El McKell

Tetsuya Naito: http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/25307-tetsuya-naito-vs-tomohiro-ishii-njpw-021114/ http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?/topic/32725-aj-styles-vs-tetsuya-naito-wrestle-kingdom-9/ http://www.voicesofwrestling.com/2016/01/04/njpw-wrestle-kingdom-10-review/

This would be gold, book it. Could actually be an improvement for AJ Styles' hair.

It's very possible that not all of these guys will make my list but right now they're all more likely to be on it than not. Cena, Samoa Joe, Orton, Triple H, Undertaker, Brock, Generico, AJ Styles, KENTA, Jericho, Rollins, Cesaro, Austin Aries, Shinsuke Nakamura. Does Sting count?

I'd consider him the number 1 worker since 2010. I'll probably be the high vote on Tanahashi, he's definitely in my top 10, could finish as high as 4th but probably not.

My issue is, what if they turn out like Kurt Angle and go from really good to the dirt worst? If we did this poll in 98, Shawn Michaels would be on my list. Doing it in 2016 he is not, due to his awful run post comeback. This is why I'm not voting for someone in their prime. For me, the post-prime does nothing to diminish what he achieved before that which why HBK is making my list. I'm convinced that negatives over-index in our thinking. I think the post comeback proves he was not a smart worker and relied on his athleticism. I prefer workers who play to their strengths and don't look awful, because they are dumb. The Rockers were really good and I liked his original heel DX run. Don't like him at all as a babyface outside of Rockers run. Plus, personally, I dislike the person a lot. ​But we still don't know if CM Punk and Daniel Bryan would've sucked when they're 40. Why is retiring prematurely different than still being in your prime?

I'm gonna be voting for guys in their prime I don't see what difference it makes, we just have to judge everyone based on what we've seen of them. Why does it matter that Danielson said he's retired, his career up to this point is exactly the same either way. Also, holy shit when this started CM Punk was an active wrestler, we've been doing this a long time.

It's not bonus points, it's points for different roles and styles which isn't something Misawa is gonna excel in, or Abby when I think about it but Parv's gotta give him the points for being the kinda character that had to move from territory to territory to continue to be a draw.

If you want excuses to deduct Undertaker points you could remove the +1 for ability to work tags, because since when was Undertaker ever good in tags beside that one Shield match and at a stretch the SNME match w/Flair against Sid and Hogan. Unless that +1 is going to basically everyone who worked tag matches, then ignore me.

Yes. I think that The Undertaker is better than Vader.

​I will watch whatever Necro in IGF stuff you think I should if you can provide me a way of watching Bob Sapp vs Necro Butcher

Not gonna rank either of them but I think Super Dragon is significantly better. Although Necro does create a great sense of danger about everything he does it doesn't often translate into an overall entertaining performance to me. I think Necro Butcher has quite a lot of really bad matches and only a couple of gems like the Super Dragon and Low Ki matches (The Samoa Joe match is fine but I don't love it like a lot of people)

Rey Mysterio

I'm against the minus points because it'll look dumb when someone appears on a couple of bollots and has a score of -6 or whatever. It's not actually a punishment anymore than 0 is when you increase all the other scores by one, the results would be identical. You could give -50 for not appearing -49 for being 100th and so on that wouldn't be any sort of a punishment for not being top 50

​But can't you say the exact same thing with the roles reversed for 03-05 NOAH

I have been sold on this. The five minute Gangrel episode will be must listen stuff. Is Gangrel even nominated?

What? Doesn't weighting it mean that you can do better while appearing on fewer ballots? Shouldn't luchadores be hurt for failing to appeal to everyone? Can you suggest a system where 'great luchadores' aren't hurt because some people leave them off other than just disregarding ballots that dont' include Negro Casas?

Yeah it does seem weird to not drop off as gradually as possible. 5 point variance to 4 points to 3 and so on. Edit: actually no it's not

Well Misawa did get a +1 for carrying the promotion so that is an advantage wrestlers who homesteaded can have over those who didn't. There is a certain amount of give and take there although 3 points for different markets when the maximum you can get for psychology is also 3 might be a bit much, but you can scale your ratings to whatever you think is important. Mind me asking what the justification for AJPW -> SWS counting as different markets but not counting AJPW -> NOAH and SWS -> WAR.

I could be wrong but I suspect it's because the UFC weight limit for Light Heavyweights is 205

Does that system maybe undervalue simply appearing on the ballot? Like if 5 people place someone at 100 that's not as good as 1 person placing them 94th. This probably isn't that important to anyone as it won't affect the upper tier of results but just thought I'd throw it out there.

Other than the finish being kinda fucked up, I remember really enjoying it.

I wouldn't ever consider voting for Del Rio, lazy, boring on a week to week basis, his best stuff is good but not stand out at all, and he was part of one of worst tv matches of the decade that nobody seems to talk about w/The Miz & Tommy Dreamer vs 3MB. That being said I think Case is way off to suggest he's the worst wrestler nominated.

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Just looked up this Laprade method. I like it other than the -1 point for not appearing on a ballot. I just think it'll look dumb if we have someone on 3 or 4 ballots finishing with -3 points or something. Just make not appearing worth nothing and add 1 to every score in the 100, then the system is the same and absolute zero can be 0 instead of negative the number of ballots handed in. Awarding a certain number of points for certain positions does feel a little bit arbitrary, but I can't think of a better way to do it. I did briefly think about if you could adapt a single transferable vote system to this kinda thing but I couldn't think of a good way that wouldn't take a huge amount of time and work to count the ballots. (or allow someone to come first without getting any first place votes, not sure if that matters)

This might not be feasible, but at some point I'd like to be able to see all the ballots so we can play around with different ways of counting the votes and see how the results are affected by it.