What are you watching?

[Smack2k]

Lizmark © vs. La Parka - NWA World Middleweight Title - AAA - 7-18-94

 

....And my run of good lucha comes to a screeching halt. I dont know what else to say but this match sucked. It was bad. They were moving in what seemed like slow motion the entire match, with nothing really building off anything else and neither guy really doing that much outside a tope suicida from Lizmark to La Parka that ended in a double countout and Lizmark's powerbomb that ended it. Once the tercera caida started, both masks got ripped and La Parka in particular did nothing but hold his mask the rest of the way while Lizmark followed, slowly, behind. I cant find any positives in this match, so if anyone else has seen it and can tell me what I missed, please do. Not a match I will watch again...

[ohtani's jacket]

The first Lizmark/Parka match was awesome. The next two were poor.

[Smack2k]

Do you Know the date of the first one. I'd love to see it to forget about the one I saw

[Stiva]

Deciding to watch Raw and Nitro back to back now that I have the Network and it's so odd. I've seen all of these shows before but never as they were aired, as it were. It stands out how much every single part of Nitro seems fresh and new, aside from the segments with Hogan. Even the Flair/Arn cage match, which should be a huge match, is over within 8 minutes and the announcers spend most of the time talking about the "NEW" Hulk Hogan. Turning heel was a masterstroke but it's telling how tired wrestling audiences were of him for most of the 90s to this point.

 

At my current watch, Raw is right in the period where Watts was booking and one episode has that amazing Diesel/Shawn/Taker vs Bulldog/Yoko/Owen six man with the great heel beatdown and it's followed with a ten minute segment that's just Vince and Lawler commentating over Bret/Issac Yankem from Summerslam. You take the rough with the smooth, I suppose.

 

Also, PG-13's WWF run really did rule.

[Smack2k]

Invaders #1 / #3 vs. Sheepherders - North American Tag Titles - Barbed Wire Match - WWC - August 25, 1985

 

Four men enter, beat the shit out of each other for 12 minutes, the Sheeps bleed buckets and the Invaders win....simple and fuckin awesome....check it out on Youtube...

[Matt D]

Ended up watching Bockwinkel vs Santana (20 mins out of 27), Bockwinkel vs Bravo (about the same), Bockwinkel vs the Baron (10 mins or so), Ellering/Road Warriors vs Blackwell/High Flyers, Freebirds vs Tenryu/Ishikawa, a Misterioso/Volador Sr title match and about half the Puebla show tonight.

 

I caught the ADR/Zeb promo too, which was rough. Otherwise, it was a pretty good night for wrestling on my end.

[khawk20]

Ended up watching Bockwinkel vs Santana (20 mins out of 27), Bockwinkel vs Bravo (about the same), Bockwinkel vs the Baron (10 mins or so), Ellering/Road Warriors vs Blackwell/High Flyers, Freebirds vs Tenryu/Ishikawa, a Misterioso/Volador Sr title match and about half the Puebla show tonight.

 

I caught the ADR/Zeb promo too, which was rough. Otherwise, it was a pretty good night for wrestling on my end.

I'm guessing the Bock-Baron was from Winnipeg? That would have been from 1985.

 

They had a match on 6/19/81 from the Minneapolis Auditorium too. That one I think scared Verne a bit. Bock had just got the title back by acclaimation when Verne retired, and they matched him up with Raschke, who hadn't been in all that long as the avenger for Mad Dog Vachon and was incredibly over with the fans...probably your #1 babyface singles guy at that moment in time.

 

It was thought that matching Bock against Baron would draw very well (and it should have), but they underestimated how many people were turned off by Bock getting the title back for basically nothing, especially being unable to regain it from Verne for almost a full year prior.

 

The house for the Minneapolis show was pretty poor, as can be seen in the video of the match. I have always thought that scared Verne into realizing how negatively the fans were reacting...which prompted Sheik Adnan Al-Kaissie to get the next title match in the Twin Cities. Kaissie was actually a real contender in singles at that time and was in the middle of a feud with Tito Santana after Sheik cut Tito with his sword on TV. The Tito series was cut short (most markets only saw one match in what was going to be a multi-match feud) to plug in Kaissie vs. Bock.

The idea was to get Nick cheered by taking on the biggest heel in the territory, and as such build his cred back up as the champ. Sound idea except they forgot that Bock had someone even more loathesome in his corner as far as the fans were concerned...Bobby Heenan.

Once that clicked in, Heenan was mostly kept away from the matches with Kaissie so that the heat would stay on the Sheik. In their first Minny match, as I remember it Heenan was bloodied badly in a singles match earlier in the card and couldn't be at ringside. In their No-DQ match after that with a designated special referee, Kaissie attacked Heenan with the sword at the start of the match and had to be helped to the dressing room, bloodied, so he wasn't around either. Heenan would return at the end of the match briefly for a good reason...if Kaissie-Bock with Raschke as the ref from Minneapolis is on youtube I highly recommend checking it out, the finish is quite excellent. The same match went down in Winnipeg a few months later with Vachon as the ref, but it isn't nearly as good or effective IMO. Raschke in the Twin Cities was crazy-over back then, which is hard to picture, I know.

 

After the Kaissie series, Bock had his heat back and it was business as usual for the Champ until he met Otto Wanz a year later.

 

I don't know it for sure but I've always believed that Kaissie-Bock never would have happened if Baron-Bock hadn't drawn poorly and scared Verne and Wally into re-thinking things...and if I'm wrong and Verne and Wally had a long-term plan that went exactly like this did, then it marks some extremely shrewd promoting and matchmaking.

[Matt D]

Video says it's : June 28, 1981. St. Paul, Minnesota. I will fully admit to being a sucker for the big moment of the Baron putting on the claw while in the sleeper. They really built to it.

 

A Martel match from 9/29/83 popped up this morning. I don't think that was on the AWA set. As well as a Verne vs Bock match from St. Paul in 1980 that I'm not sure if I've seen before or not.

[khawk20]

June 28th is right, my bad on the date, but it's the Minneapolis Auditorium. Check out how sparse the crowd is on that match when the lights come up.

 

The date on that Martel match sounds familiar. Winnipeg? If so, good match, not sure if the date is right off the top of my head. That must have at least been reviewed for the AWA set if it didn't make it on, if it's the same one I'm thinking of.

 

Verne-Bock I will have to check out if you can provide a link but I think that might be 2/20/81 from the St. Paul Auditorium, not the Civic Center (adjacent building that turned into Roy Wilkins Auditorium). Decent sized venue, it's where ECW had their PPV where Jerry Lynn won the title in 2000. The AWA ran it instead of the Civic Center sometimes.

That match is from I think the same card that we got the High Flyers-Studd-Blackwell match from that aired on WWE Classics. That card may also have been the debut of Brad Rheingans. If I remember later I'll check it out.

[Ricky Jackson]

Great info khawk, especially on Bock vs Kaissie

[Matt D]

June 28th is right, my bad on the date, but it's the Minneapolis Auditorium. Check out how sparse the crowd is on that match when the lights come up.

 

The date on that Martel match sounds familiar. Winnipeg? If so, good match, not sure if the date is right off the top of my head. That must have at least been reviewed for the AWA set if it didn't make it on, if it's the same one I'm thinking of.

 

Verne-Bock I will have to check out if you can provide a link but I think that might be 2/20/81 from the St. Paul Auditorium, not the Civic Center (adjacent building that turned into Roy Wilkins Auditorium). Decent sized venue, it's where ECW had their PPV where Jerry Lynn won the title in 2000. The AWA ran it instead of the Civic Center sometimes.

That match is from I think the same card that we got the High Flyers-Studd-Blackwell match from that aired on WWE Classics. That card may also have been the debut of Brad Rheingans. If I remember later I'll check it out.

Here's Bock vs Gagne:

 

[khawk20]

Date is wrong...Verne didn't win the title until July 18th. That match is 2/20/81, St. Paul Auditorium (Roy Wilkins Aud).

 

It's a new upload but the match has been around forever. You likely watched it for the 80's set and forgot about it.

 

Here is the card:

 

2/20/81 St. Paul
AWA Champion Verne Gagne beat Nick Bockwinkel
Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & John Studd
AWA Tag Team Champions Adrian Adonis & Jesse Ventura beat Tito Santana & Ray Stevens (sub Juan Valez)
Brad Rheingans beat Steve Regal
Buck Zumhofe beat Bill Howard
Curt Hennig beat Kenny Jay

 

The bolded matches all exist on video.

[khawk20]

I checked on his page, I think the Martel match is from this card. There is no listing for a 9/29/83 Winnipeg card in Claw's archives.

 

12/8/83 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena
AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Rick Martel via pin
Referee Buddy Lane
Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell no contest AWA Tag Team Champions Jerry Blackwell & Ken Patera when Sheik Adnan tired to hit Greg Gagne with his arm cast. Gagne ducked and Adnan hit referee Buddy Lane instead.
Bunkhouse Match
Blackjack Lanza beat Bobby Heenan
Mad Dog Vachon no contest David Shults when Mr Saito & Baron Von Raschke interfered
Mr Saito beat Baron Von Raschke
Superstar Billy Graham beat Steve Olsonoski
Bulldog Bob Brown beat Bill White via pin
Att: 5,084

 

It could also be the 2/3/83 show:

2/3/83 Winnipeg, Manitoba, Canada @ Arena
Cage match
AWA Tag Team Champions Greg Gagne & Jim Brunzell beat Jerry Blackwell & Sheik Adnan
AWA Champion Nick Bockwinkel beat Rick Martel with help from Manager Bobby Heenan
Wahoo McDaniel beat Bobby Duncum
Baron Von Raschke beat Sgt Jacques Goulet
Jesse Ventura beat Buck Zumhofe
Ken Patera beat Steve O
Att: 8,896
Note: Note Mad Dog Vachon attacked Blackwell and Sheik Adnan after the main event tag bout was over.

 

I suppose a cross-refence with the style of ropes and filming with other matches that may be on video might identify it properly. I bolded the bouts on those cards that I believe there is video of (although they could be same match, different year or date with the same participants).

[BruiserBrody]

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/a-look-at-bash-at-the-beach-1996/#.Vk9xSvmrTIV

The NWO storyline kicks into high gear as Hall and Nash reveal Hulk Hogan as their mystery partner in a clash with Lex Luger, Sting and Randy Savage, Chris Benoit and Kevin Sullivan brawl all over the arena again despite having Arn Anderson and the Giant in their respective corners, Rey Jr and Psychosis have a Match of the Year candidate, Big Bubba and John Tenta show off wrestling psychology 101, Ric Flair has a stinker with Konnan, The Nasties and Public Enemy have yet another brawl, Dean Malenko is wasting in a match with Disco Inferno, plus garbage from Hacksaw Duggan and Mongo! Some intriguing backstage news is included as well including Dr. Death almost going to the UFC, Vader breaking script in a match with the Ultimate Warrior, the WWF's suing WCW in order to make them break kayfabe and how the NWO angle was nearly ruined before it could barely start.

[NotJayTabb]

Currently working my way through Big Vision's "Before They Were Stars" DVD for Rey Mysterio Jr. Was really looking forward to it, especially as Rey is a top 5 contender for me on the GWE project, but it's got a lot of things going against it. It's largely handheld footage, which is often shaky to the point of being unwatchable. Worse yet, the crowd noise has been overdubbed (so you can't hear any impact when a move is hit) and there is terrible commentary provided by XPW alumni Kriss Kloss, which is ghastly.

 

Matchwise, it's been a bit of a mixed bag. The opener of Rey & El Torrero against Jerry Estrada & Negro Azteca is made up of the rudos attacking Rey's leg with a chair for 95% of it's runtime (with Kloss not realising when the rudos win the first fall). There's a decent Rey/Juvi match and a mixed Rey/Octagon vs KGB/Pentagon tag. Honestly, when Rey working decent underdog sequences againstTom Howard playing faux-Russian is the best part of a DVD so far, it's not a good sign.

[JerryvonKramer]

I am going to watch the World Championship Wrestling eps they uploaded on the WWE network until I pass out.

[JerryvonKramer]

The number of great talkers Crockett had in 1985 is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

[JerryvonKramer]

All-time great promos

 

Dusty

Flair

Arn

Ole

Cornette

Superstar Billy Graham

 

Great promos

 

Tully

JJ Dillon

Buddy Landell

Road Warrior Hawk

 

Very solid promos

 

Ivan Koloff

Manny Fernandez

Ricky Morton

Jimmy Valiant

 

Solid promos

 

Black Bart

Paul Jones

Terry Taylor

Magnum TA

Krusher Kruchev

Baby Doll

Nikita Koloff

 

Over the past two or three hours, all of this people have cut promos on 1985 JCP TV

[BruiserBrody]

http://culturecrossfire.com/wrestling/a-look-at-hog-wild-1996/#.Vlg-bPmrTIV

WCW join "250,000" fans at a biker rally to watch the Giant plod along with Hulk Hogan, Sting and Lex Luger defend WCW's honor against Hall and Nash, Rey Jr flies with the Ultimo Dragon, Ric Flair tangles with Eddy Guerrero, Harlem Heat battle the Steiners as the crowd mimics a KKK rally, Chris Benoit and Dean Malenko put on a near classic, plus more backstage notes on all of WCW's foibles.

[pantherwagner]

The number of great talkers Crockett had in 1985 is absolutely fucking ridiculous.

 

Funny how Ronnie Fuckin Garvin (not a guy anybody talks about as being a good promo) makes a point in 2 or 3 minutes a billion times better than Seth Rollins or Roman Reigns or whoever in 20.

 

A lot of those greal talkers would have cut even better promos if they didn't have to shoehorn Dusty's name on every single damn promo.

[Johnny Sorrow]

Yeah, I'm thinking this whole "Everyone had to mention Dusty" thing is yet another over exaggerated thing based on lore and not reality. All those TBS Saturday Nights from the time are now on the Network, someone (Parv) needs to go through all of them to prove me right.

[goc]

Yeah, I'm thinking this whole "Everyone had to mention Dusty" thing is yet another over exaggerated thing based on lore and not reality. All those TBS Saturday Nights from the time are now on the Network, someone (Parv) needs to go through all of them to prove me right.

It seemed like pantherwagner's post about that very thing was based on current viewing.

[pantherwagner]

 

Yeah, I'm thinking this whole "Everyone had to mention Dusty" thing is yet another over exaggerated thing based on lore and not reality. All those TBS Saturday Nights from the time are now on the Network, someone (Parv) needs to go through all of them to prove me right.

It seemed like pantherwagner's post about that very thing was based on current viewing.

 

 

That's correct. I have watched the first four or five episodes on the network and random parts of 86 here and there, and there are mentions of Dusty everywhere. Some sound forced and don't have a lot to do with the wrestlers cutting the promo, their opponents or their angle. I'm not going to go back and count but it's pretty obvious.

 

I can't say if this was a long term thing or not. It could be that this only happens on the build up to Starrcade... I won't know until I get through every episode on the network (that's the plan!).

[thebrainfollower]

I watched the show on classics on demand for the year I had it and it is most definitely NOT a myth. Okay it didn't happen at every promo every week in a show that had 10 promos, but it happened all the time, out of context, was annoying, made no sense and made me sad. If someone like Dusty is THAT insecure, then again so are most people at that level around then.

 

The WWF at the time did things totally differently. You get the sense that if they filmed backstage today as they do now, and say Hogan bumped into the Rougeau brothers, neither would even know what the other was up to at all, let alone even care. Hogan might now even know who they were and think they WERE faces when they went into their "All American boys" song. Which would actually have made a funny bit.

[Matt D]

I watched the show on classics on demand for the year I had it and it is most definitely NOT a myth. Okay it didn't happen at every promo every week in a show that had 10 promos, but it happened all the time, out of context, was annoying, made no sense and made me sad. If someone like Dusty is THAT insecure, then again so are most people at that level around then.

 

The WWF at the time did things totally differently. You get the sense that if they filmed backstage today as they do now, and say Hogan bumped into the Rougeau brothers, neither would even know what the other was up to at all, let alone even care. Hogan might now even know who they were and think they WERE faces when they went into their "All American boys" song. Which would actually have made a funny bit.

 

That's what made Survivor Series and the Royal Rumble so special and why they're not nearly as special now.