El-P

Me too. Because the 15 years old me saw The Genius and understood straight away that it was gay baiting stuff. I dunno, maybe I'm the genius (nope). And then Dan reminded me that he was actually doing the same stuff elsewhere, which I had forgotten. Lanny was doing gimmick *before* WWE. Hulk just went with it. Plus, it's not a matter of "who's to blame here". Just what the gimmick was. I haven't watched old-school wrestling in eons so I don't have any precise instances in mind. I've seen that spot many many times (maybe the late version of the Freebirds actually, not sure). The Rougeaus did the extra hugging thing (yeah, they were brothers, but the "wimpy" thing about it absolutely can be red in that light, again I'm talking about isolated spots, not entire gimmicks). I think the MX were doing it too at points. There's also the most recent spot of a team falling into a 69 position (Beer Money did it in TNA). But this is really not the place to discus this, it has taken the focus away for far too long from the actual topic. You don't think The Genius had homophobic traits to it, mighty fine. But don't call what I said "utter hogwash influenced by Meltzer backwash" (still have no fucking idea why you referenced Meltz btw) when everybody knows it for ever, we made a thread on this board more than 10 years ago about it and it's a topic that's always been addressed in his shoot interviews.

"Build the empire", nothing less. In India. Nah... nevermind. (these people are legit creepy)

Actually my favorite Lanny memories are the shoot interviews. Such a great storyteller, and always came off like a real decent human being overall (yeah, despite the gimmick). No one has mentioned his legendary flexibility yet. How times have changed. I wonder if Coach TK dropped that anecdote in the sleaze thread himself back in the days...

They probably wanted that last big match before inducting him. Or just waited for the right year, whatever that is. But anywoo. Woman inductee : whoever did not need to sign an NDA. For the celebrity wing : MBS Warrior Award : Jerry McDevitt

And it sucks and looks like crap. Visually overcharged commercials is the last thing I want in my fictional world of pro-wrestling (Arena Mexico gets a pass, just because). Nothing will be better than the old target shaped WCW logo on the canvas.

Damn. They could have had a giant fluorescent Black Mountain Dew (or whatever the fuck that brand was) on the ring canvas !

You can't be serious. If you can't see what's homophobic about it, I really can't help you. Or you're being dense on purpose. I am not making an argument for it. It's a fact. Anyone with a functional brain can see it. Plus, Lanny said it himself, as referred in this old thread : On a KC shoot he talks about Hulk Hogan asking him to sell the back scratch "like Jim Barnett" https://411mania.com/wrestling/kayfabe-breaking-kayfabe-w-lanny-poffo/ There's nothing to argue. It's just a fact, and it was really obvious. If it flew over your head at the time, well, whatever, but really, in retrospect. Jeez.

Yeah, I had forgotten about that. Actually, there's a thread on this very board about that very topic, and FLIK (I feel old) actually refers to a shoot interview where Lanny explains how it absolutely was the gimmick. So there. *sigh*

It shouldn't have, but it made my legit laugh.

What the fuck are you even talking about ? What does Meltz has anything to do with it ? The Genius gimmick was clearly homophobic stuff (some part of it at least). I knew it was homophobic when I was 15 years old. One of the first embarrassing memory of watching wrestling I have, actually (alongside the Iraki angle). Homophobic tropes did not need a "gay" gimmick. There was plenty of them, like heels hugging a bit too much (including one crawling on his knees to end up near his partner's crotch) to be "real men" or the way some moved around or were dressed up (mind you, I'm sure no one realized how much Demolition looked like stereotypes straight out of William Friedkin's Cruising. Seriously, they should have been announced "from the backrooms"). The Freebirds in WCW in 91 or so got "f****ts" chants from the crowd because they had garish makeups. On that matter among others, thankfully pro-wrestling fans have changed *a lot*. First, stop talking about "my metric" like it's a thing. You talked about Jim Cornette. Well, Jim Cornette's first gimmick was 100% homophobic shit since it was making fun of Jim Barnett. As far as Shawn Micheals go, he absolutely wasn't doing any "gay" (what passed for "gay" stereotype then) maneurisms. He was dressed like a fucking hair metal singer and moved around like your typical white meat tag team babyface guy. Anywoo. Too bad Lanny was saddled with this, although he did as good a job you could do with it I guess.

Meanwhile : https://news.bloomberglaw.com/esg/wwe-faces-new-suit-over-horrifying-vince-mcmahon-allegations

This. You know how we say that basically the end of show is what taints the entire thing, whether good or bad (typically the WCW PPV's of the Nitro era which had awesome undercard and shitty main event, or the tedious Royal Rumble closed by an awesome angle) ? Well, I loved the show. Loved it. Great stuff after great stuff. And then Samoa Joe wins after a completly insane main event and I'm like "Hum... well, I guess this will prevent Darby from killing himself before the end of the Winter. I just hope it's not going back to W... oh yawn...". So, back to the guy who does a bunch of powerbombs and can't be beat because the Goldy syndrome is still in effect 24 years after the fact (see also, Jade Cargill, although really the latest matches have been really fun again, including this week, because she actually does what Goldy used to do aka do new cool shit in every matches). Samoe Joe has such a great stint (really his best since his prime in the 00's in TNA and ROH), I wish he would have a lenghty and compelling reign before having to drop the belts to Wardlow's WOOOOOrld (YAWN). The only thing I would be really down with is if that ends up with Wardlow putting over Hobbs strong. (can't we switch Wardlow with Gunther ? Please ?) Then again, still another terrific episode. Week after week, just ridiculous streak of great shows, really. Also, you know you've been watching wrestling for far too long and paying attention way too much when the first thing that comes to mind with this show was "Hey, those yellow steps, this is Dayton Ohio where they had the KOTR in 1993". What have I done with my life...

Seriously ? The comical "effeminate" guy who did gymnastics spots... Pretty implicitly homophobic. I'm guessing the stories of Lanny being able to serve himself got around. But yeah, despite this, I always enjoyed the Genius whenever he worked (by the time I started to watch, it was pretty seldom), because I liked moves (yeah, even back then) and Lanny was just such a cool worker. I always wished he was actually pushed a little bit, as opposed to be the manager of the Beverly Brothers and having to sell for Jameson. The WCW contract story was classic shoot interview era hilarity. It's just too bad he never made TV, so many cool random matches he could have had, including against luchadors or Marty Jannetty and such.

I'm just glad they are back. Hopefully it's not a lesser, more WWEiszed version of the show though. Interesting topics, especially Abby & Awesome.

Sucks. He seemed like he was in good health, at least a few years ago. Back in the days of shoot interview craze, he always came off really smart and a better person than most pro-wrestlers of the era. He had some great ones with KC. The Genius gimmick was really embarrassing, even more in retrospect, but Lanny himself was quite a good worker, especially earlier on in Memphis and was a super fun jobber in the 80's. It's the end of the Poffo legacy I guess.

That's interesting. It kinda goes along the idea that @Embrodak mentioned earlier about how the part of the WWE audience that could has rejected Cody have already left. Which is probably why the tribalism is at its worst also (well, that and social medias and echo chambers effects), because the audiences of both company seem to be very much split with a small shared part only. The overlap between audiences of each wrestling companies is one of the most fascinating aspect of the business that I'd love to know more about, including with the smaller companies like IMPACT, MLW, GCW, NWA and the Japanese and Mexican promotions.

Ironically enough, I'm right at the point before BFG 16 when rumors of a sale were going crazy, as they had no money left to even fund the PPV. And remember who debuted at BGF 2016 ? CODY !!! The product has taken a dramatic turn for the better during the summer, after a dire four months, with Lashley as world champion, the feud with Eddie Edwards, the debut of Moose, the Grand Championship gimmick (three rounds of three minutes with judges, interesting enough gimmick when the right guys are working the matches, like Drew and Eddie). But the product was really carried by two main stuff : the Broken Hardy saga, which was insanely absurd and great at every turn (like they took the best aspect of LU and made it their own and pushed it further, with a very self-aware sense of how absurd it was, which kept it fun) and got so over as its own thing that soon enough, the entire Broken family was reunited as babyfaces, leading with the very enjoyable, horror movie inspired feud with Decay, but then again, absolutely playing with its own absurdity (as opposed to the ridiculous pseudo-deep Wyatt LORE) and carried on Decay's side by Rosemary's character. And the other being the Maria Kanellis/Allie storyline which again was 95% angles since Maria isn't really a worker and Allie's character is that she is not a worker either. Yet this is just classic pro-wrestling at its finest, and Allie is just killing the game of a worker playing a non-worker (she's seriously great at it, better than anything I've seen), going from absolutely unbearable at first (that voice) to adorable when she's getting bullied by Kanellis, who herself is terrific in this role, a cowardly fake lady in denial, ready to flip her lid at any moment. This is intertwined with Kanellis long time feud with Gail, who was the Bret Hart of the division, really. You want some character work and great angles, well, this is it. On the other hand, Aron Rex (that's Damian Sandow) coming in as a serious main event level guy was vintage LOLTNA and really came off lame as all hell. Like Corgan did not learn anything from the company's former mistakes. And it's not like he was a super worker either. Can't be taken seriously, brings jackshit in term of in-ring work. Yep, a really dumb idea. It's interesting to see that a bunch of people he was using then he's gonna get back in the NWA later on : Bram, Marti Bell, Aron, Tyrus. There was a real effort done on vignettes and video packages too at this time, which alongside the entire Broken Hardy stuff made the product look like super well produced (despite the monetary issues the promotion was having). Still, at this time, this was basically a soon-to-be-dead promotion on paper. And there comes Anthem...

Vikingo works Spring Break. Against Speedall Mike Bailey. Prepare your GIFs already. This is gonna be ridiculous.

Ok. Against Mike Bailey (who's meeting Vikingo at Janella's Spring Break BTW). My Mania week-end is already done. Won't get better than this. Meanwhile, and although it was not a given Ibushi would even be back form his injury, NJPW still loses him and Jay White in a matter of weeks. That's two main eventers (not to mention Bronson Reed in whom they saw great potential obviously). Hopefully that triggers some interesting pushes to refresh the top of the cards, they will badly need it.

Considering AEW was not around, yeah, no shit. But Drew did the exact same thing that Cody did, he went and work all around the indies for years and got hype for himself (and got better). The big difference is that when he came back, he was not slotted as a main event star immediately. Took him a while. Neither was Bobby Lashley, who followed more or less the same path, he really found himself in IMPACT where he became the total package in term of work/promo (his 2016 champ run is so much fun, he's really shining on every aspect). When he came back it took him like 3 years before he won the big one. Neither came back the way Cody did, with a huge comeback win at Mania, then the Rumble win, then straight to Mania main event the following year. It's not even debatable that his AEW stint is the reason Cody Rhodes came back with the status he did, although of course of Vince had been a petty idiot then, he absolutely could have not capitalized on it. Context is as important as anything. There's a positive exchange of symbolic capital when you leave a company as a star to go to another that has the means to use it (which is part of why TNA was never able to really capitalize on Jeff Hardy for instance, because their own status did not allowed them to, although obviously there were other issues). If Cody comes back to WWE before All In happens, maybe he ends up as a big star after a few years, but it's obvious he comes back and is IC champ at best in their minds. WWE is obsessed with owning the pro-wrestling business as a whole, but this is a perfect example of why it's beneficial even for them that it doesn't happen.

Did not even think about that ! And now I'm gonna be disappointed if that doesn't happen. What have you done ? (that being said, he better SIGN the guy before having him on TV. They screwed themselves already with Dragon Lee, there's no need to do the same mistake twice, especially not with Ibushi, who's on another level altogether)

At Mania you mean ? Come on. They need to make new stars. Then again, the woman does seem kinda in denial about some stuff... As far as the Mania card goes, funny how six months ago the talk about about The Rock and Austin having matches to none happening. Which really, may be much better because it will force them to book matches without relying on old glories, apart from Cena, who apparently has a match with Austin Theory for whatever reason (don't tell me he's the guy supposed to be the next chosen one). So yeah, I don't see any reason why Charlotte would not do the job to Rhea.

I'm there. I wonder if AEW would pick him up. Nobody knows what shape he's in. Obviously if he's even at 80% of what he was before, he's a no brainer. Plus the Omega connection is obvious. If he goes to WWE, I can see him becoming a Nakamura pretty quickly. Having one great introduction, then cruising along for the rest of his career. That is, if he even gets the Nak star treatment to begin with, which is not a given. Of course he could stay in Japan too, but then again, would he end up in NOAH ? They sure need a shot in the arm after Mutoh's retirement, so that could be another nice catch for them. Especially if he's not physically able to do all the acrobatics he used to, the style there would allow him to just work hard hitting matches without having to rely on spectacular spots.

Not to mention he has this illness over his head like a Damocles sword. For sure, I fully expect Reigns to be gone for a while. I also fully expect Reigns to be back for next Mania season at the latest and get back his title at Mania next year. In the mids of this there's the sell of the company happening, who knows what that'll mean for the booking ? Fun question though. If Cody doesn't jump from AEW, does Sami gets the match ? I just can't get past the irony of the former "AEW guy" (remember how Cody was ridiculed by the same WWE audience for not being a star and a midcarder 4 Life at best when he was in AEW ?) being the one defeating Roman in the end. Tells a lot also about how the process of "moving from territory to territory" is absolutely needed to keep things fresh for everybody, the fans and the workers (Cody leaving when he did was the perfect choice for him). There's a reason why Cody is as over as he is, and that's become he came from a strong opposition company as opposed to coming back from IMPACT/ROH (same thing happened with AJ Styles, who came to WWE as a star, less so but still, because he came straight from a then very hot NJPW instead of straight from TNA).

I have not watched the WWE produced Ric Flair documentary (I don't watch bullshit), but apparently it was "Yeah, he used to be the NWA champ, then was in WCW during the Monday Night Wars that WWF won then the really important part if how he had lost his confidence and how Vince and Triple H give him his confidence back and he was part of Evolution and that was very very important for him and then he retired against Shawn Micheals at Wrestlemania".