Johnny Guitar

This was a fantastic listen. You guys did him proud.

Marc Mero had a garanteed contract in the WWF before Nash even jumped. That's usual Nash bullshit. And really, Hulk Hogan anyon Guys like Foley still give Mero grief for getting a guaranteed contract in 1996, but don't say anything about Pillman or Mark Henry getting them also.

A simple request in memory of Dusty. Top 5 promos. Either from a star making perspective or a money drawing one. Or both. Or just plain awesome

Raw 1997. The undercard is not good. The mid card is a barren wasteland. But the main event scene is fantastic and produces a bunch of great matches and angles which lifts the whole company up to heights it hasn't seen in half a decade and lays the groundwork for a big money run.

Sad times! 😞

The major problem was that the corporate structure in WCW was a complete mess from day one. Bill Watts and Eric Bischoff are polar opposites in their views on wrestling, but both agree in hindsight that their first major move should have been to fire most of the office and production staff. Without a solid and capable staff in place everything else, booking, talent roster, TV production etc suffered through out WCW's history. Alot of really smart and capable people worked for WCW over the years and they were never able to overcome the bureaucracy that existed in the company. The AOL/Time Warner merger was going to bring a whole load more. I don't think there was anyone in the company that was capable of navigating that situation in 1999.

I'm still waiting for this.

Also with no disrespect to Bruno. When he was downplaying Hogan and Austin as draws. He wasn't taking into account the PPV business each man drew.

The best part of the Ironman match at Wrestlemania 12 for me was Bret busting out a piledriver. A) because he used it on a semi regular basis and it could have/should have led to a fall and more importantly Lawler, obviously thinking the same thing, as a guy who used the move alot. Completley marking out for his kayfabe arch enemy using it.

They definitely helped raise Pillman's profile, but they didn't follow through. Hindsight being 20/20 and all that, but they should have had Pillman step up to defend Sting after the injury at the Clash instead of Luger. Pillman has the match with Flair at Wrestlewar instead of on Saturday Night. Flair goes over strong. Pillman puts up at valiant effort and Luger doesn't get screwed with an ill advised face turn. Post Wrestlewar, Pillman goes after the Horsemen, beats Arn for the TV title( or not), then feuds with Windham ala 1991.

Yea this I can definitely get more on board with. I just think there is a wide gulf between "they could have done more with La Parka" and "La Parka could have been a top guy in WCW" Yeah, top guy or not. I think most of us can agree there was something more that could have been done with with La Parka than what WCW did do. I remember during Wrestlemania 14 on the hard cam there were 2 prominent signs that stick in my mind. One for Van Dam and "Viva la Parka". People were definatley into him.

That's a great point and sadly that could have applied to a whole bunch of guys on the roster. La Parka, Pyschosis, Disco, Kanyon, Alex Wright, Kaz Hayashi and probably about a dozen others.

When the old vs young feud was being suggested in 1998/99. The only old guys who were willing to work with the the younger guys to put them over were Piper, Flair and Bret. Piper wanted a feud with Raven. Flair wanted to work with Eddie,Jericho, Rey & Benoit and Bret wanted to work with Benoit, Jericho & Booker. As Loss pointed out this would have required some careful booking. Something that was disappearing by the day in WCW and neither Flair, Piper & Bret were the the stars or performers they once were, in part thanks to some terrible booking. But at least somebody in that company was thinking about the future. Flair and Bret certainly had enough left in the tank that they could have made some of those guys stars. But it was all derailed thanks to politics. There was a list of guys, in the the Observer in early 99 who were to be buried/de pushed. All of the a fore mentioned guys were listed along with a few others.

Here's the beginning of the Buddy Rogers thread, it starts with Gone Fishing's post. http://sportsandwrestling.mywowbb.com/forum1/1119-2.html There was a link somewhere over there to the whole original threads as little as over a month ago. But they seemed to have vanished.

Tournaments. Dave Meltzer says they don't draw, but I love them anyway. Done right I think they're a great way to elevate someone. Lance Russell. One of my favorite calls of his is during a Paul Orndorff squash match on WCW Pro? where he casually notes that Orndorff has been a star in WCW and the WWF. WCW. For all the rightful criticism they get for alot of stupid mistakes that could have and should have been easily avoided. The good outweighs the bad. They produced alot of great wrestling, in a far more varied styles than the WWF was showcasing. Gave alot of guys a break when Vince wasn't interested in them. And provided genuine competition.

I see Bulldogs as guys who did high end offense, it's what sets them apart in the 80s. I also get the impression Bret is unaware really of the Southern Crockett guys and what they could do. Steamboat and co were workrate guys. Bret's view of things is entirely skewed by a WWF or Northern centric mindset. I don't think Bret was skewed by a WWF or North centric point of view. He worked for years with a pretty diverse group of guys in Stampede, who were the exact oppoiste of New York style. By his own admission, he didn't enjoy wrestling with alot of the WWF mainstays that he worked with in his first year or so in the company, as they were people he felt that no vested interest in making him. He obviously respected Ricky Steamboat as a worker, as he was gutted when their match at Wrestlemania 2 was scrapped. The Bulldogs and Neidhart showing up just meant that he would have a group of guys he knew how to work with and they could get over in their spot on the card as none of them were threatening the main events spots

Really enjoyed this. Can't wait for the next part.

I'm sure they would have been, I just don't think Arn would have been the guy, unless the matches took place in Crockett country. Heenan hooking up with Hennig 6 months earlier would have definitely helped his run against Hogan.

Something else to consider, which Parties touched on, is which guys end up buying into or inheriting companies and becoming bosses. Bret I could see taking over Stampede, rather than being NWA champ, and bringing in the japanese and euro guys like Stampede did anyway. Plus being tight with the Funks and Von Erichs. Any of the Texas guys he'd meet on tour there. Austin, Shawn and Taker for example. Would Shawn and Austin, born and raised in San Antionio and Houston ( well just outside) and living in the area to this day. Buy into those offices. Shawn toyed with the idea of running a company with TWA. Does Jim Ross end up running Mid South? Piper is still in Portland. Does he take over from Don Owen? Does Raven end up back there due to his friendship with Piper and history in the area? Is Matt Hardy running JCP for the Crocketts? Or is Paul E ala the WWN ? With a dozen plus offices going do people who never got in the business find their way in, ala Cornette and Heyman, and make a difference? John Muse was a hairs breath away from booking WCW's cruiserweight divison and pretty much everyone on this board seems more competent to book a wrestling show than Vince Russo. Who did manage to get in the door, despite the limited opportunities available.

Regardless of which format, TV, internet. GFW choose to broadcast their product on. I'm more interested how they present it. TNA throughout their history has mainly been a mish mash of WWF,WCW & ECW circa 1998 - 2001, which really hasn't worked. ROH's style is very niche and isn't really conductive to a main stream audience. I'd love to see GFW produce a more modern take on JCP/WCW, circa 83 to 93 or Smackdown 2006. But thats probably outdated and the audience for that has long since departed.

I could see Windham being champ between 1988 - 1991. But things that stopped him being a proper main eventer in reality. Mainly his lack of desire, regardless of of his natural ability, would hamper him when it came time for the board vote. Bret may of had a chance. He pretty much played NWA champ during his main event run from 92 to 97. And whilst Stu didn't really have alot of stroke, Bret would have had the support of Harley and The Funks, which would go along way. Pillman was awesome and should have been a main eventer. But he worked best as underdog babyface or psychotic heel, neither which were suited for World champ in the territories.

That Montreal ever happened. Putting aside Matt D's point about Owen. I think we missed out on a ton of great wrestling matches and feuds from Bret. Besides the obvious blow off match with Austin. There were obvious feuds with Foley, Shamrock and an upwardly moblie Rock, and by the time they wrapped up Angle, Jericho and Benoit would have been in the company. Pillman was Owen's mystery partner at Wrestlemania 11 That Dustin Rhodes had a run in ECW in 1995 between stints in the big 2. He would have been a great foil for Douglas and a great mystery partner for Dreamer in a wild brawl against Raven & Stevie and/or Cactus. That ECW actually had some real money behind it. Obviously to pay all the people they stiffed. But to be a viable 3rd alternative for guys to go to. Flair, Savage, Bret and Vader all having runs there could have been great.

I'm sure that the casket bump fucked Shawn's back and he was totally ripped to the tits during Wrestlemania to cope with it. He probably legit needed some time off after it and could have come back back much sooner. But by that point he was so totally lost in drugs, Pillman's death was still looming over the company and the fact that Austin had taken off meant that paying Shawn to stay at home was best for business.

It was Terry Gordy as The Executioner. I think this was after Gordy had his stroke, so he probably wasn't able to do much. I'm guessing Vince brought him in as a favor to Michael Hayes. Ol' Doc was brand new to the company as a television performer only, so that can be ruled out as a reason if it were in fact Gordy. Hayes had been with the company 18 months by that point. He wasn't exactly brand new. Vince may live in a bubble, but he knew who Terry Gordy was and people, not just Hayes, could have and would have clued him up on what had happened to Gordy in the last few years.

Made more ironic by the fact that Elmore Leonard based that character specifically on The Rock and although the movie tanked and was critically panned. The only performer to get good reviews across the board The Rock. Despite people heavyweight character actors like Harvey Keital and James Woods being in it. It's weird that Cena gets labeled the "Ultimate company man". Because thats a label that was assigned to quite a few different people over the years. Until they fell out with Vince over something. Every man has his breaking point. Cena may take longer to reach his than others. I hope it's the former.