Comments that don't warrant a thread 2010-2011

[Loss]

Part 2!

[Jingus]

On another board, I was talking with a kid who just started training at the ROH school. Apparently on the very first day, they sat all the new students down and basically ordered them not to post on wrestling forums anymore. The kid was scared enough that he didn't go into detail, so I don't know if they meant it like "the internet is dumb and everyone on the internet is wrong", or just a more prosaic "don't expose what goes on in our training class". But I certainly have heard plenty of older guys and even lots of younger guys whine about those stupid smarks on the stupid internet.

 

It's a peculiarly dismissive attitude, especially since it lumps all Smart Marks together in one stereotype. To listen to some of these guys, you'd think that every single one of us was not only the fabled virgin living in their parents' basement, but that every smark has identical thoughts on wrestling. Even one brief moment of logical thought can tell you that's not possible, but I've heard far too many angry rants from guys who clearly don't actually surf the net much about Those People and their apparently homogenous hive-mind opinions. Which is... well, c'mon. Just look at the different writing styles and biases of the original Death Valley Driver crew; and that's a bunch of guys whose opinions are much closer to each other than you'll find in some places. Like, Scott Keith and Chris Coey were both wrestling reviewers, but aside from that, their only similarity was that they were both English-speaking white dudes.

 

But back to the trainee kid. I could tell he was legitimately afraid, that he might be found out and then punished or kicked out of training or something. Which is a goddamn ridiculous thing to do to your students. Are actors forbidden to talk about acting on the internet? Of course not. Are athletes condemned if they speak their mind on their particular sport? Hell no. But wrestling still obsessively clings to the final shreds of the carny kayfabe, even in the most internet-friendly promotion on the freaking planet. It's an astounding bit of hypocracy to think that this is the same company which produced several million shoot interviews, but they sternly warn the young boys Don't Expose The Business.

[MikeCampbell]

People within wrestling always seem to think that people not involved don't know shit about shit when it comes to wrestling. I saw something like that on my local indy fed's board. One of the wrestlers, who didn't even have one match under his belt at the time, went off on another poster with that point. He basically told him that if he really knew anything then he'd be involved in wrestling and not buying tickets and DVDs.

[Jingus]

The old "you don't know shit if you haven't been in the ring" attitude is fucking retarded. And I say that because I have been in the ring. Being involved does tend to change your outlook on a whole lot of things, but it doesn't make anyone else more stupid than you just because you've taken some bumps and they haven't. I've met plenty of wrestlers who were dumber than a bag of rocks, yet were still convinced that they were goddamn Eddie Graham when it came to the psychology of the business.

 

And it's not even the avocational weekend warriors who firmly believe they know it all. I still vividly recall one night when Koko B. Ware cornered me and some other local guys in the back, and proceeded to give an us incredibly long-winded Remedial Psychology lecture. "And when you beat on that babyface, you gotta really beat 'em down good, so the people get mad at ya!" and other first-day-of-class shit like that. I was managing a team called the Backwoods Brawlers, and they were every bit as bright and talented as their name suggests, but even those guys were giving each other weird looks like "uh, yeah, we know this stuff already".

 

But you know what the worst part is? I've met guys who didn't know this stuff. I still remember one Nashville kid named Petey, who was physically competent in a skinny-indy-kid sort of way, but had absolutely no clue when it came to laying out a match. He was one of those guys who stole moves he saw in the X Division which were stolen from the superindies which were stolen from Japan. And he actually once brought some wrestling action figures into the locker room and played with them under the bewildered stare of the older guys. More than once after his match, during intermission I had to pull him aside and politely but firmly offer a few specific pieces of advice. "Petey, your punches make the Rock look like Dick Murdock, just throw forearms until you figure out how to work a good punch." (I didn't actually say that part, cuz I just know he would've said "Dick who?") Me, the fucking announcer doing this, because none of the local workers wanted to waste their time on him. Well, Petey kept sucking and never became a great wrestler. But he did become an international male supermodel and ended up as Lindsay Lohan's boyfriend. So, uh, yeah I really don't know where I was going with that story, it sure as hell didn't end with a fitting moral.

[Jingus]

He basically told him that if he really knew anything then he'd be involved in wrestling and not buying tickets and DVDs.

I don't even have to say anything about the lunacy of a guy who's never wrestled burying another guy because he's never wrestled, that speaks for itself. However, that quoted part bugs me. Look, most people can't be a wrestler, or at least not a good one. Even the fat guys doing comedy gimmicks tend to have athletic backgrounds. Most people's bodies aren't physically capable of standing up to that level of abuse. Take me for example. I'm a pudgy dude with bad cardio, bad back, bad ankles, and all that on top of a mild case of Cerebral fucking Palsy. It's a goddamn miracle that I got so far in the ring as I did, having a few comic-relief tag matches or wrestling girls or whatever other sideshow bullshit. I never had the slightest chance of being a serious wrestler, and I think the majority of civilians out there have their own health issues which would keep them from getting in the ring even if they'd wanted to. So the "if they knew anything about wrestling, they'd lace up the boots" mindset is one I've got good practical reason to be violently opposed to.

[rovert]

Could it just/partly just be Delirious protecting his gimmick or even Delirious & Haze protecting their relationship?

 

Elsewhere I see Bryan and Regal wrestled in Cardiff, Wales last night.

 

Brief clip:

[sek69]

I remember I tried posting on the board at the official NWA site (where a lot of the posters were wrestlers and local promoters) and it was 100% kayfabe. At first I thought it was some weird e-fed role playing stuff and was all "OK, we're really not all pretending this is like 1980s PWI: The Forum are we?" and I got shouted down with the quickness.

 

Also re: ROH school's no internet policy, maybe they don't want any asshole trainer stories coming out? I haven't heard anything bad about their school but pretty much every wrestling school ever has tales of assholery and douchebagginess.

[sek69]

Also I think another example of everyone aping WWE (intentionally or not) is how they react to the internet. Surely guys in ROH would be more aware of the internet than say, Vince or HHH, but they end up hating the internet because they think that's what they'll need to do to be on RAW one day. I would imagine if a guy posted a lot on a message board and somehow got signed by WWE he would get buried fast if word got out he posts on the internet.

[Wahoos Leg]

To be fair, considering that the live crowd at every ROH show I have been to -- as a whole, mind you -- is the equivalent of the Trekkies of wrestling fans, if that's who the company is thinking of when they're talking about "the Internet" I can see that.

 

Or, as previous poster said, could be something as simple as keeping some semblance of kayfabe for Delirious and Haze

[Bix]

Who DOESN'T know they're together? I can't see it being that.

[rovert]

Who DOESN'T know they're together? I can't see it being that.

More talking about the ins and outs domestic stuff really.

[Jingus]

Yeah, Delirious and Daisy being a couple is hardly some deep dark secret. Practically everyone already knows.

 

On the other hand, Delirious does seem like a stickler for kayfabe when it comes to his own gimmick. You never see him making public appearances out of character. Even when he did a shoot interview, he was still wearing the mask and doing the voice. When I think about it, actually, there are a whole bunch of masked Americans who are very closemouthed when it comes to their real selves. PWG and Chikara are both full of dudes in masks, who take almost Lucha-like care to maintain that mysterious distance between themselves and the audience.

[sek69]

I wonder if anyone ever pointed out that's one of the reasons it's hard to defend being a wrestling fan with the "it's fake like every other show on TV" logic. Only wrestlers try to walk around like their gimmicks are real. It's one thing for someone like Stone Cold to maintain the aura that he's a beer drinking redneck. It's borderline retarded for Delirious to keep kayfabe on whatever the hell his gimmick is supposed to be.

[Marty]

People within wrestling always seem to think that people not involved don't know shit about shit when it comes to wrestling. I saw something like that on my local indy fed's board. One of the wrestlers, who didn't even have one match under his belt at the time, went off on another poster with that point. He basically told him that if he really knew anything then he'd be involved in wrestling and not buying tickets and DVDs.

This isn't limited to just wrestling, I'm afraid. Here in Canada, there was an interview with a CFL defensive coordinator who's been heavily criticized by both media and fans. In his interview, he basically wrote off all his critics as being people who have never coached in their life, so they don't know what they were talking about. Similar to the "wrestler who didn't even have a match", he hit a low point in his coaching career just a couple years ago, when he was coaching Junior A ball or something like that. So you get a lot of people like that in probably many industries.

[rovert]

Teachers/Lecturers still fight against the Rate My... sites too.

[Jingus]

Yeah, and filmmakers hate movie critics and dismiss them as nothing but a bunch of bitter old farts who are jealous because they couldn't become filmmakers themselves. It's certainly not limited to just wrestling. But wrestling seems to proudly scream that attitude from the rooftops in a much more aggressive fashion than practically any other vocation. I'd say the vast majority of wrestlers I've ever met have a smug and condescending attitude towards the internet and smarks in general, and there's a large minority who are openly hostile towards the whole scene in a really angry manner.

 

Of course, plenty of wrestlers just seem to hate all the fans in general. Like, take for example any time a wrestler has leaped into the crowd and expected all the marks to get out of his way. How fucking retarded is that? You could be flying at some immobile person who can't move in time. I've heard plenty of anecdotes where something bad happened in that kind of situation, and way too many wrestlers (not involved in the incident) said something to the effect of "well the fan should've moved, it was all their fault". It's amazing that wrestling has stayed in its little bubble for so long and not been hit with many more lawsuits than it has, because there have been plenty of openings where a single unfavorable court decision could have had a serious negative effect on the entire industry.

[Strummer]

But you know what the worst part is? I've met guys who didn't know this stuff. I still remember one Nashville kid named Petey, who was physically competent in a skinny-indy-kid sort of way, but had absolutely no clue when it came to laying out a match. He was one of those guys who stole moves he saw in the X Division which were stolen from the superindies which were stolen from Japan. And he actually once brought some wrestling action figures into the locker room and played with them under the bewildered stare of the older guys. More than once after his match, during intermission I had to pull him aside and politely but firmly offer a few specific pieces of advice. "Petey, your punches make the Rock look like Dick Murdock, just throw forearms until you figure out how to work a good punch." (I didn't actually say that part, cuz I just know he would've said "Dick who?") Me, the fucking announcer doing this, because none of the local workers wanted to waste their time on him. Well, Petey kept sucking and never became a great wrestler. But he did become an international male supermodel and ended up as Lindsay Lohan's boyfriend. So, uh, yeah I really don't know where I was going with that story, it sure as hell didn't end with a fitting moral.

a quick search would put Petey as http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Calum_Best

 

or not. Lindsay has probably dated more than one international male supermodel

 

edit: wrong I guess. It was probably this guy: http://www.nydailynews.com/gossip/2009/12/..._adam_senn.html

[rovert]

Calum Best was an international super model for like 15 minutes until his hairline QUICKLY caught up with him

[Jingus]

Nope, neither one of those. (Man, for a reputed lesbian, Lindsay sure does burn through a lot of male models.) No, Petey was the young guy in the later sets of nude pictures that Lindsay did for whatever hipster magazines.

 

Here, this is him (NSFW):

http://vinylandvodka.com/2009/12/lindsay-l...-muse-magazine/

 

I find it fitting that even in a fashion shoot, the passed-out wrestler ends up with someone drawing on him with a magic marker. Also, as you look at those photographs, just keep in mind that this is a kid who was such a flippy-floppy X Division mark that he bought a pair of AJ Styles's tights off Ebay and wore them in his second match, despite the fact that they barely fit him. And he used a Buff Blockbuster for a finish.

 

Wrestling, man. It brings all kinds of people out of the woodwork.

[Strummer]

man Lindsay looks like Michelle Pfeiffer in Married to the Mob in those pics

 

a Jaundice, emaciated 2010 Michelle Pfeiffer mind you

[rovert]

Kane apparently torn a pic on a botched chokeslam at a house show, I wonder that happens....

[Log]

But back to the trainee kid. I could tell he was legitimately afraid, that he might be found out and then punished or kicked out of training or something. Which is a goddamn ridiculous thing to do to your students. Are actors forbidden to talk about acting on the internet? Of course not. Are athletes condemned if they speak their mind on their particular sport? Hell no. But wrestling still obsessively clings to the final shreds of the carny kayfabe, even in the most internet-friendly promotion on the freaking planet. It's an astounding bit of hypocracy to think that this is the same company which produced several million shoot interviews, but they sternly warn the young boys Don't Expose The Business.

I'd imagine that if one of the actors from Lost had gone around posting things about the ending on message boards, the people who write the show and ABC would've been none to happy. In fact, a lot of times shows like that don't even let the actors see the finished script until it's time to shoot. There have even been cases in tv and movies where directors have shot multiple endings so that the actors and crew wouldn't know which one is real.

 

Also, there have been many, many athletes fined for tweeting or speaking out against their particular league or officials. Coaches have been hit, too.

 

I get what you're saying about ROH. In particular, how hypocritical it is that they produce shoot interviews. I can see them not wanting their trainees blabbing about their training on message boards, though. I doubt that my boss would want me writing online what goes on day-to-day at work.

[Jingus]

I'd imagine that if one of the actors from Lost had gone around posting things about the ending on message boards, the people who write the show and ABC would've been none to happy.

That's completely different from what we're talking about. That would be more like a wrestler stooging off what the finish of a PPV main event is going to be, and of course that's something which almost never happens. To be comparable, there would have to be some kind of "if we find out you're posting on message boards about anything related to television shows, then you're fired" attitude for it to match the hostility which wrestling shows towards the idea of "exposing" a business which has already been overexposed for years and years now.

 

Also, there have been many, many athletes fined for tweeting or speaking out against their particular league or officials. Coaches have been hit, too.

That's a better example, but I would first ask exactly what they were saying. Was it "that faggot referee made a bad call and now I'mma kill his children!", or was it people being punished for making logical points in a reasonable fashion?

 

I doubt that my boss would want me writing online what goes on day-to-day at work.

I know, but a lot of that is pretty selfishly motivated. Why would they want you to keep quiet? Because something you say might hurt them, obviously. Now, it would be one thing if you were leaking security information or something like that. "By the way, the alarm always has a ten-minute window when it turns off at midnight, and the back door never completely locks all the way" or something like that. Or if you're working with some kind of specific proprietary information, like plot twists on a show which haven't aired yet or the secret processes behind how a company does its stuff.

 

But aside from cases like that, most of the "don't tell anyone or else!" cases seem to boil down to the employer doing some stupid shit and not wanting anyone else to find out about it. Like, I'm sure Walmart isn't happy about all those sites where employees share their stories about what an unethical company it is. In situations like that, I've got zero sympathy for the company. Legitimate whistleblowers aren't celebrated and protected nearly enough in our society.

 

And it's especially silly when you consider that these ROH kids are hardly some full-time employees making a living. They're the ones paying, exchanging their goods (cash) in exchange for a service (wrestling training). Yet the seller is insisting that the buyer is not only forbidden to discuss their transaction in any detail, but also isn't allowed to speak out about any other subjects in that entire industry. That's weird. Especially since I'm assuming that the vast majority of trainees will never be signed to work ROH's main shows anyway.

[MikeCampbell]

Now, it would be one thing if you were leaking security information or something like that. "By the way, the alarm always has a ten-minute window when it turns off at midnight, and the back door never completely locks all the way" or something like that.

The quoted part is totally on the money, Jingus, but the fact is that those aren't really the reasons why most companies don't want employees posting shit online. It's more aimed to prevent me going onto my facebook and saying "I fucking hate working at the McDonalds on Erie Blvd in Syracuse. My managers name is John Smith and he's a douchebag"

 

There was a story in the news a month or two ago when a guy went on his twitter and commented how a local grocery store chain wasn't at good as its competitor. A corporate rep saw the post and went off her rocker and tried to contact the person's employer and get them in trouble. The guy showed the whole thing to his SU professor who called the media and bang! Three days straight on the local news about the awful grocery store who can't take criticism.

[Guest kowking]

TNAnonymous is backpedaling, saying he has a Monday meeting with Dixie and he might stay on if they agree to make changes!

 

Total bull.