El-P

I had been a fan of Lioness stuff with Kyoko and Jaguar in Neo & JD' in the late 90's, but by this point, Lioness was exposed to me as a selfish, formulaic worker with no interest putting anyone over or work toward the strenght of her opponent. This was good because Yoshida can't seem to have a bad match and Lioness formula basically garantees a basic level of action, but this is Lioness taking over with her usual bullshit. Death spiral indeed. And oh, yeah, Chama couldn't give a fuck at this point. Totally forgot about that LCO match too, and I'm like the biggest LCO mark (hell, I take some credit for people using the acronym LCO), that tells you my interest in the promotion, and soon joshi puroresu, had been gone.

As far as when the question of the thread was actually asked (damn, 10 years), it strikes me as I just reached the point when Russo was hired back as a writer that after about one year of very good, easy to watch, pro-wrestling TV which included tons of very good to great matches and booking that made sense and also a feeling of momentum (for a while) thanks to some actual stars showing up (Christian Cage, Team 3D, Sting), it took exactly ONE SHOW under Russo to get a "This is stupid !" chant from the audience. And it was not even during the match (an X-div match mind you) that involved laxatives. Under D'Amore's booking, especially with the move on Spike TV, TNA really was a cool little alternative promotion for a while. It did began to slow down during the summer of 06, especially around Slammiversary, but there were still really good stuff afterward. Then Russo is hired back. And we get laxatives and some shit involving a blow-up doll that incites a "This is stupid !" chant from the everloving TNA Asylum crowd. Up to that point, despite some truly awful stuff (from, yeah, Russo already, but also Dusty Rhodes who's stint as a booker there was pretty terrible), those D'Amore 15 months or so would absolutely prevent TNA from being called the worst promotion ever. Nothing touches WCW under Russo. I should know. Still, the fact that question was asked just a few months after that idiot came back to sink the promotion is pretty telling. The fact It took so long to never improve and never become relevant since then is also amazing. So, all this to say that, no, in 2007, TNA had not been the worst promotion ever, not by a long shot. 10 years of irrelevancy and stupid decisions one after another after that point... well, it's a long history of nothingness indeed.

That's a helluva quote right there. Quote of the year. I third this.

That episode on Fall Brawl 97. Epic stuff.

(edit, me not reading right, it's late over here ) Agree with all you said there.

That's not the only word or expression I think fits this angle. "Racist beating" comes to mind also. Probably more literal indeed, without the "death" implication, which always sounds odd when you talk about pro-wrestling, I will admit.

Wrestling is about representation. It was a bunch of wrestlers portrayed as both good and evil all ganging up on one (and the only) muslim character, beating him up together while people loudly chanted USA ! USA ! in the crowd. Make of that what you will in term of representation. Use whatever word best suited to you for this scene and what it was figuratively depicting (of course they didn't kill the guy, no shit). And no, the "heel" argument doesn't work, because all the other heels ganged up on the guy too, which made it quite the exceptionnal case of *everybody* teaming up to beat up one guy for one specific reason. Even in the jingoist days of Hogan, such of thing wasn't happening (Savage helped evil Iraki sympathiser turncoat to win the title just to fuck the Warrior). So what was portrayed here went further than just "groupe of guys eliminating another one from a battle royal". Anyway, this goes into "racist shit" thread in the MIS.

When every wrestler in the ring, faces or heels, stop all action, turn to one guy and beat him up collectively basically because he was "the muslim guy", that's called *lynching*. Lynching doesn't need hanging to be lynching. I guess in the Attitude era they would have Taker put him on his "symbol" too maybe. Anyway. This was gross, offensive and easily one of the lowest point ever of WWE TV. Anyway. Back to the India business, how ironic it is that 20 years after he vaunted *huge signing* of Tiger Ali Singh as the next WWE superstar, they actually have made their Indian heel champion and he's from Canada too ! Jinder is better in the ring that Tiger Ali, but who isn't ?

The lynching (there's no other word) of Hassan at that Royal Rumble is the most shocking, racist thing WWE ever produced. Just wrong and hateful. I can't believe they got away with this shit back then. (of course, the fact that Hassan was actually Italian and his manager was from Iran tells a lot about how well WWE people know or care about the world)

Felt rushed a little bit and I wasn't a fan of Daniels business outfit. Not fitting, pu intended, to brawl all over the place. However, since it was a TV match with a hot title change, it pretty much worked perfectly for what it had to accomplish, especially since LAX are supposed to be street thugs at heart, so they win *their* match, with Konnan's cheating to boot. Konnan's two best roles ever are this and his Lucha Underground mentor stuff. Such a crappy wrestler, but as a manager when actual hot topics and feuds, he was excellent both as a face and a heel. Gotta love the fact minorities still are portrayed as heels, too... (thankfully, Konnan was also acting like a dick and a two-face bastard, so he was indeed heeling it up, despite promos that actually made sense and that Ventura would have defended by using logic). Loving this LAX stuff so far, and it's much better than anything WWE ever did as far as using latino characters (I mean, the Mexicools...).

Oh yeah, these blurred shows were brutal. Logos were everywhere. The Blurry Era.

For fuck's sake. Are we comparing a terrible angle (which is scripted stuff executed by an employee) and cheating on your boyfriend (throw the first stone, people, there's nothing scandalous here) with actual *criminal activities* ? This is not a matter of "private life". It's the fact Moolah, from all accounts, was a true scumbag of a human being. Neither here nor there since it's the Mae Young Classic anyway. What the fuck was classic about Mae Young, you tell me. I remember her "flashing" her boobs at the Royal Rumble 2000, giving a birth to a hand and taking the table bump from the Dudleys at the highest of the mysoginic WWE booking. And well, there's a wee bit more about Mae too actually. Maybe Bix wants to post his article over here. As far as the tournament goes, good for the girls getting exposure. I may watch this, it's more interesting to me than the cruiserweight or UK indies stuff since the women have been more or less the saving grace of WWE in the last year or so.

Moolah was (supposedly, wink wink nudge nudge) pimping and abusing her girls. On a business level, she arguably destroyed women's wrestling in the US. Terrific legacy indeed. They could have name it the Trish Stratus Classic, if they had to go by WWE Universe Golden Age Only. If not, what the hell, Wendy Richter Classic.

In a post-colonial and imperialist context, it isn't called cheating, it's called resistance. All kidding aside, it's smart that he actually cut a babyface promo in his own language toward the punjabi people. That being said, with the cast system in India, I doubt Jinder Mahal would be even close to a man "of the people". Following a Marxist analysis, Jinder is from the upper-class, so he's an oppressor himself. But people love kings and such (hey, we actually elect a "king" every five years in France too). But yeah. These people should chant "asshole" or "cheater". The fact they chant "USA" shows how much things haven't changed in the pro-wrestling realm. Still waiting for a real positive middle-eastern character pushed as a main eventer. (Sami Zayn is from Lebanon origin, right ? HE'S RIGHT FUCKING THERE !!!!!)

So embarrassing for the girls taking part in that. The WWE bubble is such a pathetic thing.

Most TNA referees did suck, I'll give you that. (and Hebner did not help from the matches he's been involved in thus far)

Who in their right mind would ? (and he still pimps tons of WWE matches as "great" too, despite not being great at all in my book)

They're ok for the experience level. Much better than Nia Jaxx, that's for sure. Just that. Ok. Fine. Bad looks (I always hated the Shield look, dating back to Big Boss Man in 1999) but fine otherwise. The match still was a pre-programmed clusterfuck. I like chaos and stupid shit when it looks like chaos and stupid shit, not carefully set-ups spots where you can almost write the script as it is going on.

Big ladders, small ladders, medium ladders... I climb slow, look at me setup a cute spot... Put up some ladders, Eliminators would yawn... Holy shit ! Holy shit ! Jeff Hardy taught us to work ! That ladder match was exactly the kind of stuff I don't care one bit for in 2017, especially when it's such poorly paced and way too written in advance. Seriously, the AoP just are greenhorns who look like they think about the script before each move they make. Way too contrived, felt inorganic as hell and this is basically the Hardys/E&C/Dudleys/MITB school of ladder matches, which I can't stand. Taking huge, dangerous and painfull bumps for the sake of it. Tell me again about the wonderful WWE mentality being better than the indies or NJ in term of busting up bodies. Worst match of the night. The heel turn was excellent though. Well, apart from that, that Takeoever was still the best in a long time.

Thanks for the lecture. I wouldn't thought about this, really. Except, really, TNA 2006 was still was closer to what ECW was in term of letting the rules fly, for better or worse. When this shit turns basically into a texas tornado match, you go with the flow. Makes much sense ? Nope. But does it work in context ? Sure. Oh, anyway...

Maybe, but I don't give a fuck about any of them (and that includes the announcers whom I don't have to suffer through anyway, and the crowd who sucked).

The only worthwhile stuff Davey did in WCW was a mini-feud against other european guys on Thunder, working against Finley, Regal (I believe he was still there) and Adams.

I thought Roode vs Itami was better than the UK match. Sure, that UK match was full of cool shit. But, not being familiar with either of them, that's what it looked like to me. A match full of cool shit that you kick out of many many times, then do a fun shot exchange that would go over like crazy in Japan, then more cool shit and stupid bumps and a finisher that looks right out of Chris Sabin/Petey Williams/Eric Shelley X-div match in 2006 (I should know, that's what I'm actively watching these days). And for what it was, yeah, tons of fun. *Great* match ? I wouldn't go that far. I wonder how much the novelty aspect plays into the overhype for this stuff. But to me, it's toward excellent mindless indy spotfu. I like Bate the most (love the Backlund-like strenght stuff). Meanwhile, I thought Roode & Itami worked a match that showed more purpose, with lots of great selling, actual cool offense too at times although it wasn't nearly as spectacular of course. But as a pro-wrestling match with, wait for it, "storytelling" and more of a sense of a build, it was better and I enjoyed it more. They worked perfectly well together, unlike the Nak match (which tells something about Nak to me, again). I despise the "glorious" bit, although I guess Roode isn't even supposed to be a heel anymore, is he ? Anyway, I thought this was excellent. Odd to see that Roode is basically the exact character he was when he quit Team Canade in 2006 to become "the hottest free agent in the business". He's basically the same guy... ...whereas Eric Young, while not being the same guy, was already showing signs of being out of his rocker at the same period in 2006 after Team Canada was disbanded. Kinda odd and funny sense of logic here. Match with Strong went too long, but it was a perfectly solid match. I don't see the issue about Young at all. Except of course the whole Sanity stuff is stupid when they do those robotic WWE intro... ...much like the girl of the group is doing. Kinda embarrassing and not credible one bit. Pillman looked crazy (while still overdoing it tbh). She's just doing a bad routine. As far as work goes however, I liked her a lot. I also enjoyed Ruby. And Asuka ruled as always, and despite Three-ways being one of the most annoying gimmick, they had a very good match. Rough around the edge, but it made the cool shit un-cutesy, which is nice. I always enjoy the fact we have different types of bodyshape and looks here. Asuka taking advantage of the situation got me back to that multi-man with Samoa Joe in, well, TNA 2006, and although it's obvious it's not exactly the same kind of aura and booking, there's something comparable to their unbeaten streak. Right down to the "Joe/Asuka is gonna kill you" chant. Which is one of my favourite chant, dating back to Taz in ECW, where it all began I believe. Keeping the tag match for later. But with a solid match at worst, a very good one and two excellent ones already, this show is easily the best Takeover in a long time and murders this terrible Sunday PPV. Yeah, NXT sure is a winner as far as training new talent... well, wait... well, it's fun anyway. (hearing Kenta Kobashi & Manami Toyota names on a WWE broadcast, how times have changed)

I should have copyrighted that stuff.

Agreed (although I haven't watched his career in detail, but I know that's always been his reputation). That being said, he has coasted in *every* match in WWE thus far. There's a reason for that too as of now, his body is broken down after years of abuse in Japan, so it's very understandable. There's that, but there's also that whole India deal that comes to mind. We have a guy who sucks (basically), who's roided to the grill, who was a JTTS his whole career, and who only gets a world title push because of a TV deal in India, where WWE doesn't even tour (yet). It's like, fuck the audience who's actually paying to watch the show in the building, what matters are the executives of some TV channel in India where, if you believe Meltz, they don't even sell shit in merchandise (yet). Charles said earlier in this very thread that the audience that mattered today was Wall Street. Surely that's a topic that should go in the MIS but it's kinda depressing when you think about it because it fucks up the product like never before because basically, the viewing audience *doesn't matter*. And no matter how hard people are defending the Roman Reigns push, the reality is that in any other era, a guy rejected as he is would simply not be pushed as a babyface like that or would be turned heel to try and make it a success in another way. Today, it doesn't matter anymore and we indeed get the kind of meta booking that is funny 1 out of 1000 time (like Reigns at the Rumble) but mostly makes the product pretty unwatchable in the grand scheme of things. It's all shallow "writing", trolling the "smarts" and checking the value of your stocks.