BrickHithouse Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Was just watching a Kobashi retrospective MV someone did and this dawned on me: I cannot envision a world in which Kobashi is not wearing black with blue flame. Like whenever i see him in the orange, I have to remind myself that I'm watching Kobashi. And maybe this is the gear mark in me coming out, but I think I prefer Kobashi with the black and blue than i do with the orange. It just feels more.... him. Anyhow, are there any other wrestlers who bring out this same reaction for you? I never got used to Macho Man wearing the clown suits. Although he wore them all the time from 1990-99. Never got used to it, and always wished he returned to the 3-star trunks. And that's funny about Kobashi, I'm just the opposite. Bothers me when he's not in orange! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I'm with Brick on this one, black & blue Kobashi was great, but never felt like Kobashi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I'm with Brick on this one, black & blue Kobashi was great, but never felt like Kobashi. Maybe this is because I have watched so much NOAH Kobashi. It's like this for me with blue banana hammock-trunks AmDrag, and really anything but the classic Liger outfit just feels inappropriate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Kobashi wearing the orange tights with the black stripes is the outfit that throws me off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 So I was wondering about the criteria for greatest matches versus worst matches of the year. Work rate, selling, execution and storyline purposes are under consideration. But this comes from comments about Andre the Giant versus Warrior being worse match of the year in WON for 89. But as far as yearbook setting we had Sid versus Nightstalker being the worst match for 1990 when I felt Butcher against Zeus was on a whole another level of awfulness as it just dragged out. You would think the criteria of what makes a match great versus bad is the same but I find myself not being in full agreement of that. I can watch a short 10-12 minute sprint and think it is great and matches that go 45-60 can also be best ofs. Matches like Sid/Nightstalker are awful but it only went a couple minutes which as a viewer I can get through that. If it is your heavily plugged main event of your big show and it only goes 5 minutes I can see it being under consideration for worst ever but how often does that happen? I think a huge factor to me is considering a match as worst of the year is the length of time it goes. I come back to Triple H versus Undertaker at King of the Ring 2002 as one of the worst matches I've had to sit through. It goes 24 minutes and it is just excruciating to sit though. Sluggish action through out. A long referee bump by Earl Hebner that plays into the finish. They go 8 minutes, I consider it a bad match. They go 24 of this garbage, it's my worst of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I came up with a totally different notion for the Rockers vs Rose/Somers cage match. It has one segment/element that is so terrible and undermining that it poisons the entire well. It's not a math equation. It doesn't get "points" for having a really well worked heat segment. Like I said, if anything, the heat segment being so good just makes the match worse since it's squandered. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I came up with a totally different notion for the Rockers vs Rose/Somers cage match. It has one segment/element that is so terrible and undermining that it poisons the entire well. It's not a math equation. It doesn't get "points" for having a really well worked heat segment. Like I said, if anything, the heat segment being so good just makes the match worse since it's squandered. I know I've seen comments from you before regarding your issues with the match but would you consider that to be your worst match of 86? Worse than Piper/Mr T? Anyways, I look forward to watching this cage match again as I try to finalize my ballot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FLIK Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 Anyhow, are there any other wrestlers who bring out this same reaction for you? Yeah there's a bunch for me who had the same gear style for so long that it still seems weird to watch them in anything else Dynamite Kansai dropping green Cuty Suzuki, the rare times she didn't wear white Chikayo Nagashima dropping yellow Great Sasuke no longer wearing the full body ninja suit For as much as he gets made fun of, the day he drops his jean shorts and goes back to regular tights sooooo many ppl are gonna be sad. Shit, I think that alone might turn him heel.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I came up with a totally different notion for the Rockers vs Rose/Somers cage match. It has one segment/element that is so terrible and undermining that it poisons the entire well. It's not a math equation. It doesn't get "points" for having a really well worked heat segment. Like I said, if anything, the heat segment being so good just makes the match worse since it's squandered. I know I've seen comments from you before regarding your issues with the match but would you consider that to be your worst match of 86? Worse than Piper/Mr T? Anyways, I look forward to watching this cage match again as I try to finalize my ballot. I think there is a limit to how much the well can be poisoned when you're up against every other terrible match from a year. I have it above the Buck vs Regal match certainly because that match was just put on there to punish us. I kind of want to rewatch Piper/Mr. T? Was that the boxing match? Does that even count? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Ridge Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 I came up with a totally different notion for the Rockers vs Rose/Somers cage match. It has one segment/element that is so terrible and undermining that it poisons the entire well. It's not a math equation. It doesn't get "points" for having a really well worked heat segment. Like I said, if anything, the heat segment being so good just makes the match worse since it's squandered. I know I've seen comments from you before regarding your issues with the match but would you consider that to be your worst match of 86? Worse than Piper/Mr T? Anyways, I look forward to watching this cage match again as I try to finalize my ballot. I think there is a limit to how much the well can be poisoned when you're up against every other terrible match from a year. I have it above the Buck vs Regal match certainly because that match was just put on there to punish us. I kind of want to rewatch Piper/Mr. T? Was that the boxing match? Does that even count? Yeah, it's the boxing match but I do have to question like you said whether that counts now that I think about it. My problem with it was that it was given enough time on a major show and there was way too much pulled punches. Okay, but I'm still going to think it has to be way worse than tag team cage match. But yes Buck/Regal is a perfect example at what I stated originally about a match that goes way too long that is just boring as heck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 15, 2013 Report Share Posted September 15, 2013 It's better to be spectacular but horribly offensive than just barely technically sound but boring as heck? I think it's all a fine line. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thankfully, as I have seen so far, Matt D is an outlier on that cage match so hopefully we can end this AWA set soon so I don't have to hear him harp on it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Maybe it's the circles I travel in (I still e-fed, long after it became hugely popular) but man.... you will never see more go-go-go matches with no hint of selling or anything like it than you will in an e-fed show. It's all spot spot spot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Thankfully, as I have seen so far, Matt D is an outlier on that cage match so hopefully we can end this AWA set soon so I don't have to hear him harp on it. I look forward to finding something else to harp upon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
soup23 Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 MS-1 vs. Chicana from 1983 sounds like a good potential place if you rewatch Matt is consistent with your first viewing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt D Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 My initial guess is that it will be like the Wahoo vs Bock match to me. High on the intensity, relatively weak on the micro building the macro. Bloody. Top third but nothing I am very excited about. But it was the first thing I saw so I might feel very different on a rewatch. I like brawls more than title mtaches so far. I am still a week or two out from buying the set. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Cool. I need a week to take a break. Still burning these damn yearbook orders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted September 16, 2013 Report Share Posted September 16, 2013 Anyone done a Pro Wrestling ring gear thing on here? because I was thinking I might start a thread, and I didn't want to step on toes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Was just watching a Kobashi retrospective MV someone did and this dawned on me: I cannot envision a world in which Kobashi is not wearing black with blue flame. Like whenever i see him in the orange, I have to remind myself that I'm watching Kobashi. Orange. Kobashi started driving me nuts while he was still wearing orange, and I loath his work after he switched trunks. John Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goodhelmet Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Anyone done a Pro Wrestling ring gear thing on here? because I was thinking I might start a thread, and I didn't want to step on toes. Make the thread!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nighthawk Posted September 17, 2013 Report Share Posted September 17, 2013 Anyone done a Pro Wrestling ring gear thing on here? because I was thinking I might start a thread, and I didn't want to step on toes. Make the thread!!!!!! And done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 You simply NEED to watch this video. The future of TV: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
El-P Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 You simply NEED to watch this video. The future of TV: The future of porn at the very least. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slasher Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 You simply NEED to watch this video. The future of TV: The future of porn at the very least. Yeah this shit isn't going to work for a regular wrestling TV broadcast. Part of the beauty in wrestling is in the pacing. Slowing that stuff down only makes things look worse. This would be a good tool for video packages though, if it was on-point, at least, anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted September 18, 2013 Report Share Posted September 18, 2013 I would worry less about pacing then about people thinking that everything needs to look tighter, stiffer and more "real" on TV and... injuries, concussions, etc. I'm a bit surprised that the WWE would even put that out as enough of it, especially on a higher level, creates an expectation of that for the fans. We may think that's unlikely, but think back to the Chairshots era. Back in the 80s, pretty much everyone got their hands up to protect themselves. Any of us who were hardcore fans, even if we became ones without being WON readers but simply enjoyed the fake performance of wrestling, got that the guys put their hands/arms up to keep from getting clocked in the head. It was an expectation that made the outliers such as this stay in our minds: Even with a worked movie-style chair that we all saw as such, it still was "remembered" in the era. In the mid-90s with FMW and ECW, lots of wrestlers stopped protecting themselves. "Realism", etc. We don't need revolution/evolution like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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