JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 One thing I've always interested in, is when you see a guy who has clearly come to the end of his run in one of the major feds -- a good year or two past his sell-by date -- who is being used as a jobber to the stars. Often a sad sight to see, but I'm trying think of the best possible example of that. A guy where you can just see the fire has gone out of his eyes. I'm thinking Hercules Hernandez in 1992. He was in a pretty sad state of affairs. Look at this Survivor Series team from 1991: That's Col. Mustafa (Iron Sheik), who also had a very sad run well into 1992, fat, out of shape and over-the-hill, jobbing in a string of 2-3 minute squash matches. I heard this one match where Alfred Hayes just BURIED him. Things must be bad if you're getting buried by Lord Alfred Hayes and Sean Mooney. (EDIT: I found it, vs. Ricky Steamboat in 1991: http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xaf0eb_th...-vs-col-m_sport about 3.40 minutes in, Hayes goes on about how fat Mustafa is for about about a minute, the Mooney points out Mustafa's long string of recent defeats.) Then going clockwise: The Berzerker, The Bully and Skinner. Arguably the worst ever Survivor Series team. And poor Herc was a sub for this match! He replaced The Bully at the last minute. He must have been so low here. This is his last match for the WWF against Sid: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N7mZChJZ1io Just no sells a powerbomb and walks out. Really sorry looking. Can't think of another guy to look that dejected. WWF had a lot of the old 80s guys in these sorts of roles circa 1992. Dino Bravo was still around.; Virgil; Sanatana as El Matador; Nikolai Volkoff. I have a morbid fascination with this sort of thing. Ken Patera in 1988. Tommy Rich in 1992. Buddy Landell in 1996. Bobby Eaton in 2000. Perhaps my all-time favourite example is Jerry Valiant getting squashed in 8 seconds vs. Bundy on SNME in 1986. Sad figure. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Herc is awesome in 91. He's got a string of good PTW matches and the best Inverted Atomic Drop in wrestling history that year. And honestly, that survivor series team is pretty good. Steve Mfing Keirn who had the craziest moveset in the WWF in 1991, John Nord, who had probably the best looking offense in the WWF in 1991, and Herc who really did have a good year in 91 (I suggest checking out the bossman matches). 3 out of 4 isn't bad. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Valiant jobbed to Uncle Elmer, didn't he? Looking back, Skinner was a good character. Balding Steve Keirn probably wouldn't work as a sex symbol. He needed a drastic makeover to get over as a heel and he was virtually unrecognizable. But he was still a solid worker. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Sorry, double post. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Oh you're right it was Uncle Elmer! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Dino Bravo was unmotivated right from the start. He's easily my pick for worst WWF wrestler of the 80's, just awful, slow and boring. One of my most hated WWF 80's wrestlers alongside Valentine(after 86) and Ron Bass. Those guys are always instant FF'ers. Ken Patera is definitely on the list as well, but he admits he was depressed and could have cared less. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Have you seen Valentine in WCW after his WWF run? I quite liked his feud with Ron Garvin though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I have the WCW dvd's, but never watched them or his run there. Yeah the Garvin feud was good if not for Garvin's all time hilarious introduction of Valentine at Summerslam alone. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Curt Hennig in WCW was pretty awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 The Sid/Herc match was the first one that occurred to me off the gas and grey hair. Demolition Ax at Survivor Series 1990 is another example likewise off the gas, grey and really half assed facepaint. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Curt Hennig in WCW was pretty awful. He had a good run in 97. He had two matches with the Giant I loved. Bumping crazy for him. Once he lost the U.S Belt I think he started phoning it in. Except for the team with Windham. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Resident Evil Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Curt Hennig in WCW was pretty awful. He had a good run in 97. He had two matches with the Giant I loved. Bumping crazy for him. Once he lost the U.S Belt I think he started phoning it in. Except for the team with Windham. He had two really strong matches with Benoit too with the Nitro one being awesome. Did he wrestle a match against Bret Hart as well? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted March 27, 2011 Author Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 How about Windham himself after about 1993/4? I don't think there was a guy who could put on weight and get out of shape quicker than Windham. His WWF run around 96 is horrendous. Actually, Windham seemed to have stopped caring in 93, even while he had the NWA belt. I'm probably going to get ripped apart for saying this, but for me Barry's just about the most overrated guy going because for at least half his career he just didn't seem at the races at all. That said, I love his suplex into a pin every time I see it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 He wasn't bad in his WWF run. Not great but he had his moments. Anyway Barry called himself overrated. That he never lived up to his potential. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Scott Hall went downhill fast, mainly due to substances, also due to WCW afraid to cut him loose. Carlito was so demotivated they booked Ric Flair to rip him a new asshole during an episode of RAW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hennig was ruined by the WWF. He was incredible in the AWA Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Al Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Hennig definitely, he just looked like crap physically in WCW. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I'm watching WCW 1998, and Hennig is in my top 5 of worst performers on TV on a regular basis, along with Konnan and Brian Adams. In September he seems to get a bit more motivated again, and he's wearing long shorts to hide a huge knee brace. But up to the Summer, Hennig was just awful. He also had a very awkward way of bumping, trying to do some half-ass "insane" bumping like he used to, but always pivoting to never fall on his back, which made for very odd looking bumps. From memory I think he was actually decent in 99, but we'll see. Another guy that just looked like crap in 98 was the British Bulldog. And I'm talking about way before fucking up his back on Warrior's trap in September. This is the same guy who had a legit MOTYC with Owen the previous year, some excellent tag matches and another very good single match with Michaels depsite being banged up in fall of 97. In WCW the Bulldog was just atrocious to watch. Seemingly no power left in his body, no desire to do anything, screwing up simple spots. Amazing. After the trap door accident it was over, his comeback in WWF was even worst, just godawful at that point. He could look halfway decent in tag matches but the workload had to be carried by Jim Neidhart. *gasp* Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Another guy that just looked like crap in 98 was the British Bulldog. And I'm talking about way before fucking up his back on Warrior's trap in September. This is the same guy who had a legit MOTYC with Owen the previous year, some excellent tag matches and another very good single match with Michaels depsite being banged up in fall of 97. In WCW the Bulldog was just atrocious to watch. Seemingly no power left in his body, no desire to do anything, screwing up simple spots. Amazing. After the trap door accident it was over, his comeback in WWF was even worst, just godawful at that point. He could look halfway decent in tag matches but the workload had to be carried by Jim Neidhart. *gasp* Bulldog's last WWE match vs Eddy was really quite good though. Track it down. Also, Re: Windham. You have to keep in mind he had his knee totally reconstructed in 93 and then when he came back in 94, it literally decomposed and fell apart in his first match back with Flair. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 I always enjoyed fat and old Windham. Enjoyed him as a Blackjack. Enjoyed him as a "NWA" representative. Enjoyed his last WCW run. Windham is a guy that was so good that even when he got fat and banged up and lazy, I always enjoyed him to a degree. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
S.L.L. Posted March 27, 2011 Report Share Posted March 27, 2011 Actually, Windham seemed to have stopped caring in 93, even while he had the NWA belt. You ever see his title defense against 2 Cold Scorpio? Great stuff, and definitely not just because of 2 Cold. I actually thought his NWA Title run was pretty strong given how inconsequential the belt was at that point. For great post-knee reconstruction/destruction Windham...it's been a while since I've seen it, but I remember really digging his match with Steve Corino from Dusty's TWA in 2002. It was on Schneider Comp #22. Give Will money. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 How about Windham himself after about 1993/4? I don't think there was a guy who could put on weight and get out of shape quicker than Windham. His WWF run around 96 is horrendous. Actually, Windham seemed to have stopped caring in 93, even while he had the NWA belt. I'm probably going to get ripped apart for saying this, but for me Barry's just about the most overrated guy going because for at least half his career he just didn't seem at the races at all. That said, I love his suplex into a pin every time I see it. This is a bit interesting when pointing to 1993. The Barry-Scorp is looked on favorably. I know that OJ likes another Barry-Scop sprint that was on TV. There's a Barry-Regal is getting praise on the 1993 Set. There's a rematch from Starcade early in the year that Loss liked. Folks seem to like the Barry-Steamer from January as well. It's somewhat too bad that the Barry-Arn from Slambore didn't make the set... not really because it's a Great~! match, but it's PPV NWA Title match between the two and interesting to see what they'd be up to. Not that long either as it was a shade over 10 minutes. Not saying Barry was off the hook in 1993 as I haven't watched all the TV since way back then, and the TV often could be pretty boring and/or screwy when tossing out matches that look good on paper only to have the run-ins or screw job 3-4 minutes into it. But a pair of Scorp matches, the tag title rematch, the Regal match and the Steamer match... not a terrible start to a year before the injury hit. I'm pretty sure that there would be more Barry on the 1992 set, and he'll get some praise there. He was right around his 33rd birthday when he blew the hell out of his knee. I'd tend to agree that Barry never was much of one to push himself hard on injuries and other stuff. Perhaps he was smart with his money and didn't have to bust his ass to come back, but that doesn't sound right. He didn't seem 100% when he game back, and then vannished again after that. Basically 3 years of not doing much of anything other than the one match with Flair in 1994. Really one of the great, bizzaro mysteries of the 90s. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Barry had a definite formula on TV in late winter-early summer 93. He was doing the same match every week from right before when he got the NWA Belt to well into his run. It's really interesting if you watch those matches back to back. And It's not a bizarro mystery, John. He cleared it up in his shoot. His knee literally decomposed completely in the midst of that Flair match, just a few minutes in. The replacement didn't take and it had decayed within his knee and poof, once he put pressure on it, it went again. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Which Flair match is he talking about? The title change? John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted March 28, 2011 Report Share Posted March 28, 2011 Slamboree 94 I think. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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