El-P

Don't mention it. As far as labels go, I don't intend on putting a smiley each and every time I write something than is not necessarely to be taken litteraly. I know it's 2016, but I'm not an emoticon fanatic.

Nonsense. Just watch Lucha Underground. There's plenty of all of this, plus cool matches to boot. (and the whole crying about focusing on matches only is so US-centric anyway, if you're a fan of japanese stuff, yeah I know it's not cool anymore, there was nothing but the matches basically) (funny how the tide has turned so much that people are actually advocating Vince Russo's old theory about how matches aren't that important) (basically, the snobs of yesterday (aka = workrate) have turned int the mainstream audience, and the "idiots" of then-years (aka = angles, stories, skits) have turned into the hipsters)

They made kind of a big deal with Candy being "trained" by Sayama before she debuted the Tiger Dream gimmick, but she was just awkward with it, not at ease with the requisite Tiger spots. It shows how lucha influenced ARSION was (and was gonna be even more in the months to come). Hiromi Yagi in ARSION. A wet dream of any respectable JWP fan. Yagi will bring more awesomeness in 1999. And yes, she had the style too. Where the hell are my tapes ?!

"Those Twitter and tumblr fans are the worse. They ruin pro-wrestling with their NJ and indy fetish". Some pro-wrestling board smark. Late 2010's "In my days, we used to tell stories. Now it's just a bunch of moves." Maria Kanellis. Sometime in the late 00's. "Internet fans don't know shit and have ruined the business. Pro-wrestling was much better when kayfabe was still around." Every active wrestler. Early 00's. "That Ric Flair guy sucks. He makes pro-wrestling looks like choregraphed shit with his cartoony antics bullshit. Wrestling in the 80's sucks. It's all a bunch of people running around and gimmicks". Some old Lou Thesz fan in 1986. "Gorgeous George ? Are you kidding me ? Pro-wrestling used to a treated seriously in my days." Some old fucker born in the late 19th century. Pro-wrestling was always better before. Before what ? Just BEFORE.

Agreed. This is so indecent.

It sucks indeed.

You really make me want to rewatch that stuff I loved so much. Has AKINO debuted yet ? Don't remember the timeline, but her debut was like the best debut match ever. She was Yoshida's pet project and she was simply terrific from the get go. Ayako was a lot messier, but she was pushed basically to the moon at a very young age, and all things considered, she did pretty damn well.

Well done Charles ! Happy birthday to the board ! To the next ten years of pro-wrestling crazy and irrational fandom.

Right now, Nia Jaxx is a rookie wrestling like a third rate Eagle Sawaii (and old joshi watchers know that is not a compliment at all). With a terrible look. Monster Ripper as Bertha Faye was more intimidating and way more devastating (well, she was Monster Ripper after all). Nia's green as hell, so she's got time. But she isn't showing much potential to me. And she's doing the easiest style in the world. Not feeling it. And it's too bad, because a women division needs a good monster too.

DIY vs Tajiri & Tozawa was excellent. You can see Tajiri is only doing his requisite spots, but he can still deliver them, so good for him. Tozawa did the brunk of the match though, never saw him before, he's quite the worker. Nia Jaxx vs Asuka was nothing. Because Nia Jaxx basically is a nothing worker at this point. She bores me to tears whenever she gets on offense. She's just big and that's it. The preppy make up doesn't help her complete lack of aura, and she looks lost a whole lot. Asuka was basically having a match by herself. Have her against Charlotte, please. She's totally wasted in NXT, no one even approach her level of work and aura. Samoa Joe vs Nakamura was very good, but there's something definitely missing with this pairing. Don't know if that's because Nak is cruising at this point, but it really isn't on par Nak's best stuff in NXT. Which basically was his first match. I can feel the old WWF syndrome with Nak. He should have been thrown in the mix like AJ immediately. Right now, it's like he settled in a WWE comfort zone, and good for him not breaking up his body in a "dev" territory. It's kinda ridiculous though to see Nak headlining a glorified big indy show in Japan when he headlined the Tokyo Dome. He needs show up at the Rumble. Saddest part of the show was the japanese audience doing dual chants and even worst, "This is awesome" at one point. I dunno, maybe this was the work of gaijins, but I don't think it was. Please, let's not have all the different audience in the world ape the smarky US chants. It sucks. It also shows that the chants are perceived to be part of the show and "required" from the audience. Lack of character if you ask me.

Well, you did warn me. It was like the worst LU show ever. It never really felt like a true lucha libre show like CMLL was anyway, with zero trios match. Johnny Mundo's entrance was gold though, but the match with Pentagon was not very good. Usual Mundo spotfest without heeling (he looks much better in 6-men matches in LU). Pentagon kinda working face didn't do much for me either, although he looks like a star. The three-way was just that, a three-way with its share of clunkiness. Still don't think much of Texano Jr. He's solid. I don't see anything special in him. The four team tag team title match was a total clusterfuck, with some great diving sequences. What else... The LU match I liked, although it lacked heat, only Rey Jr. was really over (and damn, was he over). Vampiro totally fucked up on announcing was classic though. Had me rolling. The only thing I enjoyed in the undercard was the Apache match, probably because it was cool to see Faby still looks like a excellent worker. Going back to the ARSION days, when Mari Apache broke the mold of crappy luchadoras before Faby became even better. Well, it was different and clusterfucky but it did tell a story, and Faby is a trooper. The old FMW fan in me enjoyed the bloodletting. Speaking of which, I did love the main event. Crazy, insane brawling which actually built into the insanity, although one can argue the selling was not exactly consistent (it wasn't, but it was all about the insanity). I could have done without the run-ins at the end (damn, Damian is still around ? And Psychosis has become kinda fat), pretty useless, especially the swerve with Doc Wagner, but the final spot was grand in its ECW stupidity. Dunno if I'd call this a great match, but the seediness, dirtyness and plain crass violence was something else. Gotta love the fact kids are in the audience. Mexico. A different kind of culture. I admit I like my pro-wrestling in its non-hygienist glory. So there. Great intros too BTW, especially Psycho Clown. Well, I'd probably call this a MOTYC anyway. So, pretty clusterfucky card, with tons of stuff that didn't look too good and wasted potential, but one memorable match/angle in the undercard and one amazing crazy main event. AAA does look like a completely different product than CMLL. I'm sure the pure lucha fan hate AAA. Is Konnan involved with them still ?

Ok, but will Steve Austin face Brock Lesnar ?

So I decided I was gonna watch both lucha libre supershows from this year. Because why not ? First, start with CMLL 83 Anniversario. Well, this would go down as the first complete lucha show I would watch. Only watched isolated matches over the years. And it was a blast. No bad match, although the luchadoras match wasn't exactly good, although good in spots. The first trio match with the exotico and Shocker, who's now 1000% beer gut it seems, was quite fun. Quite a bit of comedy but also got me into the mood and pace. Old-ass Shocker seems fun enough. That Corleone guy is the blow-job babyface and knows how to throw a punch. Mephisto seems like a good worker. Super Crazy vs Rey Buccanero was rough in spots, especially Rey doing the worst Canadian Destroyer ever, followed by the second worst Canadian Destroyer ever. Until then, it was quite the good old, fat & ugly luchadors match. Crazy is still that. I enjoyed it despite the blown stuff. Nice nearfalls toward the end. Yeah, nearfalls ! How foreign. First big trios match was very good. So, Mistico came back under another name. It will get confusing later. I guess Negro Casas really is Mexico's Jushin Liger, he still looks mighty fine for his age, and in great shape to boot. Felino and his mascot was all goofy and shit, but I did laugh. Doradas I've seen before in Japan, and damn, that guy is amazing. So seems to be Cavernario, in his own style. Really good stuff. Second big trios match was, well, great I guess. I had seen Los Guerreros once before, in Japan too. They rule. Ok, so who the fuck is this Mistico ? Plus he's basically wearing the old Mistico mask, isn't he ? So he kinda looks like Caristico. Isn't this awkard ? Volador directly endears himself to me by coming out to DM's "Personnal Jesus". Valiente is a stocky guy who can do tons of cool shit like Silver King, kinda. Well, I loved every minute of this. How can anyone not become a fan of Los Guerreros after just one match ? Hard to get ? To get what ? Come on people. No idea what is the consensus of the main event. I thought it developed nicely into an excellent match. Holy shit, apron spots. Brutal. Are they going puroresu on my ass already ? You don't need to see a hundred match to feel how a low-blow aka foul is still *huge* in Mexico. This is nice. BTW, the heat is tremendous, and I'm not talking about the constant buzzing and horns that can be distracting for the first 20 minutes or so. I'm talking about heat for the babyface and against the bullshit. Yeah, well done epic match, although I have no idea who these two are, again, it doesn't take much "work" to get what is more or less happening there. So yeah. Maybe because it's totally fresh to me, but this was the most fun current show I have watched probably all year (loved the NXT Takeovers but there was always some bad undercard match I didn't care one bit about, and some NJ undercard matches are kind of a chore to get through). Again, not to sound like an asshole, but the whole "lucha is hard to understand" seems a wee bit ridiculous to me. It took me about one match and a half to get used to the pace and get the oh-so-complex rules of the trios matches, complete with the way the first two falls usually happens. Yeah, it's a bit different. But on the other hand there's so much that is so obvious to any random pro-wrestling fan. More than when you get yourself a UWF-I show for the first time. Anyway. This was excellent. Gonna watch Triplemania next, with a bunch of Lucha Underground people so it should be just as easy. I did say it was probably too late at this point for me to "get into" lucha, after not caring to do so until then, but since I do contradict myself quite a bit IRL (especially about stuff I like to be wrong about), hey, maybe actually 2017 will be the year when I watch lucha libre on a regular basis. Why not ? It's fresh to me. And it's easy to do so now. So. There's more I could say about production (which kinda sucked, with TNA level fuck up by the director), or the overall atmosphere of the show (which I loved), but hey, if I buy myself a lucha mask for next year, I'll have more chance to adress those.

Hirose Hase & Kensuke Sasaki vs Rick Steiner & Scott Norton sometime in 1990 is an excellent match and a thousand times better than the überoverrated Dome show match from the same year. The fact Norton subbed for Scott gave the match a whole new dynamic instead of just being a stupid Steiner spotfest, and it turned into the natives vs two gaijin monsters. Hase being the worker he was back then, and Sasaki being game as hell made it a most surprising quality match. Probably best Norton match ever too. And yeah, that Cat running gag was quite funny. Then again, The Cat was gold. Always liked Norton too.

Raven vs Monty Brown vs Abyss vs AJ Styles vs Sean Waltman (King of the Mountain match) It's official, the King of the Mountain match is my favourite overthought gimmick match. It should not work. But it's the second one I see, and it's even better than the first. It's both insanely convoluted yet makes perfect sense in execution. And it's *fun* because you can actually tell stories amidst the crazy spots. The fact people get send in the cage allows startegies to take place. The cage + ladder makes setups for crazy shit, and does it deliver. Amazingly, Jeff Jarrett gets "arrested" before the show, so he doesn't get to do the job in his own gimmick match. What a great carny Jarrett is. I guess it makes for a better match, as everyone contributes in a very positive way. Monty Brown pounces people left and right and throw bodies around. This guy had so much potential. AJ Styles and Sean Waltman are making plans while being stuck in the cage at the same time, but of course Waltman crosses Styles at the right time, so it sets up a feud between the two. Raven bleeds like it's ECW 97, Abyss does his share and, well, the final is awesome, with a serie of spectacular, brutal spots which actually *make sense* and allow Raven to win the NWA title. Whoever booked this must be praised. Yeah. I say it, this is a great garbage gimmick match, with stories, insane shit and a truly chaotic feel, while never going overboard on the ridiculous. And Raven winning had me mark out eleven years after the fact. Great cap off a nice PPV which had the debut of Samoa Joe, and a few really good segments like the best use of Jimmy Hart in eons and a fun send-off for Scott D'Amore who will get busy backstage booking, apparently, TNA's best era ever. Plus a good triple threat match (rare enough) in Daniels vs Bentley vs Sabin, a cool matwork/tricky Shocker vs Alex Shelley match. One of TNA's best show thus far, easily, which sent a positive vibe for what's to come to.

The Queen Bee shows were the mixed tag-tournament stuff ? If so, I always enjoyed them. The Apache sisters and AKINO kinda ruled in those. And you had the sexiest couple tag-team ever (not that there is much competition) in Minoru Tanaka & Yumi Fukawa delivering the smooth shootstyle stuff. Haven't seen those in eons, but it was quite the novelty at the time, and mostly successful (despite Yuki Ishikawa playing token pervert worker I think). IBUKI I've never seen. Always heard nothing but good things about Yoshida as a trainer, and on a personal level too.

Ah, that moonsault combo... So, you think Ohmukai is not on the level as the others ? Interesting. Back then, she was a big favourite, while Tamada was taking a while lot of shit (although that came later, in 98 she was still solid). As far as no-selling stuff, well, Chama ad Futagami would go on as do that on a regular basis, sadly. I really enjoyed Reggie in ARSION. She's been mostly forgotten about, which is kinda sad honestly. Put her in WWE today and she works circles around that poor Nia Jax thing. She also looks much better, and since they want their monster to be attractive, she would fit right in. Love me some Reggie. Candy was so much fun when she came back in ARSION. For a while. Then she wasn't as much fun. But her first year is pretty ace.

Just like in the G1, Marufuji was God-like in this. I'm not a huge fan of Okada, although I concede he does deliver on big matches, but I have been a huge fan of old-ass Marufuji. His execution was at an all-time best, even with the infamous combo kicks. Great match. MOTYC without a doubt in my book.

Actually, the Great Kojika (I think, or maybe it was Kendo Nagasaki), destroying a small town market while beating on rookies on a special BJPW video tape may take the cake of fucking bizarre and awesome.

IWA Bathhouse Death matches. HeadHunters vs Tarzan Goto & Mr. Gannosuke. In a bathhouse. WIth nekkid women running scared. What else ?

Charles, basically Yoshida was doing her own thing and trained the rookies until the end. But the style of the promotion had basically reverted back as early as 2000. Yumi Fukawa having to retire in the summer of 2000 (I *think*) was the last nail in the coffin, as she was the one carrying the style with Yoshida. When Lioness Asuka came in to "save" the company, ARSION was a mess of styles. It was still fun, but the uniqueness of the first 18 months when they were trying to establish something new was lost. I never got to the point of AtoZ. Yumiko Hotta is one of my least favourite worker ever anywhere, so really I had no intention of watching her fucking up what was left of my former favourite promotion. Oddly enough, you can say the highest point of ARSION hype had nothing to do with Yoshida, as it was the infamous LCO vs HamaKINO bloodbath in late 99. Yep. Feels like in another life to be honest. I have never saw that one. Happened after I dropped off. But I've heard about it many times. I really should watch it eventually.

Well, if you look at the GWE results, I can concede that point to you. I was the one launching the infamous "mainstream US wrestling comeback" talking point. In a way, yes, maybe these are reactionnary times even for pro-wrestling criticism. As far as your first point go, it's interesting because it would mean WWE is considered high-brow in the realm of pro-wrestling in Mexico. ANd the idea that WWE is considered high-brow on any level is kinda… well. But the fact there would be two different social classes following the two different companies is quite intriguing, especially when the "high-brow" one would be the more americanized one while the "low-brow" would be the most traditonnal, truly Mexicon one. Rings a bell, doesn't it ? The anecdote about the Korean woman is classic. Racism. It's everywhere. The fact pro-wrestling never developped in Korea is interesting to me. Especially when a bunch of the guys who revolutionnized puroresu in the 80's were actually Korean. Now that K-pop is going for the Japanese market (right, Dan ?), you'd think maybe a version or puroresu could emerge in Korea and become a tool of "cultural" assault too.

Wrong. Places like TOA, Spider-Twist (yes, I said it), the old Smarckchoice had plenty good and constructive discussions and were great places to discover new things during the first half of the 00's. DVDVR was just one spot. And clearly not the best in term of content and attitude if you ask me. I know, I've been there. PWO has mostly been a great place for discussions, with people being overall a lot less excitable and way more open than before (ok, this thread not being a exemple of that). Peaking in the late 90's ? Nah. Peaking by the first GWE poll ? Maybe. But there have been some great stuff not too long ago. So.

One of my favourite company ever. I was a huge fan as it was happening, until about 2001 when Fukawa had to retire and Lioness came in. Fun to read about it today. I thought about revisiting it one day. ARSION was indeed extremely well versed into marketing the looks of its worker (well, when you have Fukawa and Chama (aka Ohmukai)), probably thanks to Rossy Ogawa, but it was also kinda revolutionnary with Yoshida's new style. It didn't last, as it reverted into a more plain joshi style after about 18 months, although with a lucha influence (thanks to the Apache, Ayako Hamada debuting). It was a super fun company, much better to me than the ever overrated GAEA.

In my arms ! (damn, one great thing of my 90's I had almost forgot about)