El-P

That's one of the big mainstream newspaper in France. Seriously people. Fucking Lemmy.

That Yoshida vs Fukawa match is still the best 10 minutes match I've ever seen. It was such a cult match in our little circle back then. Yeah, Candy was all obnoxious and shit at this point. I do wonder if her back injury that forced her to retire from JWP didn't come back to haunt her after her first year in ARSION where she worked extra hard though. Because she changed her style with more coasting and more bullshit and retired again in early 2001. I need to find a working VCR sometime… Really cool thread and see some ARSION love in 2016. (yeah, I'm repeating myself, but I'm old)

That's classy and selfless. Very nice, Jericho.

Absolutely second this. I third this. Naito is brillant. I already have a MOTYC for 2017.

Tanahashi vs Naito : MOTYC. Already. Great, great match. Everything great about pro-wrestling is right there. And it's really a pretty conservative match in term of spots. Sure, it's modern but it's not heavy on ridiculous stuff, it's pretty tight in how it's put together. And Naito is such a smart worker. Just terrific to watch, although he doesn't do that much outside of his formula, but he knows how to do the important detail things and do them well. Tanahashi still is a great worker. Sorry for those who can't see that. That guy saved New Japan after the disastrous early to mid 00's and the lost generation + the Inokism, he's obviously banged up and on the sliding slope of his career, yet on big occasions he still looks like hecan work circles around anyone. Fuck the haters, this may be the MOTY when all is said and done. It's close to perfect and never goes into excess unlike... Omega vs Okada : So, that's the infamous 6 stars match ? Okay, Let's pretend I didn't hear that. Well, it's a whole lot of wandering around for the first 20 minutes. Them throwing a DDT on the outside after 5 mn didn't sit well with me. Ok, work the back, work the neck. Nothing thrilling really. The match picks up after Omega's insane quebrada to the outside. Ok, that bump into the table is amazing. But they don't do that much with it. Really Okada, you can't even *try* a pinfall after this ? His insistance on applying the Rainmaker is a pretty sad sign that WWEMANIA style of main events made its way into New Japan. But Okada has that WWEism about him that I don't like. So, it's a bomb throwing match. Not that great, but good for what it is. But I checked out after the dragon suplex from the top. Ok, how isn't *THIS* the finish ? Seriously ? Again, that comes directly from ROH shitwork that never understood why AJPW used to be so great. Hint : it was not because they dropped themselves on their head a lot and then kicked out. So, after that point, I was out of the match. If at least Okada would have sold dead for ever until a comebac on the edge, well, yes, that would have worked for me. But this was just the usual deal of kicking out of shit doing more shit and kicking out of it. And that Rainmaker, ok, but when Okada does two devastating spots in a row, get for a fucking pin attempt already. Omega was bumping like a maniac, but grimacing way too much. Not as ridiculous as he could be, but nowhere near his best stuff from the G1. The ending was nice, I guess, but came way too late. I dunno. If you cut 20 minutes you get a very good bomb-throwing match with some ridiculous shit. As it is… Not even as good, as a whole, as the Young Bucks vs Roppongi Vice, the Tag team fun cluster and easily the lesser match of the second half. I don't even get why this match would have some special aura at all, really. It was the same deal as usual. Yeah, that table bump is for the ages, but well… A true "Mania moment". Well, wait, the day Omega gets in the WWE, he'll be unbearable. Okada can still have a MOTYC match with the right opponent, as showed by his latest Marufuji match. Omega can also have a MOTYC, and even better than this, if he's reigned in, which wasn't the case here (setting didn't help as he was going for his epic, obviously). What I get from this night : Tetsuya Naito is still the best wrestler in the world today.

Clipping comes from com tapes format. ARSION had no TV until 2001 when they ended up with two hours a months on Samurai I believe.

JWP.

KUSHIDA vs Hiromu Takahashi : Never seen Takahashi before. Man, NJWP is really gimmicked up. Not sure I like that. Really impressed by KUSHIDA in this match. He brought the agression, viciousness, stiffness. Takahashi brought blown spots. Okay, that's rough, but he did blow one pretty badly. I liked the focus on the arm, although it's KUSHIDA's usual game. Really well done and paced, without going into overdrive, especially for a junior match. The ending stretch was great. This was excellent/great, although I'm not sold on Takahashi yet. KUSHIDA looked like a ring general. Shibata vs Goto : Big spectacle match which suits the Dome perfectly. Awazing stiffness and crispness from Shibata, who's gimmick is that he's a "wrestler". Which, in a way, is kinda sad for Japan. I haven't got through the thread since I avoided spoilers, but I guess this gets great feedback. I loved parts of this, but way too many no-selling shit for me to call this a great match. A great spectacle and an excellent match, yes. Shibata is gimmicky, but he's very fun to watch. But he's a bit gimmicky to me, which limits his appeal/talent to me. Goto looks like his best days from the G1. Still, none of these two are elite workers. Not that I need them to be to enjoy their matches. 6 title change. And two more on the way. There are WAY TOO MANY TITLES in this promotion. It's ridiculous. Cut it down already.

I stayed away from the hype. Although I know about the infamous 6 stars, of course. Not that it influence my viewing whatsoever. Not sure if it's a good sign though. Tiger vs Tiger : cool little anime spotfest. Those masks are pretty swank. Lucha Underground needs some japanese guys. Or that ACH dude under a cool mask. Young Bucks vs Roppongi Vice : I did a 180° on the Bucks in the last six months. I thought this was really good. Tons of cool, funny shit. The Bucks sure know how to get over and do a whole lot more than just gymnastics. I do feel like they toned down their act a bit too, I mean the spotty aspect of it. Great tights too, as usual. Liked that quite a bit. And then we get into a long stretch of nothingness... Bullet Club vs Kojima/Ospreay/Finlay vs LIJ : Takahashi is such a useless worker than he get even get really hot strippers in Tokyo (well, ok, except the masked one). Pretty sad. Yeah, the Bullet Club looks like NWO B-Team indeed. Time to wrap up this deal, it's old as fuck. Finlay si going for worse look currently in the entire pro-wrestling scene with this sloppy hair, beard and this hideous tights right out of Saved By the Bell colour scheme and font. A WWF jobber in 1994 would not have worn that. Kojima is doing his requisite four spots, which includes the über annoying machnegun chops in the corner, while OSpreay is the most ridiculous wrestler ever. A mix of RVD/Amazing Red on coke with Randy Orton-like "acting". It's so obvious he's a complete mark for his own spots, it's embarrassing, he's not even trying to be a pro-wrestler. Ricochet on the other hand, he's the same kind of worker, only good. How long before he gets signed by NXT ? LIJ are cool and kinda save this cluster, but not really. Cody vs Juice Robinson : And then, there's Juice actually taking the cake for poor choice of tights and color scheme. Those dreadlocks have to go to. He's ok. Cody is soooo WWE-00's-like. Why would anyone in Japan care about this guy ? Fast forward material. Speaking of which, Adam Cole vs KOR was complete "let's cosplay strong-style at the dome", which confirms, if need be, that I won't watch ROH anytime soon, or ever. GOD vs CHAOS vs GHB : El Hijos del Haku have never looked better. Ishii fucking up everyone was fun. Yano did his bit, which I always get into. Makabe was fine palying old power man. Yeah, this was good, best match on the show thus far. This undercard underlines the lack of depth in native talent. Way too much gaijins, including gajins I don't give a fuck about. The back to back US matches were dreadful. Cody is just not very good at pro-wrestling. I have no idea why I should care about Adam Cole, although as a third man on a 6-men tag team match he'd be fine. KOR vs Shibata was really fucking good, but Shibata working pure ROHism wasn't. The Bullet Club guys are just there (and Takahashi can go to, his intro with average looking hoes is still the best minute from his matches). Ospreay is a parody. Where are the japanese guys anyway ? Well. Well. Ok.

E6 over-delivered. Son of Havoc & Mascarita Sagrada vs Dr. Wagner Jr. & Famous B is exactly the kind of bullshit I like in LU if done right, and this was exactly it. Brenda does the best Dawn Marie airhead act too. I want more of this and less of Texano vs Cage spotfests. I've never liked Sexy Star and the character much, but since they did that Pentagon match, I must admit they do the best job imaginable with her, as the Jack Evans match was again well worked beyond what I'd expect, with Star looking quite badass in the process. I've heard the worst things about this whole push to the title, but thus far, I must say I have nothing bad to say about it. They've gone completely into Kill Bill mode and why not. I like little details like Melissa Santos clapping for Star during the match. Involvement ! She's so great. And then, although I usually don't care for triple threat matches to begin with, Rey Rey, Chavito and Pentagon Dark manage to have a good one. With a cool post-match that got tons of heat (yeah, heat, although I suspect maybe some of it was added in post-prod, but who knows) for Chavo. Enjoyed that episode a lot.

E5. Ok, I'm not getting into this Cage vs Texano deal (too indieriffic), but Puma vs Matanza was quite the good main event, with the great Mil run-in at the end. Damn, Catrina's look this season... Ivelisse & her new annoying boyfriend vs that creep Marty the Moth & Cheerleader Mariposa I can get into, especially Ivelisse slapping the fuck out of Marty, who's been consistently entertaining. I can feel the Sexy Star stuff coming and I don't look forward to, although her match against Pentagon was way better than it had the right to. I didn't notice the "I'm kind of a big deal" stuff in Dario's office. I want the same one.

It's less an issue of nearfalls and what moves are used to produce them. It's an issue of false finishes. Nowadays, you usually have a thousand nearfalls but zero false finish. Back during AJPW's glory days, you actually had false finishes. Raven, of all people, used to produce legit false finishes with his dog & poney show. The indierrific styles just as the WWE self-consicous Mania epic style have zero false finish, it's all about nearfalls for the sake of it, often with the thought that kicking out of a finisher means it's shocking and exciting, when in fact it's not unless it's being bought as the actual finish. Which doesn't happen since everyone kicks out of finishers all the time, and only one finisher can end the match anyway. (well of course you can argue people are going crazy for it, but I'm speaking for myself of course) The infamous Taker loss was the perfect illustration. No one bought the finish because people actually thought it was gonna be an usual near-fall via finisher kick-out. It's like the whole thought-process had been reversed. If people bought it as a true potential finisher and it ended up being the finish, then it would have been awesome because "Shit, Taker is done ! SHIT HE IS DONE !!!" But it flopped because people were like "Wait, why wasn't this a near-fall ? Did Taker actually lost ?" Build to one false-finish, and then you get a fucking moment where you buy what's happening. The move itself doesn't matter, it can even be cheap spot or a run-in, it's what it leads to that matters. It's the build to the idea that it is it. The use of near-falls for the sake of near-falls, with kicking out of finishers galore, is bad because they don't actually produce any false finish. Because the idea is that just the number of near-falls is what makes a match great. Which is wrong, of course.

From memory it was one of Fukuoka's last matches. She had a neck injury and retired not too long after that. It was a part of her retirement tour, so she'd work with her old friend Candy, who herself retired once (an amazing thing to see BTW, Candy's retirement in JWP) before coming back in ARSION. SO if it felt like an exhibition of moves, it's because that's basically what it was, as a way to say goodbye. Fukuoka had the sickest finisher ever, the insane moonsault footstomp. I really enjoyed that girl. And yeah, Candy was getting a bit annoying at that point. Fujita never developped into a complete worker from what I remember, but she sure had a look to her. Liked her too. Ah, that Yoshida vs Futagami match was a MOTYC to me back then.

You just defined GAEA post 1998. This is pretty much the main criticism we (as in : me and a bunch of joshi fans at the time) used to make back then. Pretty much words for words. Really frustrating for the Oz fans. (although in all honesty, Hokuto was pretty washed up by then, Lioness was not that great and KAORU... well, she was KAORU, make of that what you want. )

Hilarious bullshit first fall via DQ by the heel ref, then Ano 2000 takes a chance and bashes Perro's head's in with brass knucks. Then goes the bloody brawl, with matwork to boot and footstomps in the gut. Blood everywhere, it looks like Mascara has changed mask when infact he's just bleeding buckets. Only in lucha libre I guess at this point. Excellent use of the seconds, specially the heel one (whom I don't know because I'm just a lucha beginner) and the finish is glorious. I have no idea what the consensus is in the lucha libre community, but I thought it was terrific. Such a gritty, old-school feel. MOTYC level for 93 I'd say.

Damn, La Parka's entrance to Thriller. This guy had so many charisma already. Crazy to think no one in WCW even thought about pushing him, with the bonus size to work in front of the US crowd. Anyway, this is really good for a while, then they kinda lose the pace and exchange way too many two-falls kick-outs without much rythme or reason. The controversial pin should have worked. Then the restart was more of the same, kinda paceless near-falls. Too bad because it was really damn good for a while and kinda fell apart in the third part. La Parka looked great though.

After two decades of hearing how awful and historic this match was, I found it actually disappointing in that's in rather a nothing match with a completely bullshit finish. And a stip that wasn't enforced. So ok, Konnan was already an horrid worker in 1993. He's wearing a Warrior-circa 92 singlet, or is it a proto-RVD singlet ? Anyway, he's awful as he's always been it seems. Cien Caras looks at least solid at points. First pinfall looks like shit because Konnan can't even execute his own spot. Second fall is idiotic. Third fall... count-out ? Really ? Were the people horrified because Konnan lost or because the match ended on a complete bullshit finish ? I have no earthly idea what the mexican audience saw in Konnan. None. At least I've learned why he's called Konnan. El Barbario. Ooooooh. So that's where this goofy name came from. I had no idea. Ok. Jake Roberts makes faces. Not exactly thrilling, although he looks devious like Bray Wyatt wishes he could look. It's crazy to think this drew almost 50..000 people (or what that the terrific Perro Aguayo vs Mascara Annos 2000 bloody brawl that came before ?) while WWF and WCW drew flies in the US at the same point. So I guess that's true, Konnan was a big star in Mexico. Why ? Again, I have no idea. At least Vamp looked cool and freaky. Konnan was basically a gringo from Puerto Rico with goofy hair and zero ability. Also, if he lost a career match in April of 1993, why were we subjected to more than a decade of awful matches, stupid videos and calling for his dawgs (where they at anyway ?) ?

Yeah, but aside from the facts he wears black and throws stiff kicks, his matches don't bear much resemblance to shoot style. Indeed. It's really shooty-style turned into a pro-style gimmick, wirhout much of teh actual shoot-style stuff. He's not nearly as good as Takada was at this game. (although I like Shibata, he's quite good)

Well, I told so so. Cool to see some Yoshida love in 2016. I feel like hearing myself 17 years go, in an odd way.

GAEA was consistently the most overrated joshi promotion post 1997. And they clearly went down after 1999 when the whole super-heel stable had gone stale. Watch any other, which had more or less zero hype except ARSION a little bit, although by 2000 it was seriously going down, and you can only be pleasantly surprised by good stuff you maybe wouldn't expect (although careful with Zenjo and the Momoe craze in the early 00's). GAEA had a few great moments (the Aja vs Satomura feud, whenever Nagashima was put in a position to shine) and plenty of by-the-number stuff with great veterans mailing it in.

I had no idea. I find that fascinating. And yes, I can't echo more the fact that it sounds awful. The WWE delivery is one element why I can't watch their TV and only care about doing some cherry-picking with matches and workers.

I dunno. If I watch older pro-wrestling, it has nothing to do with nostalgia. Me re-going through the 90's of WCW and ECW was partly that. I grew up on WWF Superstars. I have no inclination on rewatching this stuff and WWF PPV's I have seen a zillion times. At this point, if I watch older stuff (hell, TNA 2005 is more than ten years old) it's because it's fresh to me, not because it's some kind of glory days I want to relive or bath myself into because I hate the current stuff. I have bashed the current stuff for years. Right now I'm at a point where I find myself not only enjoying, but also being excited about some of the current stuff, including (gasp) some WWE matches. And I'm glad I do. I have let some of the preconceived ideas I had slide and decided it was better to go with (some of) the flow and enjoy it for what is it. There are tons of stuff I dislike about the current scene. Then again, there were tons of stuff I disliked about the scene 17 years ago. I focus on what I actually enjoy and what brings me joy. Opinions of others, be it the old fuckers or the young punks ? Water off a duck's back. As far as borrowing what worked in the 80's, maybe. I'm more interested in new forms of pro-wrestling to be honest, as ridiculous as it can be. That's why Lucha Underground and the Total Deletion insanity were my favourite pro-wrestling TV in 2016 (not talking about matches here, although some LU stuff was indeed great).

Agreed. Tons of great stuff in the 80's. And every "decade"'s fashion is ridiculous once you look back at it BTW. Look at the horror of early 90's color schemes. Eurodance anyone ? Wanna take a look back as those nu-rave and tektonik idiots from the 00's too, those damn fluokids ? It's all ridiculous bullshit that looks dated and laughable ten years after.

Come on, it's like a luchaxploitation movie. This is what is great about it. Pro-wrestling will never be above C-level TV show anway. Gotta dig that infamous "wrestling vs porn" thread already. People longing for 80's TV wrestling from their 2016 wrestling TV is just another case of Retromania to me. I'm done with this way of thinking. (off topic : the use of the French term "faux" instead of "fake" as a way to, I guess, put emphasis on the fact, always struck me as a way to "sound cool" when I read it, but maybe it's nothing like that and as no implicit meaning at all, so don't take it the wrong way. I've been seeing it for years and never could quite get my finger on the exact meaning behind that particular "code switching" deal. Just curious about it, if anyone can enlight me on this, that'd be cool).

And the answer to the question (basically a matter of "us vs them" *again*) is : no. I don't feel alienated by anyone. I have enjoyed current pro-wrestling in 2016 again after more than 15 years of layoff. I've seen some legit great matches, which felt modern and fresh (thank you Naito, Charlotte, Sasha, Revival). I love Lucha Underground. Sure, the smarky chants inherited from the ROH/TNA 00's are annoying. But then again, WWE fans of the Attitude era going nuts for Sable were fucking annoying too, as were idiots WCW fans sitting on their hands during Finley's matches and going crazy for boring nWo shit in 1998. And the ECW mutants… And the racist homophobic fans of the 80's chanting "faggots"… What is the worse, really ? So, the answer is no.