Extreme Rules

[KrisZ]

I think WWE is finally getting what they wanted as looking at comments on Twitter there are a lot of people confessing they are/were Cena haters but now they respect him and think he is a badass tough guy.

[Jingus]

And what the fuck were they thinking with that result???

Trusting the franchise of the company more than a guy who might flake out in a month.

 

This, sadly, is true. Brock's well known for doing whatever Brock feels like doing, including abandoning his employer or even his profession on a whim. And we all know how Vince feels about employing people he doesn't have total control over, or at least trust to the extent that he trusts Dwayne Johnson.

[rzombie1988]

And what the fuck were they thinking with that result???

Trusting the franchise of the company more than a guy who might flake out in a month.

 

This, sadly, is true. Brock's well known for doing whatever Brock feels like doing, including abandoning his employer or even his profession on a whim. And we all know how Vince feels about employing people he doesn't have total control over, or at least trust to the extent that he trusts Dwayne Johnson.

 

If you don't trust him, don't sign him Or write the finish in his contract.

[Victator]

Contracts don't mean shit. It is lines on paper, if he got an itch to play pro lacrosse tomorrow he would and WWE could not do shit about it. They are getting what they can while they can.

[jdw]

Odd finish. Sounds like a PPV worth tracking down... but that's a bizzaro world finish. It's kind of sad when we have to twist ourselves into a pretzel trying to figure out / explain Vince-Think.

 

John

[Childs]

Cena-Lesnar was unbelievably compelling. I'm not sure about the booking, but as a standalone, it blew away anything at Wrestlemania and any WWE main event since Cena-Punk last year. Lesnar is a great pro wrestler in that everything he does gets over the guy he's supposed to be.

[Dylan Waco]

Cross posted from DVDVR

 

You know what I am sure tons of people will bitch about that finish, Dolph jobbing and a slew of other shit, but fuck it, that was a tremendous ppv.

 

Miz v. Santino was perfectly acceptable pre-show stuff, but man alive has Miz fallen by the wayside. Santino is a successful character but a part of me wishes they would let him break out of the comedy ghetto a bit because when they give him an inch he usually takes a mile. Regardless it was a decent enough match.

 

Kane v. Orton was WAYYY better than it should have been. It went long and Orton throws the strangest looking punches of anyone on the roster, but Kane really worked hard and there were little things in the match I really liked. Randy actually selling the impact of the dropkick on the floor and DDT on the floor was nice and Kane through some awesome uppercuts. The hopscotch set up for the RKO was never more obvious but I actually thought it was a pretty good match.

 

Dolph v. Brodus is something I imagine a lot of people will hate on and I get why, but look at it this way - they are actually pushing someone the right way. Shame Dolph has to be the guy to get jobbed, but he bumped like a nut for Brodus and I enjoyed it while it lasted.

 

Big Show v. Cody was short too, but thoroughly enjoyable as a match. I am up and down on Cody but he took some fucking insane bumps here and his springboard spot off the table was actually really cool. Finish was pretty brilliant too and Show's facial expression and post-match destruction made it even better. I have not given a fuck about this feud, but this was a very good segment.

 

Ryback squash was entertaining, but I am opposed to the notion of squashes on ppv. Why not do some bit on SD last week to set him up v. Slater or someone with a "name?"

 

Layla's return was probably a disappointment for some but I marked out for it. Match was short but decent and that finishing neckbreaker was fucking brutal.

 

The big three matches all delivered.

 

Sheamus v. Bryan was a legitimately great match, that I almost feel sorry for them because the main event will overshadow it in the eyes of many. Still the 2/3 falls format was something these guys knew how to work and they worked it really well. It helps a lot that both of these guys have a huge variety of credible looking offensive spots, to the point where in a multiple fall match almost any one of them is something you can buy as a fall. That adds to the false finishes and these guys both sell well enough where it's not your standard trading falls/spot running overkill. Loved Sheamus Texas Cloverleaf, selling of the arm and the spot with him attempting to rake Bryan's face only for Bryan to smash his arm down on his shoulder anyhow was pretty Finlayesque. I also thought the tope cut off via elbow looked particularly nasty here. Neat change up with the first fall going super long and the stuff with Bryan taking the fall and winning via pass out in the second was as well played as it possibly could have been. Final fall was also really great stuff from the jump and Bryan's exclamation point bump on the finish made it. Both guys were just tremendous here really.

 

Punk v. Jericho was either the best bad match I can remember seeing or the worst good one. It was sloppy as fuck, some of the stuff just looked bizarre and there were points where it looked like it was about to go right over the rails. Having said that they managed to hold it all together and while the storyline they are working is utter shit the way they incorporated it into this match actually worked pretty well. Punk took some really wild bumps in this in the sense that they were formless and dangerous. I actually thought the fire extinguisher spot was shockingly well done considering the fact it is 2012 and that was a fire extinguisher shot. Some of the cane shots looked really brutal. Punk snapping on Jericho for going after his "sister" was a great moment and Jericho fucking creaming Punk with the monitor was unexpected. Punk's battle against the top rope actually added to the wild nature of the match and the big elbow and the finishing run was really solid too. I could absolutely see some people hating this, but I liked it a lot and I have viscerally hated this feud.

 

Brock v. Cena was surreal as fuck and I'm not totally sure it was the right thing for business but I actually thought it was a brilliant match. I had VERY low expectations and feared the worst so maybe that has something to do with it, but the Snowman v. Lawler style opening with Brock legit busting Cena was fucking insane and immediately sucked me in. I could see some hating the switch to pro style but I thought the way it was done was really smart as they sort of slowly edged toward that direction. Brock playing with Cena, like a cat with a dead bird was great shit. This was Cena at his best, selling his ass off for a beast, working king of the mountain spots, taking some big time bumps and fucking bleeding like a stuck pig. Brock was also really great as the cocky jock. I think my favorite moment from him was his face when he came to after the desperation spinebuster on the stairs, glancing around like Biff Tannen after getting knocked the fuck out by George McFly, coming too and realizing he was still the baddest motherfucker in the room. Spot with Brock wiping out on the floor looked scary as fuck, but was covered for in the most awesome way possible and Cena coming back with the chain shot, Brock blading and the finish were all great and shocking spots. This was like a fucked up hybrid of Mayweather/Show and Cena/Umaga and I loved every god damned second of it. Post-match Cena promo was...interesting and I could see it meaning a variety of different things

[Johnny Sorrow]

just moved into a new house and the first event we've held was tonight's show. We all sat here among the packed and unpacked stuff and watched a God damned amazingly fun PPV. This was the best pre housewarming party ever.

[Phil Schneider]

Cena-Lesnar was unbelievably compelling. I'm not sure about the booking, but as a standalone, it blew away anything at Wrestlemania and any WWE main event since Cena-Punk last year. Lesnar is a great pro wrestler in that everything he does gets over the guy he's supposed to be.

Totally agree, it kind of felt like an Ogawa v. Hashimoto match, just great stuff. I also felt Cena winning was perfectly consistent with the match and the right move. You can't have your main guys demolished with no comeuppance, and it certainly didn't hurt Lesnar.

[kjh]

Odd finish. Sounds like a PPV worth tracking down... but that's a bizzaro world finish. It's kind of sad when we have to twist ourselves into a pretzel trying to figure out / explain Vince-Think.

 

John

I can't wait till Paul Heyman tells Dave Meltzer that it was all Kevin Dunn's fault as he told Vince you can't put the UFC guy over the WWE guy. The result was only surprising if you thought WWE would do the best thing to make money off the Lesnar deal rather than satisfy their egos.

[Mr Wrestling X]

Lesnar vs. Cena was an awesome effort and the best match that Cena has had since MITB last year. I agree with the result because both men came out looking like gold and Lesnar didn't need to win when he dominated in the way he did and of course, the way that his loss occured, that came across as a moment of luck for Cena - it actually reminded me of those old Vader vs. Ric Flair WCW matches where Flair would be dominated (although not to the degree that Cena was here) and then get one lucky move, such as an inside cradle to take the win.

 

Honestly, Lesnar has not lost a step in the five years that he's been away from the business and by working in an MMA style to his pro-wrestling repotoire, he's become much more versatile as a performer. He could have done with not taking that reckless bump that he did last night, but Lesnar is no ordinary man as anyone who has followed his career will know and we all know that he has no problem with doing something (the SSP at Wrestlemania XIX) even if he's advised against it.

 

I'm fairly certain that both men bladed last night because had Lesnar really connected, Cena would have been knocked silly and the match would have been a disaster. I can possibly see the initial brawl's "busted lip" as being hardway, but it just looked so "saturated" when Cena was later seen backstage that it seemed to me to have been a blood pellet and makeup job.

 

Lesnar actually dwarfs Cena, which is an impressive feat given that Cena has one of the biggest physiques in professional wrestling. I'll go out on a limb and say that I genuinely think that Cena is just a gym freak and not a steroid use, whereas Lesnar is a freak of nature and has always been built like a tank (check out his high school and college wrestling footage). It was pretty awe-inspiring to watch Lesnar effortlessly pick up Charles Robinson with one hand and toss him in the ring, sure Lil'Naitch isn't exactly the biggest of men but even still, Lesnar picked him up without any apparent exertion and tossed him through the ropes like a bear discarding it's prey. For a guy that has been severely ill with diverticulitis for extended periods of time, it's incredible that he's maintained this level of strength.

 

I think that Lesnar will continue as dominant performer and sparingly lose matches from this point onwards, although I think the "bloody" and one-sided nature of his character will be phased out gradually in order to move into competitive matches in the build up to Wrestlemania XXIX where Lesnar will presumably face either Rock, Cena or Undertaker.

[Matt D]

I'm thinking that the story is that Cena won a shoot and he thinks he will be fired by Big Johnny because he wasn't supposed to win but won anyway.

Don't even joke.

 

Lesnar's going to come out and Sid whoever's in the ring first, probably Miz and Kofi or something.

[El-P]

Sounds like a main event I would want to watch, and sounds like a much better show than Mania. That being said, I sure hope it's nothing like Hash vs Ogawa, because that was fucking awful at every level.

The result kinda baffles me though. So, Cena is leaving for a while after beating Brock ? Where does that leaves Brock ?

[El-P]

Just watched Brock vs Cena. Well, retarded finish aside (from a booking standpoint, not a work standpoint), this was awesome. Haven't had so much fun watching a WWE matches in ages. Brock is just on another planet as far as presence and charisma. Put him next to a supposed ass-kicker like Orton, who always looked fake and lame as hell to me, it's just day and night. Cena did his part about perfectly, since he's much better at selling rather than on offense, this match was pretty much designed to make him shine. The bump Lesnar took over the third rope was ridiculous, he could have killed himself. Loved the laughing part. Brock looked like a freaking monster, and a great classic heel. 15 years after Ken Shamrock, they have figured out how to book a UFC fighter (well, as far as working goes). Great stuff from start to finish.

I don't feel a heel turn at all from the post match promo, which was good but at this point the "shooty" aspect is clearly passé (oh, I'm not supposed to talk).

Still, that felt like a match for a major PPV, not following WM. Hopefully Brock never works on TV unless he just kills someone from time to time. He should be saved for PPV only.

[MikeCampbell]

The guys I was watching with saw Cena clearly mouth to one of the doctors "my left arm is fucked" and if you watch while he's celebrating and cutting his promo, it was swollen up huge and he was barely moving it. I'm thinking his promo about being gone for a bit is because he knows he's badly hurt and will be out for some time.

[Loss]

Anyone watch this in the presence of super casual fans? I'm curious what the masses thought of a main event that sounds like it was worked in a different style.

[El-P]

I'm thinking his promo about being gone for a bit is because he knows he's badly hurt and will be out for some time.

If that's the case, then it's *really* fucking retarded. The guy is leaving for a while, you get your monster from UFC destroy him, oh my god, Lesnar killed Cena and drove him out of action for months. Big comeback, build to big match, Cena wins. $$$$. Seriously, the WWE can't book for shit anymore. They fucked CM Punk's big angle last year the same way.

[Loss]

WWE is going through a weird transition at the moment and I'm curious if anyone has picked up on it. Fans are too smart now and see too many things coming. WWE can't be 100% reactive to fan whims and has to whet appetites for things they can deliver as much as they give people what they want. The puppets become the ones pulling the strings over time, and that's anathema to everything wrestling has ever been. A lot of the old tricks just don't work anymore because even casual fans are a little too knowledgeable of wrestling's tropes and booking patterns.

 

It's a balancing act. I think a lot of the recent head scratchers in match results, right or wrong, can be attributed to Vince trying to stay a step ahead of the audience. There have been some mistakes, but I think that's the general idea, and we're getting some experimentation. WWE is trying to stay smarter than their audience, which is a challenge when wrestling is so overexposed.

 

Yes, the predictable, safe route might have been the best route here, but I can understand how a wrestling promoter would see doing something that everyone expects to see and has predicted in advance as not the most desirable direction to go. I don't think the idea of a wrestling promotion is to give fans everything they decide they want independently -- rather, it's to make them want certain things that they are capable of delivering, then pay it off at the right moment.

 

I also think the biggest challenge in booking pro wrestling - just from what I have observed as a fan through the years - is not in figuring out the right thing to do. That's usually the easy part. Instead, it's in satisfying the need of those building the angles to feel like they've done something creative/meaningful/original/clever/profound/that keeps morale up/that makes everyone happy/that surprises people/whatever else.

 

I'm rambling, and I'm not really doing it to defend WWE's decision to have Lesnar lose his first big match, as much as I am trying to explain what I see as some of the challenges any promoter presenting pro wrestling in 2012 faces. Am I making any sense? I feel like I'm on the cusp of a point that I'm not quite making.

[Loss]

Anyway, my point in that post was that I think that same mindset is part of the reason they wanted Cena to win. They are trying to win over those who boo him. I do think the Rock loss hurt Cena, and I think a second high profile loss in a row would have hurt him even more. It's why doing this match so soon probably wasn't the best idea. Brock could have gotten a win over someone in a better position to eat a few losses, while Cena could get a few big wins under his belt to bounce back from the WM loss so he enters the Brock match in a stronger position.

 

A lot of it is booking mess WWE themselves have created, but I don't envy the challenges of presenting wrestling that appeals to the masses in 2012, considering that significant, non-disposable demographics that the promotion *has to have* in order to thrive each want conflicting things.

[El-P]

To me it's not even a case of being "too smart". I mean, as a mark, I would be disapointed to see Cena win already, it would just kill a bit of the aura that Borck had before and during the match.

[Loss]

To me it's not even a case of being "too smart". I mean, as a mark, I would be disapointed to see Cena win already, it would just kill a bit of the aura that Borck had before and during the match.

Of course. Knowing that Cena has already lost a huge match that took him down a notch within the last month, and knowing that you'd like to try to get the fanbase more on the same page so he's getting cheered more, do you understand that this was a little more complex? Brock probably should have won, but could Cena withstand being squashed like that just after losing to Rock? Phil made the Hash/Ogawa comparison. We all know how that ended up for Hashimoto in the end.

[Al]

I think the loss may actually help business with Brock. Everyone buys him as a monster and a credible threat. They don't need to go an extra mile to get him over. But now he's beatable. Whereas before an experienced wrestling fan could say "yawn, he's going to win every match through the summer," now he might conceivably lose here and there. Which adds intrigue. Not to say it's necessarily the best decision, but it's certainly defensible.

[Slasher]

Whatever the Rock was able to withstand and win, Brock should have done so even more. That is my gripe.

[El-P]

Brock probably should have won, but could Cena withstand being squashed like that just after losing to Rock? Phil made the Hash/Ogawa comparison. We all know how that ended up for Hashimoto in the end.

Cena is the Man. He can lose especially if you build an über monster against him. That won't hurt him. The loss to The Rock was a special case : it was The Rock, it was at Mania in the Rock's hometown. No one would get hurt from losing there, especially when Cena rarely loses anyway.

Hash/Ogawa was another thing entirely, in a different context. First off, Ogawa couldn't work a lick. The matches sucked. And Has was already in a position where he needed to get rebuild, he wasn't on top anymore after the disastrous Sasaki reign. Winning the G1 CLimax in 98 was a step into rebuilding him. And Hash never got the great big revenge. Ogawa just squashed him in terrible matches.

[KrisZ]

Anyone watch this in the presence of super casual fans? I'm curious what the masses thought of a main event that sounds like it was worked in a different style.

I have had the same group of guys come over and watch PPV's for shit 10 years now and that match was maybe the only time where they actually thought shit was real. These guys aren't smarks they just watch the TV and ask me for news and shit but they know the deal and they were snookered in. A couple of the guys were screaming that Lesnar should be fired for destroying Cena like that and these guys aren't Cena fans.