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WWF Ongoing Thread


Kronos

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If you're just going through every house show, it's no big deal.

 

With Steamer-Savage, you're trying to figure out differences in similar matches to determine recommendations. They can be small differences... hell, the Rockers-Brainbusters house show series is made up of fairly slim differences between their matches.

 

With Sharpe-Houston, you can sort of turn your brain off to two things:

 

* was it good or not?

* if it was good, is it good enough to recommend?

 

If it doesn't reach a "yes" on the second, there is no real reason to try to figure out how it compares with other Sharpe-Houston matches... unless that's something that really interests someone in sifting through the WWF in the 80s.

 

Fan #1: "What's the best Conquistadors vs Power & Roma match?"

Fan #2: "Don't know. None of them really grabbed me enough to give them that much thought."

 

:)

 

John

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10/26/85 Bruno Sammartino/Paul Orndorff vs Roddy Piper/Bob Orton Jr. (7:28)

Taped: The Spectrum, Philadelphia, PA

Aired: 10/26/85 PRISM Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....=9127⎧

 

I like this. It would be a great Nitro match.

 

06/14/86 Randy Savage & Adrian Adonis vs Tito Santana & Bruno Sammartino (9:42)

Taped: Madison Square Garden, New York

From: 06/14/86 MSG Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....1145⮉

 

Gorilla moment of the match:

 

"This match got under way some ten minutes ago."

-Gorilla, 2:42 into the match

 

Jackass.

But I digress. ;)

 

Looks like my complaints were that it was a total face domination and that the finish didn't put enough hate on the table to warrant the cage match follow up. My positives were that it was all action, the heels sold their asses off, the fans ate it up, and Bruno being in there made it something out of an ordinary match. That's a pretty decent "good for what it was" set of comments.

 

07/12/86 Randy Savage & Adrian Adonis vs Tito Santana & Bruno Sammartino (9:52)

Taped: Madison Square Garden, New York

From: 07/12/86 MSG Network

http://www.otherarena.com/phpbb/viewtopic....1147⮋

 

This is a pretty good spectacle. It's a clusterfuck and a trainwreck... except in a controlled, good way.

Yeah, I'm being complimentary there. I liked this, and thought it was a very fitting finish to the Tito-Savage feud given Tito wasn't getting the belt back.

 

John

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In retrospect, I should have only watched the MSG Hogan/Boss Man matches or the Boston matches, but I watched the matches out of order and by the time I clicked it was too late. I do think it was a particular problem with the Hogan/Boss Man feud, however, as I loved every single match in the next feud:

 

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race

 

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, Boston 5/2/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, Philadelphia 5/9/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, Toronto 5/17/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, MSG 5/18/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, Texas Death Match, Boston 6/6/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, Texas Death Match, MSG 6/14/87

Hulk Hogan vs. King Harley Race, SNME 3/7/88

 

These matches were tremendous. I remember This Is Workrate on Smarkschoice was always pimping these, but I really had no idea that Race produced at this level during his WWF run. I also labeled myself a Hogan skeptic in a recent thread, but these 10 minute brawls he had with workers like Orndorff and Race were outstanding. I had no idea Hogan bladed so often on houseshows. I think he bled in all of these bar the nationally televised version. The May matches are essentially the same with the same finish, same post-match beatdown and same challenge for a Texas Death Match where Hogan would quit wrestling if he lost, but Race was so good in each of them that it didn't bother me that the same spots were being repeated. My image of Harley in the WWF was that he was out of place and broken down, but either he saw this as his last big payday or I've been watching the wrong matches because he was busted his ass in these matches. Some of the diving headbutt spots, especially the ones on the outside, were insane. I couldn't really choose one match over the other out of the May matches, but I did think the finish looked better in the Boston, Philly and Toronto matches rather than the MSG match. The MSG Texas Death Match was my favourite of all the bouts. If you ignore the fact that it's not really a Texas Death Match as such and just view it as a no-DQ brawl, it's such an awesome grudge match. And this time round I even liked their SNME match, which was a truncated version of their May '87 bouts but with plenty of solid brawling, including a cool table spot. I had no idea there were so many good WWF matches I'd never seen.

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Koko/Race sounds like a blast. I had no idea it ever happened. I'll have to track that down for sure.

 

Watched the Hogan/Funk series at the weekend there and thought it was pretty good. I liked the Philly and Toronto matches more than the SNME blowoff, but the SNME match was good as well (felt a little disjointed at points, though. Like they were trying to cram in TOO many of the better spots they rolled out together in the house show matches). After I finished watching it I wanted to give the Hogan/Race series a look again (pretty sure I've only seen the Texas Death Match), so I'll definitely do that soon.

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Race-Hogan matches were a blast.

 

Hogan-Funk weren't bad either, but you kind of wish they'd been given the attention by the company as Hogan-Race (and it's not like Hogan-Race was as pushed as Hogan-Savage, Hogan-Orndorff and Hogan-Kamala).

 

John

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Randy Savage vs. Harley Race, Philadelphia 9/18/87

Randy Savage vs. Paul Orndorff, Philadelphia 6/28/86

Harley Race vs. Koko B Ware, Toronto 9/20/87

 

These were disappointing. They seemed to highlight the difference between having a beef and working a regular match. Perhaps it's only natural, but the regular matches aren't anywhere near as exciting or interesting as the heated brawls. The 20 minute draw between Koko and Race was a chore. Even Bobby ran out of jokes to make about Frankie and the commentary began to drag.

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk, Philadelphia 12/7/85

Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk, Toronto 12/15/85

Hulk Hogan vs. Terry Funk, SNME 1/4/86

 

These were good matches but they could have been better. Terry worked a looser style than Race and it seemed like there was less substance to this series. That's not to say the matches aren't fun, however. My favourite part was when Funk threatened a guy in the crowd in Philly with the branding iron and got the double finger. Philly all the way.

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Someone has a bunch of WWF MSG full shows up. I'm watching 1984 in order starting with July. Watching the September show now and a couple random thoughts.

 

-Sal Bellomo is the perfect style of JTTS. Clearly a notch below the stars but credible enough to have 10 minute matches, do counter-wrestling, have some offense. I hate seeing guys in this era who lose in two minutes to the first big move the star hits.

 

-The worst recipients of Gorilla Monsoon's commentating are the referees.

 

-Every time I see Chief Jay Strongbow I picture Howard Finkel starting off, "now jobbing..."

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I haven't seen the HHH and the Radicals vs. The Rock, Mick Foley, Rikishi and Too Cool since it originally aired. I remember really enjoying the match. Has it held up?

I just watched it. The ending is a mess. But the first 10 min or so are pure insane sprinty joy. Attitude Era crowds were amazing when they weren't being dickish. Like I mentioned in my Unforgiven 99 comments, Vince should be so lucky to have a crowd this WhiteHot today. Even Dean Malenko can't kill them, though he tries pretty damn hard..

There's not a lot of structure, unless you want to say DX and Friends work Heel in Peril for 7 or so minutes until Haitch cleans house. It's really a setup to further the Cactus Hunter feud going into NWO, but it's all wicked fun. I never get tired of watching Too Cool and Rikishi, and neither does this crowd.

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Paul Orndorff vs. Sgt. Slaughter, 6/2/84

 

This was pretty disappointing. I liked the entrances and the early stalling was okay, but everything after that was generic for these two.

 

Paul Orndorff vs. Hulk Hogan, MSG 2/20/84

Paul Orndorff vs. Hulk Hogan, Cap Centre 7/28/84

Paul Orndorff vs. Hulk Hogan, Philadelphia 4/27/85

 

There were some good spots in these early Hogan/Orndorff matches but it seemed like both guys were still finding their way and hadn't got their formula down pat. A lot of dead air for such short matches. Another batch of matches I found myself multi-tasking during.

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http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-noOiX4t-ps

 

Jim Brunzell vs "Mr. Perfect" Curt Hennig

9/11/88

 

Super early Perfect match in WWF and really, if you're going to debut the guy, why not do it against a guy like Brunzell. This is sort of like an AWA match on fast forward in some points, dumbed down in others, and a bit more like comfort food in even others. Brunzell wins the matwork early on. He tries to set up the figure four. Hennig does a king of the mountain segment, confusing Superstar. There's this awesome jump up after a sunset flip, and Hennig has some fast and brutal strikes. They keep going back to the chinlock, but they use it to build to hope spots that Hennig cheats to get back on top. they never just sit in it for long. There's a segment with backwork which Brunzell sells pretty well. The real comeback begins when Brunzell decides to cheat too. Hennig takes a super bump over the top and goes back to selling the leg. And even that gets cut off. Really great comeback shot and then sleeper by hennig.

 

Finish kind of comes out of nowhere, but you can sort of believe it as a reversal off of a dropkick attempt.

 

It's a match well worth watching though I'm sure it's not as high end as it could be. Hennig always seems lacking on top when he's a heel (at least in WWF).

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In retrospect I really didn't dislike Curt's offense THAT much in the match. It seemed a bit scattered but it all looked good.

 

Bret Hart VS Jim Brunzell 05.04.1986 MLG Toronto

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=17NRltsky-A

 

This is a couple of years earlier and Brunzell has a bit more zing. Nice back and forth early on with some tit for tat stuff before Brunzell starts on the leg. I'm not going to say a ton about this but I will say that Brunzell had the single most important trait for a 80s WWF wrestler: he was really good at wrestling out of a chinlock. Good at timing his hope spots, good at getting yanked back down and good at getting out. Here, the atomic drop where Bret hung on was particularly good. I also really liked the way Bret kicked his foot onto the rope after the dropkick late in the match. Cheap finish but what are you going to do.

 

You want to know a sign that Brunzell was pretty damn good? I don't think Monsoon criticized him once.

 

Worth watching. There's at least one other match between the two I'll try to catch later.

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Hulk Hogan vs. One Man Gang, Philadelphia 12/5/87

 

This was all right, but something tells me there wasn't a hidden gem Hogan/OMG brawl.

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage

 

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Philadelphia 9/28/85

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Toronto 10/13/85

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, MSG 12/30/85

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, MSG 1/27/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, lumberjack match, MSG 2/17/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Detroit 4/26/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Boston 5/24/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Boston 6/27/86

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Rochester, NY 6/3/87

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Toronto 4/23/89

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, MSG 4/24/89

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Boston 6/3/89

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Fresno 8/9/89

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, London 10/10/89

Hulk Hogan vs. Macho Man Randy Savage, Paris 10/13/89

 

I was kind of amused how these guys could have the same match years apart. I complained that Boss Man and Hogan had the same match over and over again, but this was even worse. Their very first match-up in Philly has insane heat and while it's mostly stalling it's extremely effective when they finally do lock-up. Other memorable bouts are the 1/86 MSG bout where Savage bleeds a gusher and the 5/86 Boston match where Hogan bleeds a gusher. Other than that, the first post-WM V rematch where Sherri pops up makes a change from the Elizabeth schtick they did all the time and the 2/86 lumberjack match offers a different dynamic from their usual bout. I guess my overall impression was that they could've done more. It should've been the WWF version of Flair vs. Luger, but instead of an epic mainevent we got the same 10 minute match each time. Prior to watching these I would've thought that Savage vs. Hogan symbolised the era, but now I'm not really sure. I wouldn't call any of their matches great and I was pretty fucking sick of the match-up by the end of '89. My opinion of Savage as a worker took a bit of a hit watching these and my enthusiasm for Hogan was tempered as well, although '89 Hogan seems to be the big problem so far.

 

Incidently, did Hogan and Piper have a match worth watching?

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There's atleast 5 or 6 Andre The Giant vs Randy Savage singles matches floating around youtube, does any one in particular stand out as being worth watching?

Haven't watched those, but I remember really liking the SNME match. Even though it has Jake coming down for distractions. Even that leads to the awesome "Heenan searching under the ring for Damien" section. Late 80's Andre is really underrated.

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Watched the 1992 Rumble match for the first time in awhile.

 

A few random observations:

 

1. Nikolai Volkoff -- fat and old Nikolai-- springs over the ropes to get into the ring. It was beautiful.

 

2. At one point, Flair clears the ring and collapses to the mat for about 15 seconds. Then Piper enters, and he proceeds to kick Flair's ass all over town for two minutes. It's a terrific segment because it puts over Piper as a badass, which helps cement his IC belt from earlier in the show. And of course it helps tell the story of Flair overcoming tremendous odds.

 

3. Hogan is a dick. Even though the story was clearly about Flair, he immediately steals every bit of spotlight from the second he's in the ring. He clears a bunch of guys, and once Flair wins he takes over the ring and basically runs off Flair so he can start his ridiculous Sid feud. (that's probably the fault of the booking, but he doesn't help)

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Summerslam 1988

 

It's on Classics on Demand, and I watched the first half last night (up through the Warrior title win).

 

Rougeaus vs Bulldogs

 

Awful. The Bulldogs are total dicks, esp for being Faces in the match. They don't ever allow the Rougeau boys to get any kind of shine. In fact, even when there is a rare control segment that leads to a Bulldog-in-Peril and a hot tag, I never really felt like the Rougeaus were truly in control. It's a shameful performance, but I guess it's not so unusual compared to what we have heard about Davey Boy and Dynamite.

 

Bad News Brown vs Ken Patera

 

I have already forgotten this one.

 

Rick Rude vs JYD

 

There's really only two things about this match that make it worth watching: 1. Rude's cartoony overselling. He was awful about that in his WWF days, but it made it fun here and helped to cover up some of Dog's limitations. Plus, he goes outside after several of those headbutts, and he puts his head on Heenan's shoulder. Heenan kind of hugs him and comforts him for a minute before sending him back into the ring. Awesome. 2. The reveal of Cheryl Roberts on Rude's tights. The Jake run-in was easily the most exciting part of the whole match.

 

Powers of Pain vs The Bolsheviks

 

Meh. Am I the only one who thinks Warlord looks a bit like Louis CK?

 

Warrior vs Honkey Tonk Man

 

Crowd loves it. I think it's a terrible performance even by UW standards. All he does is go into the ring and act a fool, and every once in awhile remembers he's supposed to be working a match. I like Warrior generally, but I don't like him here. Crowd does, though, and that's all that matters.

 

At some point, there's a clip of Brutus getting injured on the previous Superstars. WWE literally put a big red X with the word "censored" over about 85% of the screen. I could barely tell what was happening, but they were obviously trying to cover up the blade job. It did look pretty intense for a TV taping.

 

Also, we get an endless Brother Love and Hacksaw interview segment. Jesus, that was terrible. Love only has about four lines, and he repeats them over and over. And Duggan pretty much just makes silly faces and plays with his 2x4.

 

Commentary is Gorilla and Superstar Graham. Billy starts off pretty badly, but as the show goes on I sometimes forget I am listening to him and think it's Dusty. Too bad he doesn't have Dusty's genius for saying bizarre things.

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