goodhelmet Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I forgot who posted it, but there was a cartoon strip with Joe and Punk with Punk basically laughing at Joe when everyone thought Joe did the right thing at the time not to become the next Umaga and predicted Punk would never exit JTTS status. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 I forgot who posted it, but there was a cartoon strip with Joe and Punk with Punk basically laughing at Joe when everyone thought Joe did the right thing at the time not to become the next Umaga and predicted Punk would never exit JTTS status. Hindsight is 20/20 and all, but to be fair there was absolutely no reason to believe things wouldn't work out the way people expected at the time. Hell, it was amazing Umaga was able to make the Umaga character work as well as he did. I'm not sure Joe could have pulled off the "savage" gimmick as well. Also you could play Devil's Advocate and argue that leading a stable of nobodies and having your wins overshadowed by R-Truth and his Little Jimmy of the week isn't that far from being a JTTS. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smkelly Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 There is no doubt in my mind that Joe could have done as excellent a job as Jamal did playing Umaga. I can see the quiet stoic suplex machine working in the WWE for Joe, but not the savage island warrior gimmick. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeCampbell Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Is there any correlation between TNA completely going off the handle and Russo's return? The first REALLY bad thing I'm remembering is Voodoo Kin Mafia and their quasi shoot promos on Vince and DX. I know TNA had been stupid before that, such as everyone thinking that Nash was really going to put over Chris Sabin. But at least that had those funny promos with Nash and Shelley. Nash: I drew 43,000 people to MSG Shelley: Does MSG hold 43,000? Nash: It did that night! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Yeah, Russo was the one who came up with the Voodoo Kin Mafia gimmick, it's one of the first things he did when he was rehired as head writer. What makes the Russo rehiring so dumb is that they rehired him at the same time they had signed Kurt Angle. At least Russo didn't screw up Angle's debut match, but it was all quickly downhill from there. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted June 16, 2011 Report Share Posted June 16, 2011 Russo isn't alone in this, but he takes gimmicks based on puns and acronyms to a new level. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bob Morris Posted June 17, 2011 Report Share Posted June 17, 2011 There certainly is a pattern with Russo when it comes to wrestling companies... when he gains more power, the product gets worse. As he gained power in WWF, things got worse... and the only thing that stopped the downward spiral was his departure. He then gains a lot of power in WCW and things spiral downhill. He then comes to TNA, the product stinks and he leaves. He then returns when the product was getting better, then as he gains power, things get worse. As bad as TNA has been, though, there are only two things that will lead to its demise... either one of these two: 1. The Carters decide to quit pumping money into TNA 2. Viacom kicks TNA off Spike TV But as long as they keep getting the money pumped in and they don't piss off Viacom, they will stick around, as bad as the product is. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Like I said in the other thread, TNA is the worst promotion in history. Here are it's contenders: GLOW - GLOW had really well defined faces and heels. You always knew who to cheer for. The wrestling was bad, but the angles fit the characters. Speaking of the characters, you always knew what the characters were about and what their motives were within 10 seconds of seeing them. I can't figure out what's going on with TNA guys after 5 years. UWF - I don't think UWF was bad. Okay, Davey Meltzer was stupid, but it was unoffensive and easy to understand wrestling. I never felt like an idiot after watching it. Last days of the AWA - I liked the last days of the AWA. With WWF having cherry picked all their talent they had to put alot of younger guys on the card. Nothing great was going on, but the wrestling was passable. Also, OX BAKER. XPW - I used to like their tv show. There were always some luchadores or Matt Cross on there and it introduced me to some California guys that I never saw before. WCW 2000 - I haven't seen enough of it but they still had a packed cruiserweight roster and some other talented guys. The WW/SN shows weren't bad at all. WOW - I really loved WOW. Along the same lines as GLOW but a little more believable and up to date. They got alot out of a bunch of sparsely trained actresses and models. They never deserved the reputation they got and they still should be in buisness. I'd watch that over most other current promotions. Current WWE - I think WWE is at it's current worst ever, but I'd still take it over TNA. Smackdown is generally inoffensive atleast. So yeah, TNA wins. I've never watched a show that left me so confused and left me feeling like such an idiot week in and week out like TNA. They've learned nothing in 9 years and they generally seem to get worse and worse. I've watched almost every wrestling show on tv that I've ever had access to and TNA is the only one I refuse to watch. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Has TNA ever ran a PPV as good as Slamboree 2000 or Bash at the Beach 2000? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 WOW - I really loved WOW. Along the same lines as GLOW but a little more believable and up to date. They got alot out of a bunch of sparsely trained actresses and models. They never deserved the reputation they got and they still should be in buisness. I'd watch that over most other current promotions.I only enjoyed WOW as the guiltiest of pleasures. The gimmicks were backwards to the point of practically being offensive, the storylines were almost nonexistent, the production was often pretty bush-league, and the wrestling stank like week-old fish. Even being a mark for a couple of the girls like Jacklyn Hyde didn't help making the rest of the show any easier to watch. Has TNA ever ran a PPV as good as Slamboree 2000 or Bash at the Beach 2000?I'd argue that half the TNA PPVs ever were better than those two shows. They were Russo at his worst, unfiltered and with near-total creative control. The vast majority of the matches on those shows didn't even go ten minutes, there was constant outside interference and shenanigans, and the booking was the usual swirling diarrhea flush of nonsensical swerves. At least most TNA shows will give you a couple of nice long workrate matches with (relatively) minimal foolishness, as a half-assed apology for the reeking bullshit which makes up the rest of the card. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 Some would include Global in the discussion and those some would be wrong. I'll say flat out I like Global. Think it was better worked with better bookers. XPW's worst stuff rivals the worst stuff from TNA but there was always the possibility that you would get crazy Terry Funk, an insane Shane Douglas promo, et. Also I am fully confident that had they been around longer they would have had more quality matches than TNA has had in recent memory. Since 07 I would struggle to name ten TNA matches I feel were unquestionably good. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jingus Posted June 19, 2011 Author Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 XPW's worst stuff rivals the worst stuff from TNA but there was always the possibility that you would get crazy Terry Funk, an insane Shane Douglas promo, et. Also I am fully confident that had they been around longer they would have had more quality matches than TNA has had in recent memory. Since 07 I would struggle to name ten TNA matches I feel were unquestionably good.I'd probably rather watch TNA than XPW. XPW's local undercard guys were a pretty untalented bunch, the deathmatch garbage was pretty bad, the announcing was some of the worst I've ever heard, and of course all of Rob Black's backstage shenanigans put Dixie Carter to shame in the total-fucking-scumbag territory. On the other topic: how narrowly would you define "unquestionably good"? Even a company as dogshit horrible as TNA will accidentally crap out a watchable match, sometimes even more than once on the same show. Not really an "if this was on a Tokyo Dome show, it'd still be awesome" level of quality, but certainly along the lines of "if this was two indy nobodies doing the exact same match in a National Guard armory, I'd think it was pretty damn good". Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 I wouldn't call "watchable" and "unquestionably good" the same thing. To me in order for something to fit into that category it has to be something memorable. Something I saw, thought was good, and can recall with some knowledge of what I liked about it. That is not a high standard. There are hundreds of WWE matches in the last decade that would fit that definition. In the entire history of TNA there MIGHT be 40-50 almost all of which come from 05/06. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Victator Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 hey were Russo at his worst, unfiltered and with near-total creative control You would think that but both shows are actually good. The finishes kinda sucked but the action was good. I don't remember any of the matches being short. Checking the cards most of the matches ran average ppv lengths. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kjh Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 At least most TNA shows will give you a couple of nice long workrate matches with (relatively) minimal foolishness, as a half-assed apology for the reeking bullshit which makes up the rest of the card. I think those matches have become less common ever since Russo got more power and Bischoff and Hogan came in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 WOW - I really loved WOW. Along the same lines as GLOW but a little more believable and up to date. They got alot out of a bunch of sparsely trained actresses and models. They never deserved the reputation they got and they still should be in buisness. I'd watch that over most other current promotions.I only enjoyed WOW as the guiltiest of pleasures. The gimmicks were backwards to the point of practically being offensive, the storylines were almost nonexistent, the production was often pretty bush-league, and the wrestling stank like week-old fish. Even being a mark for a couple of the girls like Jacklyn Hyde didn't help making the rest of the show any easier to watch. They had some other good ones too though: Caged Heat with Delta Lotta Pain(no way you could hate that name), Riot, PATTI PIZAZZ, Slam Dunk and Ice Cold. I liked Jane Blond too just because it was different and because it might have been the first secret agent gimmick in wrestling. I thought the production was really good for such a small company. 100 times better than ROH. Gotta give them credit too for drawing a decent house on their ppv. They managed to get 9,500 people in attendance at their ppv which is something TNA hasn't come close to. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 19, 2011 Report Share Posted June 19, 2011 WOW tapings (and I would think the PPV as well) were heavily comped, as they worked with schools a lot and had tons of kids bused in. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rzombie1988 Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 WOW tapings (and I would think the PPV as well) were heavily comped, as they worked with schools a lot and had tons of kids bused in.TNA comps now technically by not charging anything and they can't get half that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 WOW tapings (and I would think the PPV as well) were heavily comped, as they worked with schools a lot and had tons of kids bused in.TNA comps now technically by not charging anything and they can't get half that TNA isn't running Los Angeles and has never worked with schools to fill the building AFAIK. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tim Evans Posted June 20, 2011 Report Share Posted June 20, 2011 I know for a fact they worked with some local High school football teams and had them sit in the front row. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JMFabianoRPL Posted July 3, 2011 Report Share Posted July 3, 2011 Some would include Global in the discussion and those some would be wrong. I'll say flat out I like Global. Think it was better worked with better bookers. Come on now, the Grey Pierson era is a definite contender. (And yet I still watched loyally, go figure) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Does anyone know when Eddie Gilbert replaced Bill Eadie as GWF Booker? Or was there someone between them? Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 I think he took over as booker around the time the Dark Patriot showed up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mad Dog Posted July 4, 2011 Report Share Posted July 4, 2011 Oh the actual topic. TNA had the awesome LAX/Styles/Daniels feud going right into Russo's takeover. 2005 and 2006 were actually pretty good years and they had a good run when Raven showed up in 2003. The product took a huge dive the second Russo showed up for his second run though. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted July 7, 2011 Report Share Posted July 7, 2011 Some would include Global in the discussion and those some would be wrong. I'll say flat out I like Global. Think it was better worked with better bookers. XPW's worst stuff rivals the worst stuff from TNA but there was always the possibility that you would get crazy Terry Funk, an insane Shane Douglas promo, et. Also I am fully confident that had they been around longer they would have had more quality matches than TNA has had in recent memory. Since 07 I would struggle to name ten TNA matches I feel were unquestionably good. I pretty much quit TNA cold turkey last year and had been sporadic in 08-09, but stuff I checked out and liked due to word of mouth AMW-MCMG best of 5 series Flair-Jay Lethal program Flair-Foley hardcore match a 4 way tag team match that was memorable due to it being Booker's last appearance and Scott Steiner having an awesome performance Bully Ray v. D-Von matches Joe-Daniels-AJ 3-way rematch Angles matches with Kennedy and Jarrett have been pimped fairly heavily, but I just can't bring myself to care about anything Angle does anymore Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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