joeg

I think context and execution are the two things that stand out here. I don't think over the top violence is a bad thing in of itself, I think over the top violence for the sake of over the top violence is a bad thing. The idea of how much is too much isn't really an issue to me, its why is this happening, where is this leading, and how was it executed. I haven't seen the GCW match and I probably won't. An intergender tag match in the middle of a card with no heat or backstory shouldn't have any sort of blood or gratuitous violence let alone a stabbing. The excessive blood and violence in feuds such as Magnum vs Tully, Pogo vs Onita, Funks vs Shiek and Abby, LA Park vs Wagner Jr. etc. is warranted based on the characters involved and the story of the feud. I think the tag this weekend highlighted several problems in modern wrestling. A lot of these kids weren't really trained or trained properly so what they do is unsafe. They don't understand psychology or story telling, so things that seem wild and crazy are done for the purpose of doing something wild and crazy. As opposed to telling a story that leads to something wild and crazy. And lastly there's a large section of wrestling fandom that just wants to see wild shit. There is a large portion of the audience that don't care about the story, they just want to see cool moves, flips, or blood.

Generally, I think that any object that would cause serious injury in the real world should not be a prop or foreign object in wrestling. Knives, eating utensils, brass knux, sledgehammers, hammers, etc. Even when it doesn't make the match look rediculous and fake, it still defies logic and is horrible long term story telling when somebody get stabbed or hit with a deadly object and ends up on TV a week later looking ok. An example would be the Demon vs Wagner mask match. The over the top weapon spots made that match what it was. Then after being hit with a hammer and a cinderblock, Wagner works 4 shows in the following week, including the very next night? Who doesn't spend a week in the hospital after getting their hand broken with a hammer and having a cinderblock dropped on their head? So even when crazy weapon spots look good and don't result in serious injury, the business still gets exposed on the follow through and lack of proper long term story telling.

Exactly. Just wanted to add something to this. If a wrestler has been in NXT for a few years without any main roster plans, and is over 30, I would expect the wrestler would want to be be released. WWE had over 300 guys on the roster, probably 280 of which they have no plan for. If you are in the prime of your career and not being used or paid big money, you would want to go somewhere else. Having no strategy is why WWE is always reactive rather than proactive. When AEW was starting up and NJPW was expanding into the US, WWE tripled the size of their roster just to take workers off the market. Now 3 years later they are trying to undo that by releasing everybody and putting arbetrary restrictions on age and size. 5 years from now they will over correct again when somebody somebody they passed on for being too old, too small, or too foreign becomes huge in AEW.

Last year there was a thread similar that had a bunch of great trios listed. The AAA trios from March 95 is still my pick.

Yeah, the HHH comparison doesn't make sense to me, Cody consistently gets others over at his own expense. If anything the Bucks are more like HHH. They beat every tag team that AEW brings in and never put anybody over. Even when the Bucks lose, its usually a flukey type of loss that doesn't hurt them and doesn't help the team going over.

I don't know if this show has been weak as much as its impossible to follow the chaos and violence of the past month.

There was a Steiners vs Liger and Benoit match in 93ish or 94ish that I really enjoyed.

Listening now. It was a throwaway joke. Don't make it sound like something it wasn't.

I hadn't seen this yet, but it reinforces my previous post from earlier. He's getting heat but its the wrong kind of heat. With his age and experience level, he should know the difference, yet he doesn't. Somebody compared his raps to Double J's singing. Yeah thats a perfect comparison! Both guys who look good on paper, but in practice just don't work.

Bracket #1 1. Steve Austin vs. Vince McMahon VS 16. Steiner Brothers vs. Doom 8. Jushin Liger vs. Chris Benoit VS. 9. Raven vs. Sandman 5. Bret Hart vs. Shawn Michaels VS 12. Bob Armstrong vs. Jim Cornette 4. Vader vs. Cactus Jack VS 13. Jushin Liger vs. Naoki Sano 6. The Undertaker vs. Mankind VS 11. Konnan vs. Perro Aguayo 3. Steve Austin vs. Bret Hart & Hart Foundation VS 14. Ric Flair vs. Lex Luger 7. Steve Austin vs. The Rock VS 10. Heavenly Bodies vs. The Fantastics 2. New Japan vs. UWFi VS 15. nWo Black & White vs. nWo Wolfpac Bracket #2 1. WCW vs. nWo VS 16. Gaea vs. SSU 8. The Rock vs. Mankind VS 9. Sting vs. Vader 5. Rob Van Dam vs. Jerry Lynn VS 12. Triple H vs. Vince McMahon 4. Ric Flair vs. Randy Savage VS 13. Hulk Hogan vs. Earthquake 6. Ric Flair vs. Sting VS 11. Randy Savage vs. Jake Roberts 3. Los Gringos Locos vs. AAA VS 14. Ultimate Warrior vs. The Undertaker 7. WAR vs. New Japan VS 10. Burning (Kobashi & Akiyama) vs. Untouchables (Misawa & Ogawa) 2. Ric Flair vs. Hulk Hogan VS 15. Tommy Dreamer vs. Brian Lee  Bracket #3 1. Jumbo Tsuruta, et. al. vs. Mitsuharu Misawa, et. al. VS 16. Eddie Guerrero vs. Rey Mysterio, Jr. 8. Steiner Brothers vs. Nasty Boys VS 9. El Hijo del Santo vs. Negro Casas 5. Raven vs. Tommy Dreamer VS 12. Kenta Kobashi vs. Vader 4. Rey Misterio, Jr. vs. Psicosis VS 13. Michinoku Seikigun vs. Kaientai DX 6. USWA vs. SMW VS 11. Aja Kong vs. Bull Nakano 3. Dean Malenko vs. Eddie Guerrero VS 14. Naoya Ogawa vs. Shinya Hashimoto 7. New Japan vs. nWo VS 10. Sting vs. Cactus Jack 2. Jerry Lawler vs. Bret Hart VS 15. Diamond Dallas Page vs. Randy Savage Bracket #4 1. Mitsuharu Misawa, et. al. vs. Toshiaki Kawada, et. al. VS 16. Mitsuharu Misawa vs. Vader 8. Chris & Toni Adams vs. Steve Austin & Jeannie Clark VS 9. Jerry Lawler vs. Eddie Gilbert 5. Bret Hart vs. Owen Hart VS 12. Edge & Christian vs. Matt & Jeff Hardy 4. Eddie Gilbert vs. Cactus Jack VS 13. Jushin Liger vs. El Samurai 6. Rick Rude vs. Ricky Steamboat VS 11. Cactus Jack vs. Terry Funk 3. The Moondogs vs. Jerry Lawler & Jeff Jarrett VS 14. Razor Ramon vs. Shawn Michaels 7. Rock & Roll Express vs. Heavenly Bodies VS 10. Atsushi Onita vs. Mr. Pogo 2. Jushin Liger, et. al. vs. Shinjiro Ohtani, et al. VS 15. Rey Mysterio, Jr. vs. Dean Malenko

I dunno about Caster. He checks all the boxes- legit sports background, god given natural athletic ability, looks like a million dollars, tons of charisma and personality, etc. But 6 years into the business he's still not good. He's still not connecting with the fans. When he gets heat its the wrong kind of heat, and he still doesn't seem to know the difference. On paper he looks like a top star, yet he's not. Whether its the rapper gimmick or something else holding him back I don't know.

@MoS my point is its a bad look. Why have your 3 top heels do something on live TV that they cannot do? It makes them look like nerds, like they have no hand eye coordination or athletic skills. Don't open up your wrestling show by exposing what your top 3 guys can't do- in this case, catch throw and dribble a ball better than a 9 year old girl.

Watching the 10 man tag right now.... You remember those Mr. Perfect vignettes? They left you thinking "that guy can do anything he wants athletically to anybody". The Space Jam tie in had the exact opposite affect. I watched The Young Bucks and Omega trying to dribble a basketball and came away with the conclusion that they probably got stuffed in a locker more than once.

Exactly. Pro wrestlers are playing the part of a professional athlete. If they have a legitimate athletic background and look the part, it makes it easier to buy in and suspend disbelief.

This is true, and it makes me sad. 25 years ago I think there was a huge crossover, but as WWE's fanbase shrinks (and ESPN's fanbase for that matter), the overlap between wrestling fans and sports fans has gone away.

@Hawkeye12 You take all the fun out of making an argument when you go and fact check everything with sportref and wikipedia. I guess I assumed he was all conference his junior year because his production and stats dropped off as a senior, if I recall. Where did you read he had a 6th round ceiling and when was it written?

He didn't just play college football, he was the All-ACC first team, twice. If you watched American sports in the mid 2000s you knew who Joe Anoa'i was. Had it not been for leukemia, he probably would have been a 3rd or 4th round pick and had a decent NFL career. Instead he under performed at the NFL Draft combine and went un-drafted. He was signed by a pro team and released for not passing the physical twice in 6 months. A year later he beat the cancer and had a short career in the CFL. Point is, he wasn't just some guy who played college football, he was one of the best defensive lineman in the country.

I've always thought Cena would have been even more successful as a heel in WWE. If there's one thing I can say about WWE is that for the last 25 years or so they've done much better promoting heels than babyfaces. I also think he had more of a natural heel than a natural babyface. Jim Cornette has made the talking point that had Cena came around 10 years earlier he would have been the top heel in late 90s WWF as opposed to HHH, basically point out that Cena could do everything HHH could do but better. I think that's true.

Watched Cardona vs Gage. For what it is, it was very good, largely due to Cardona generating incredible amounts of heat. With that said its still your typical garbage match, lots of walking around and stalling before somebody gets thrown into something incredibly dangerous, followed by more walking around and stalling. I think the difference here was that while Gage was setting up furniture, Cardona was doing everything he could to draw heat and sell. Cardona's gaga and selling elevated the match past the normal car crash garbage match. It reminded me of when Moxley worked the G1. I was sitting there wondering where was this when he was in WWE? It really makes believe that the over production and over scripting of WWE is deliberately done to keep guys from getting over. Its the only explanation.

Went in person last night. Enjoyed the show. Every match fell in that ok to good range. Not a huge crowd because of COVID capacity restrictions but a noisey crowd in the arena. I don't know if how lively the crowd was came across on TV or if TV only picked up the rows of empty seats. Its been probably 6 years since I went to a ROH show in person but it was much like every other ROH show I've been to- good realistic in ring work, logical booking, and busch league production. Every promo on the stage and hype video on the screen got lost as half the crowd couldn't see or hear what was happening on the stage. 11 matches is a lot as well, especially when the under card stuff and promos promoting their next show run long and the co features and main event run short. But its ROH so you kind of expect a poorly produced live show when you go. Bandido getting the win was nice.

Benoit vs Lesnar December 03

Listening to the Tony Khan episode.... When Khan gets rambling away talking about on his fandom, he definately sounds like somebody popping uppers.

Going to Best in The World next Sunday. Excited for some live wrestling for the first time in ages and excited to see Rush vs Bandido

@JerryvonKramer a follow up question. So LA, SF, and Detroit were proper territories... how'd their guys make ends meet working only twice or three times a week? If you were working those territories did you also have a day job or were you just hand to mouth? Another question, how did ECW loose 8 million dollars in the years they were running 200 shows? The only way that makes sense is if every show they ever ran operated at a loss and ramping up the schedule in 1999 just increased the losses. But If the company had always been in the red why did they try to expand so aggressively that year and run such a hectic schedule with such a thin talent roster? No wonder they went under.

I tried. I really did. I flipped to Raw during a time out of the Suns vs Clippers game. They were recapping what had happened in previous weeks on Raw with a clip of Matt Riddle riding his scooter to the ring and chasing the Miz around the ring in a wheelchair. It was so bad. I watched through the horrendous Johnny Nitro/Miz/Richochet segement and gave up. I'll try WWE again after the NBA is over. Its mind boggling how bad the 10 to 15 minutes that I watched were, it almost seemed intentional. It feels like they are intentionally trying to make their talent look foolish and prevent them from getting over.