El-P

What is Corny's timeline of him being involved in the WWF creatives ? I know he's gone sometime in 1997 (I guess not too long after Russo gets in, although he's now officially credited for the idea for the Montreal Screwjob), but I'm not exactly sure when he got involved. I would guess after SMW closed down shop. I believe the whole stop-start dynamic of the Vader vs Micheals match at SummerSlam was his, and it was a terrible idea which hurt the match even more than Micheals acting like a douchebag.

The absurdity is wonderful.

BTW, remember when Teddy Hart was fired from MLW some times ago ? Well, I was wondering what happened to him then (because I was watching that Mox vs DBS Jr. match from Bloodsport which was pretty good but nothing special, really, like this whole card). Well, he has been arrested no less than 5 times since then, including for this : https://411mania.com/wrestling/teddy-hart-reportedly-arrested-today/ Well.... Teddy Hart ladies and gentleman.

And Danny Davis, of course. I remember listening to those old Cornette podcasts and whenever he was talking about this period, he would refer to Batista as a "frail demon" and seemed pissed about him too. I don't remember why, but the term stayed with me, as Cornette criticized him because he was "always cold" or something, which is a pretty odd thing to do, really.

Those old-school Battle Royal really did not have that much action compared to the stuff of today, like the infamous Roissy Charles de Gaulles Airport Street Fight between Booba and Kaaris (two big star of the French rap game). Yeah, that's getting noticed in the hall of the airport, people. The guy bumping on the chairs never ever get old.

I googled it (again). Damn, that was fun !

They use tables, chairs and thumbtacks in the NBA too ?

Can we please stop getting injuries, please ? Damn, that sucks so much. Hopefully she'll get tips from Britt Baker on how to get better while recovering from injury.

I'll let the NBA fans fight against each other as I'm tiptoeing out of this damn thread....

Absolutely not ! I had to google the name. I don't watch sport (apart from sumo) ! Sorry !!!

He was not a good promo, he was not a good worker, he had no presence whatsoever despite looking good and being tall. That pretty much sums it up. I mean, I'm basically at late 2011 on my TNA watch (yeah, I STILL do that on occasion), and the guy STILL gets pushed regularly and he has never ever clicked not delivered a worthwhile performance, including against great workers. He just did not have it. I was watching the first Elimination Chamber last night and honestly Baron Corbin is ten times better than Morgan ever was (yeah, I just said something positive about Corbin).

In 2002 in OVW maybe. In 2007 in a company where you already have AJ Styles and Samoa Joe, that's another matter entirely. Not to mention Morgan had seemingly not improved one bit since then.

I was wondering about this, is WWE actually dreading having fans again ? I mean, they have been able to control "fan reactions" with the fake noise applied onto the Thunderdome tapestry, but for years now their audience has not been shy about shitting on whatever they did not like. Will we get fake noise at Mania despite a real live audience to get a controlled atmosphere ?

Thanks @Matt D, I had never seen that one, that's right up my alley ! Yeah, totally third the love for Grave Consequences. Casket matches basically became fun when they got worked like chaotic garbage brawls with the casket only being one element of it. Lucha Underground had all the awesome visuals to boot, so it was pretty much the best thing ever when I watched that. As far as this one goes, I'm willing to bet I'd enjoy the Kama one from 1995 better... I loved Kama back then. And no, I did not figure he was Papa Shango until he stopped wearing a shirt.

WrestleMania 22 (2006) – Undertaker vs Mark Henry The casket gimmick is never conducive to good matches because the dynamic is so tedious. I mean, pushing a body in a big box outside the ring and trying to shut the lid, that’s about it. Grand entrance for the casket (ya know, druids, torches and gregorian chants). Taker’s sole evolution this year is that he’s wearing tights all over, no more Diesel pants. I was pretty curious to see what Henry would bring to that match, most probably the biggest of his career thus far (I mean, Taker at Mania ?). The answer is : pretty much nothing. He’s barely above King Kong Bundy in 1995 level. For a guy whose entire gimmick is that he’s a beast and strong as hell, 95% of his offense here consists of very weak looking random punching and chocking. And yes he does catch Taker on a flying bodyslam, which is a spot Taker *never ever does* against *anyone else*, so there goes the forced counter gimmick spot aka You Can’t Powerbomb Kidman... which Henry follows by going for the pin. Either he really went for it and in this case he’s an idiot, either it was planned so that his character would look like an idiot. And indeed, the match is extremely tedious even with almost zero casket bullshit at play, as they end up both inside of it once and they do a goozle contest which is about as exciting as it sounds. Henry counters the Old-School once with a punch in the gut, which is a first, but eventually has to eat it. Taker doesn’t do much either, really, but Henry’s plodding, totally unimpressive offense and demeanor really makes the whole thing a whole lot of nothing. Hey, here’s another interesting new trope/spot, as Henry *also* climbs the corner to punch Taker in the face (like Orton the previous year), which allows Taker to do a... sorta... Last Ride... from the second floor really (the announcer calling it a Last Ride was funny as hell as Henry never was above Taker’s pecs level), Henry being very sloppily dropped almost on his neck. As much as it made sense when Trip did it at X7, it has now been used as a shortcut and a cliché spot that doesn’t need to make sense, it's just the way the powerbomb is set up now, because it is. The big spot of the match to distract from the fact it’s not being good at all is Taker doing his out of control plancha outside, clearing the casket and aiming for Henry. Yeah, doesn’t make much sense and doesn’t save the match either, as impressive at it looks. Tombstone, Henry in casket. Zero drama, Henry displaying jackshit in term of being a huge menacing monster as his offense was truly pathetic, Taker never ever in danger of even thinking about losing. Compete fail, and it did not even need to gimmick to fail, as it was a complete nothing match anyway. 5-9

The one thing I did not address about Corny is that he seems to make a causality link between the way workers work and the "lack of popularity" of modern wrestling. Like, if Matt Jackson did not "hulk-up" or if Kenny Omega would be a way more serious character, magically AEW would draw more viewers. That's not how it works. ie Hulk Hogan turning heel for the "first" time and being part of an "outlaw" faction with a super strong and fresh (and different, key factor) visual identity, then Steve Austin/Rock emerging with WWF switching to a much more violent and "edgy" product inspired by ECW (although they will never acknowledge this part, but come on now, the garbage matches, the table spots galore, the over-sexualization of women). The younger audience is watching streamers on Twitch. The really younger audience is doing stupid choregraphy on TikTok. This is not the same world. These are not the same people. And no, Corny, you can't make racist, homophobic and sexist jokes anymore and expecting nothing will happen on social media. That is the audience of today. But hey, Cornette's idea of the "next big thing" in TNA was Matt Morgan... Again, to me the Corny story is a sad one, because for a long time, he was one of the smartest guy anywhere in pro-wrestling (not to mention a GOAT promo/manager and announcer). He just lost the plot, and what's worse is that he mainly did for really petty reasons of irrational hate for a bunch of people who rubbed him the wrong way in the past. It is super sad. Two years ago still I would have loved to see Cornette work alongside the new generation and even maybe work a great angle like he did in ECW (for sheer favor to a friend, but still, he did it and it was great). These days... nah. As a long time huge Cornette fan, yeah, just sad.

So much fascinating stuff there. Thank you again and again. And really : And so the first theme in puroresu was a disco track by Les Clodettes, who weren't just some French girls, but the dancers for Claude François who basically was the biggest French pop star of the 60's and 70's (big time TV star too), and still basically a cult figure to this day ! And the music was apparently by Bernard Estardy, a quite famous (in some circles) figure of the library music scene. Mind blown.

That's an interesting stat and very telling of what WWE has become over the years. I mean, Miz is in a program with an actual mainstream star (I guess), so at least it's "understandable" from that point of view. But really now, the fucking Miz, WWE champion in 2021. Yikes. Talk about go-away heat.

I've gotta say this, Austin Aries was a great worker. Terrific promo, terrific heel, really good babyface too, and honestly what a joy to watch every time inside the ring from what I've seen over the years (in TNA). But what a complete and utter douche of a human being. And unprofessional to boot, his no-selling of the finish of the Jim Morrisson title match in IMPACT a few years ago is an all-time classic instance of complete assholery (although Johnny's puzzled look was so damn funny it was almost worth it !). At this point I wouldn't even be surprised if the guy was a flat-earther because "he did a lot of research on that"...

Yeah, pretty much. Sometimes sheer intensity and urgency goes a long way even though you're not doing a whole lot. Choshu is the best instance of this probably, yes. I don't want to spam the board with a barrage of review, plus I wanna let people comment or react or discuss about whatever if they want to. I do re-arrange them in the light of the whole story now, plus sometime I get infos on the thread itself (like opponent never going for a nearfall during the zombie period, which really I did not remember and could not get out of just watching the Mania matches). I initially wanted to spread this out until Mania, but I don't think I will.

Fuck that finish. Time to go to sleep.

The best thing that ever happened to Jax is having a famous cousin. She's incredibly comically bad. I'm amazed by how much she sucks.

I understand all of this. But the landscape of pro-wrestling has evolved tremendously since the 80's and 90's. People have evolved in the way they consume entertainment. Younger people from the 2010's are not the same as three or four decades ago. WWE is trying right now with Bad Bunny to reach a younger audience, who knows what that may produce in the long run. Maybe pro-wrestling will never be as popular as before. And so what ? Personally, I couldn't care less, the more mainstream pro-wrestling is, the less the product appeals to me usually (Hulkamania & the Attitude Era really did not produce what I like the most about pro-wrestling).

Matt Riddle, the Gérald Darmanin of the WWE Universe. Match was really good, still.

Got a laugh out of me. Which wasn't easy tonight.