Matt D

I'm thinking of giving another day before randomizing for this week. Some matches just got exchanged in the last day or so. WingedEagle and Edger are both stepping back on this week? Anyone else on or off?

This was Masahito Kakihara vs. Yoshiaki Fujiwara from 8/14/17. I don't know much about Kakihari (but you should see the guy's tvtropes page; part of me is annoyed that even minor NJPW guys have filled out pages and no one from CMLL has anything but Mistico, but I cannot let that annoy me); he's a former NJPW/UWF guy who had to retire due to a neck injury. My understanding is that this was a reunion show and this was a sparring match for the main. He gives Fujiwara everything and I'm hugely sympathetic. It actually takes a certain level of skill to walk that tightrope. He sells emotively for him, has the crowd behind him the whole time and never comes off as a loser or a quitter or someone who was giving his opponent everything. It's probably exactly what I'd do if I was him, had a bad neck, and wanted to honor Fujiwara. There is a strong sense of reverence all around, even as he's letting Fujiwara do comedy fake smoking spots. I half wonder if they couldn't have given him one moment, one tap, one escape, one something, but that probably would have been worse than nothing at all. There was an overall effect here that would have been shattered. As for the mechanics, it was fun to see Fujiwara escape. I especially loved the small stuff, when he'd just focus on the tiniest bodypart as opposed to big sweeping counters. This was fun. shodate, have you seen the recently unearthed NJPW fancam of a very different fujiwara sparring session?

It feels a little bit win-win to me. Either Lashley gets over like they want and is a legit main event star for the next few years or we get a Batista situation where his presence actually makes the fans get more behind Braun out of resentment (at which point you can turn Lashley heel anyway)

It's been ages since I've seen this but I'm watching again now. It was much more even in the first half than I remembered. What I really love is how Larry goes for what works early on a second time (the hip toss, the shoulder block) and when they get reversed, that's when he really starts to get frustrated. When you factor in the differences in holds (Larry can't keep a hold on but Bruno just lets him out, including from the bear hug), and how the final payoff isn't just Larry blindsiding Bruno, but him doing it as Bruno holds the ropes open for him, you really do get one of the best matches-as-angles in wrestling history. Also, Vince ending the show looking like he's about to puke from nervousness is an amazing touch.

Pete and I are heartbroken.

Who do you rate?

Will catch this tomorrow. In the meantime, here's one back for you if you have time, in three parts:

It is, I think, kind of a common problem with a certain kind of young wrestler. Stringing move after move together with a kind of "Look at me! Look how many moves I know!" type of attitude rather than trying to tell any kind of coherent story or develop dramatic tension or whatever. It not just jumpy flippy guys who are spot monkeys. Hopefully they'll grow out of it eventually. One of my favorite talking points over the years is how wrestling is symbolic and everything a wrestler chooses to do, be it matwork, a garbage spot, a high spot, a strike, or even just playing to the crowd, is just a tool, and it's all about how the tools are used (and to a lesser degree how they're executed). The tools, in and of themselves, are not necessarily better or worse, though they may lean more towards your preference or may signify a trend of specific-tools-being-used-better-than-others-historically. I feel like it's never gotten all that much traction.

The bigger question is "Who was a better WWE TV Champion: Matt Hardy or Christian?"

I came in here because I'm going to watch all the Casas in Monterrey in 00-01 and I come right smack into OJ making comments. He definitely wasn't the focus of this match. There were some fun moments with Bucanero (including Bucanero slapping on the Scorpion as a FU) but not enough to really chew on. He was mostly on the outside for the first chunk of the match. That said, I don't know if I agree. I thought the stuff he did hyping the crowd up for Porky's big corner charge actually added a lot (pretty much the only build/payoff in the whole match) and no one could do that quite like Casas. Plus he locked in an Anaconda Vice to help distract the refs for the finish, which I've never seen him do before (he probably has but I've never seen it; there's one thing every match). I actually really enjoyed the low blow sequence on Shocker (who was exceptional at stooging here, even if we didn't get enough of it). I get that I'm his target audience and the things I enjoy aren't the same as the things that OJ enjoy, but Casas still looked great to me here. Maybe not top 10 in Mexico for the year great, but he still stood out, even in a match where he wasn't at all the focus. Half speed Casas is still one of the best wrestlers ever. I'm not 100% sure what the focus was. The camerawork was a little crazy to begin but everything came into focus with bloody Niebla (he and Scorpio making each other bleed was the heart of the match). The rudo beatdown was fine to start. The tecnico comeback had a pretty dull transition. There's no build and payoff here but there is enough fun stuff. Porky seemed far less mobile than he'd be ten years later which was weird. So it was your mix of bloody brawling and straight out comedy. My favorite part was Zumbido (who is the perfect level of scummy for this setting) being knocked into the crowd and some old lady standing up to shove him. I wouldn't be surprised if there wasn't more coherence than I'm giving this credit for, as I watched it out of context, but I didn't see it.

Will catch it on the commute tomorrow. Looking forward to it even though I'm wishing it was for less sad reasons.

Not to sugarcoat the current situation but I tend to like 76-78 Brody, before the face turn.

Ive never actually read the Moolah bio. Its years before theyre going to toss that on the website.

I like his rudo stuff more than I like Santo's rudo stuff generally, but I know I'm a crazy outlier there.

Fear. He's become the Dennis Miller of elite 1980s wrestling commentary.

I don't entirely think traditional metrics for draw really matter all that much in the post-attitude era. Turning around trends probably matters to a degree. Merch sales matter to a degree. I'm not sure what matters though. Youtube hits? Regardless Post 2002 Bigger Draw DNE Bigger Star. I didn't entirely find Dylan's argument for Cena as GWWE #1 compelling, for instance, in that he was the main guy for so long and business is doing well now on relative means, in part because there was no boom period under Cena. They skipped the Boom. Maybe that was because Benoit. Maybe that was because WWE not pushing stars in ways they did in the past. Maybe it was because MMA took the boom instead, but while there was stabilization under Cena, there was no boom like there was with Hogan and Austin.

Im not convinced you can compare ratings or buyrates well between even 09 and 13. There was a tv and streaming revolution between those years.

I viewed this match as Wagner throwing the entire history of lucha libre at Kanemoto, escalating all the way to the Splash Mountain, and Kanemoto showing the supremacy of Japanese heart and heroism. Wagner, more than anyone else, benefits from who he would become, because you look closely for the extra bits of swagger that he would show five or six years later, and if you look closely enough, you do see it. The majority of the match is a massive rudo beatdown with Wagner hitting him with everything his country would have to offer. I though the initial transition was uninteresting and some of the cutoffs were as well, but that the hope spot set ups and comeback did get more interesting in the stretch. The match is extremely effective for what it was meant to be (so long as I'm reading it right) and you can tell that from the crowd's reaction. It's hard to fault something for what it is in this case, especially given the setting. There were certain structural things I liked, such as the fight for the initial crucifix bomb or teasing the tiger suplex earlier to pay it off at the end. Honestly, this felt like the wrestling version of a war between Mexico and Japan, where Mexico launched every weapon it had and Japan persevered and won the day. It felt a little like what Inoki always wanted from his big jingoistic matches, but Kanemoto was selfish and self-assured enough to make it work through selling and fighting from underneath.

This is kind of interesting if only because of how much bigger wrestling was in, let's say, 2000-2001 than in 2014. Does one of the most over, relatively, people in the history of the company in 2014, get trumped by an extremely over midcarder in 2001. Jeff was more of a commodity in 2002 than 2001 but I think by then, it's too late and wrestling was cooling off. If Jeff had peaked as a mid-carder in 99, I think he'd have a real argument against 2014 anyone, because wrestling matters so much less in 2014. WWE's just gotten better at squeezing more out of less, but it was much more of a national phenomenon and general part of the culture when Jeff was coming up. Peak main eventer vs peak main eventer (the main question here) isn't an argument. Bryan destroys Jeff. Jeff's a great babyface with a real connection to the crowd. Bryan is a once in a generation, transcendent figure. It's just he was a transcendent figure when wrestling doesn't really matter. Bryan vs a secondary major babyface of 1999 would be more interesting, I think. Bryan vs Foley maybe.

I'd like to mention that the best MSG sellout statistic lying was from Frank Bonnema who repeatedly said that Stan Stasiak broke records and sold it out for a decade as a main eventer or something.

We live in awesome times and in a great community. I'm switching between unearthed 80s and 90s Japanese handhelds, 00-01 Monterrey lucha with Negro Casas, and on my queue are Kanemoto/Wagner, a Fujiwara match that shodate suggested, the Casas/Cavernario tag title challenge from last week, and whatever the heck Daniel Bryan is going to do this tuesday night in a TV match.

T-Bone Tazplex.

Oh, don't worry about Parv. He's just become a mustache-twirling, reactionary, arch-conservative villain in his middle age.

Week 16 Winged Eagle is out for another week. Laz is out for a bit. Rah is out for a bit. joeg's missed a couple of weeks, so he's off until he says otherwise. Edger is taking a week off. We've still got 10 people. oldbirds HeadCheese shodate jetlag DR Ackerman Tim Evans AstroBoy Nintendo Logic dawho5 Richeyedwards And I'm #11 this week. If joe pops back, I'll pair with him; otherwise I'm off. Enjoy.

1. I kind of feel like I took this one for the team. 2. That said, I'm glad HC is here because, as I said before, we're all specialists and this is a viable bit of pro wrestling. 3. Part of me wishes shodate saw this instead. That idea cracked me up more than anything in the match. 4. Wrestling is symbolic. This is a viable bit. It draws. It produces something that is a form of entertainment. It's a low form, certainly, but there are bits that can transfer over. Pro wrestling analysis is so underdeveloped that it feels novel to say that. NWA guy in blue who drink the bad chinese beer was selling his stomach in a way that some other heel might have sold a cast injury or in a comedy match, his lost hair by having a mask over it. There were miscommunication spots. There were the faces (presuming they're faces in this situation) capitalizing and humiliating the heel. Some of this stuff works in 1984 Mid South as well as it works here in 2017 DDT. It's just the details that are different. So long as the fans buy into the reality presented to them, that really doesn't matter. I mean there are people out there who looked at Dumb and Dumber and wrote academic papers on it, I'm sure. I care about commitment because it's an expression of selling, in as you're expressing to the crowd that what is currently happening has weight and value and meaning. Everyone in this match was committed. I don't have a lot of use for Danshoku Dino's act, but I didn't mind the other guys in there. Guy-in-blue-with-stomach-problems coming back out with the TP was sort of the symbolic equivalent of the beat up tecnico who had his masked ripped off coming back out to save his partners in a trios with a new mask. It all sort of fits together. It's just I think I saw that more than they did, and they didn't go far enough in committing to not just the joke but the match. I actually think it's doable and I think they could have done it if they were just a little more self aware. It's like how someone can work hard and work smart at once. I'm not convinced someone can't work high absurdist and smart at the same time. It's all just looping together spots and moments. Also the singing before the match really wasn't over. That bugged me. If you do something for that long, make sure it's over. I'm spinning the wheel tonight. Anyone else who needs a week off or wants to jump in, lemme know.