro wrestling with the only exceptions being best feud and box office draw, and maybe best/worst gimmick if someone wanted to vote a fighter for those.

Who had the best 10+year run and when was it (pick your own parameters)? Kenta Kobashi: 1993 - 2005 Who had the best 10 year run and when was it? Kenta Kobashi 1995 - 2004 Who had the best 5 year run and when was it? Mitsuharu Misawa: Summer 1990 - Summer 1995 Who had the best 3 year run and when was it? Jumbo Tsuruta 1989 - 1991 Who had the best 2 year run and when was it? Hiroshi Tanahashi 2012 + 2013 Who had the best single year and when was it? Hiroshi Tanahashi 2013

I'm on parv's side here I think Johnny's point is a little off base. if he's supposed to be the top guy he shouldn't be getting cheered one week on raw, then booed the next, then indifference then next. He's nowhere near as over as a the top guy should be.

Kyle O'Reilly, Cesaro, Randy Orton, El Generico, Kevin Steen, Brock Lesnar and Ricochet are likely to make my list and wouldn't be without their work this decade. Same goes for Young Bucks on my tag team list. John Cena, Daniel Bryan, CM Punk, AJ Styles, Chris Hero, Christopher Daniels and Low Ki are all helped by work this decade and all of them except Daniels are basically locks for my list.

Which Japanese wrestler will you rank highest? Kenta Kobashi, he's part of the 2 man race for my number 1 spot Which Japanese wrestlers do you expect to make your list? There's going to be close to 50 of them, so no chance of a list here Who was the best of the 70s, 80s, 90s, 2000s, 2010s to come out of Japan? 70s: Jumbo 80s: Jumbo 90s: Kobashi 00s: Kobashi 10s: Hiroshi Tanahashi Who was your favorite Ace? either Kobashi in NOAH or Hiroshi Tanahashi Who was your favorite top challenger? Kobashi in late 90s AJPW Who was your favorite under the radar guy? Can't pick Kobashi again here. How under the radar do you have to be? Does Marufuji count? If not I'm gonna say Natsuki*Taiyo, but I'm starting to think there's no room for her in my top 100 Who was the best at their peak? Akira Hokuto Who has disappointed you the most? Yoshiaki Fujiwara, I was initially kinda impressed with him in multi mans but he was really disappointing when I started looking at him individually. Tiger Mask also disappointed me a lot, but everyone on this site realised he's nothing special way before I did. Also Shinya Hashimoto