Hulk Hogan's best matches

[jdw]

Anyway, my general thoughts on the "it's so ironic that my head is hurting" turn the thread has taken can probably best be summed up by...

 

 

If they're not interested in those things then too bad for them. There's no rule that says you have to like Hulk Hogan so why dumb it down? If you don't enjoy a match like Hogan vs. Bockwinkel then you're not a Hogan fan and probably never will be. I don't need some Fujiwara fanboy coming along and pointing out that Hogan's not like Fujiwara. Why would anyone want him to be like Fujiwara? I mean pretty much everything people criticise Hogan for are things I'm actively looking for in a match. I don't mind explaining Hogan to people who have a genuine interest in him, but I'm not gonna waste my time on people who think other wrestlers are inherently superior.

 

And...

 

If it were a thread for people who are trying to get into Hogan I'd be all for it, but that's a very different set of match recommendations than Hogan for people who don't like him.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

What about the Arn match where he jobs?

[ohtani's jacket]

It doesn't matter if André Vs. Hogan is going to be a shit fest of a match. People want to see if André can be beaten. People want to see if The Hulkster can body slam this monster. Those 93,000 people didn't buy tickets because they wanted to see work rate.

Yeah, but Hogan fans will say things like, "look at how he timed that atomic drop on Bobby Heenan to get the maximum reaction from the crowd, that was so good" when all it was was an atomic drop and not timed particularly well. Personally, I think he was too tall with too much muscle mass to be a good worker. Others might argue that he moved well in the ring, but I've never seen it.

[Matt D]

Has anyone ever pointed out specific things that Hogan did like that?

 

I'd be really curious in reading that level of in depth analysis of him. I think for decades our community disregarded him as a rule, and would NEVER do that, just based on his push, his lack of moves, and the superman comebacks.

 

It wasn't "against the rules" to deep analyze Hogan matches, but I think it was more along the lines of "just unthinkable." No one would even consider doing it.

[Victator]

Anyway, my general thoughts on the "it's so ironic that my head is hurting"

How is it ironic?

[Johnny Sorrow]

What OJ is arguing makes sense, which is that Hogan's popularity didn't have much to do with his talent.

Getting over and holding a crowd in the palm of your hand is talent.

[Ronnie]

I think my number five Hogan match is vs Lanny Poffo on SNME. A great performance from Hulk, because it all came down to him knowing exactly how much offense to give a guy like Poffo. Who was so low on the card, it was a tricky thing to pull off.

I'd never seen that before - thanks for that! My exposure to the Genius is limited to his run as a manager and the odd match of Leaping Lanny flinging his frisbees into the crowd via YouTube. Not having an idea of how the character of the Genius would translate into a wrestling match, and one which was broadcast nationally at that, meant that I really got a kick out of watching how that played out just now. Even better was that I didn't know what the result was going to be (well, "didn't know that the result was not going to be the one I expected" is a fairer summary), so that made for a particularly pleasant surprise.

 

I think that this was probably the most fun I've had watching wrestling all year. My attention span has shrunk to nothing so I never got particularly invested in the notable WWE matches of the recent past, whereas the fact that this was all wrapped up in ten minutes and was absolutely fresh to me meant that I was glued to it from start to finish. I might just go back and rewatch it right now

[jdw]

Anyway, my general thoughts on the "it's so ironic that my head is hurting"

How is it ironic?

 

I'm guessing you didn't click on the links.

 

John

[Loss]

Just watched Hogan vs Flair from Bash at the Beach '94 and it should be in this discussion. At this point, I think it's the best match I've ever seen involving Hogan.

 

This is a surprisingly GREAT (yes, GREAT!) match. Extremely well laid out, to a point that you can tell some things were practiced meticulously, but it still feels organic. The match layout is as big and grandiose as you expect Flair vs Hogan on a first meeting (work with me) to be.

 

Most Flair matches are Flair matches. This is not a Ric Flair match. This is a Hulk Hogan match. Ric Flair simply the heel, Hulk Hogan's opponent. He's a guy playing a role. If you're a Flair fan like me, but you can get past that, it's a lot easier to enjoy this match. To Flair's credit, he takes that role about as far as it can go. But this isn't something that resembles his typical layout.

 

Anyone who bought this show and paid to see Hogan vs Flair couldn't have left disappointed -- unless they were Flair fans who wanted him to kick Hogan's ass. But in terms of delivering a satisfying match that seemed like a big deal, in terms of Hogan looking relevant and like a guy that could still go, this did everything it needed to do. I liked it way more than I expected.

[flyonthewall2983]

I do wish we had this from a Superstars taping though:

WWF @ Amarillo, TX - Civic Center - January 28, 1992

WWF Superstars taping:

Hulk Hogan & Randy Savage defeated Jake Roberts & the Berzerker (sub. for the Undertaker)

The body language between Hulk and Randy here would have been interesting to watch, considering how badly their friendship had deteriorated a year later. It must have been really icy even then because Hulk and Randy were in the Royal Rumble match around a week before this match, and in the ring for quite a bit of the same time but probably didn't even look at each other.

[Matt D]

Just watched Hogan vs Flair from Bash at the Beach '94 and it should be in this discussion. At this point, I think it's the best match I've ever seen involving Hogan.

 

This is a surprisingly GREAT (yes, GREAT!) match. Extremely well laid out, to a point that you can tell some things were practiced meticulously, but it still feels organic. The match layout is as big and grandiose as you expect Flair vs Hogan on a first meeting (work with me) to be.

 

Most Flair matches are Flair matches. This is not a Ric Flair match. This is a Hulk Hogan match. Ric Flair simply the heel, Hulk Hogan's opponent. He's a guy playing a role. If you're a Flair fan like me, but you can get past that, it's a lot easier to enjoy this match. To Flair's credit, he takes that role about as far as it can go. But this isn't something that resembles his typical layout.

 

Anyone who bought this show and paid to see Hogan vs Flair couldn't have left disappointed -- unless they were Flair fans who wanted him to kick Hogan's ass. But in terms of delivering a satisfying match that seemed like a big deal, in terms of Hogan looking relevant and like a guy that could still go, this did everything it needed to do. I liked it way more than I expected.

How do you feel about the 12-29-91 Hogan/Flair match?

[Johnny Guitar]

Just watched Hogan vs Flair from Bash at the Beach '94 and it should be in this discussion. At this point, I think it's the best match I've ever seen involving Hogan.

 

This is a surprisingly GREAT (yes, GREAT!) match. Extremely well laid out, to a point that you can tell some things were practiced meticulously, but it still feels organic. The match layout is as big and grandiose as you expect Flair vs Hogan on a first meeting (work with me) to be.

 

Most Flair matches are Flair matches. This is not a Ric Flair match. This is a Hulk Hogan match. Ric Flair simply the heel, Hulk Hogan's opponent. He's a guy playing a role. If you're a Flair fan like me, but you can get past that, it's a lot easier to enjoy this match. To Flair's credit, he takes that role about as far as it can go. But this isn't something that resembles his typical layout.

 

Anyone who bought this show and paid to see Hogan vs Flair couldn't have left disappointed -- unless they were Flair fans who wanted him to kick Hogan's ass. But in terms of delivering a satisfying match that seemed like a big deal, in terms of Hogan looking relevant and like a guy that could still go, this did everything it needed to do. I liked it way more than I expected.

I was in full on annoying smart mark teenager mode when this match happened. Didn't want to see him in WCW, WWF, New japan or anywhere. I just wanted him too fuck off and never come back.

 

I don't think the match is GREAT. But I remember being shocked that i liked it.

 

Because WCW was abit more workratey and there were guys that worked different styles, Vader, Austin & Regal, and Hogan was older. I thought that he would have benefited himself and the company if he'd shown abit of ass at least the beginning. And realised that he had to step up. and not really lost anything in the process.

 

Some combination of New Japan Hogan and "Humble" Hogan 2002. Would have probably smoothed over alot of people. Both the smarks and the traditional WCW fanbase

[Matt D]

I never gave Hogan any credit as a kid. Never. I remember watching The UNREAL story of Professional Wrestling on A&E as a teenager and hearing one of the old timers say that he only knew three moves and probably shouted "Thank you!" at the TV.

 

But I probably saw Hogan vs Giant RIGHT after the heel turn a few years after it happened and while I didn't love the match I did love Hogan's chickenshit heel performance. He was holding it in for years and you could tell.

[jdw]

God did I hate that Hogan-Flair at the time. I like Hogan a hell of a lot more now than back then, but I'd be really surprised if I like it now.

 

John

[JerryvonKramer]

The Bash match, which was a Hogan match as noted, was much much better than the Havoc match -- that was a Flair match and had the overall effect of making it seem like Hogan was treating Flair like a jobber.

 

In general, I don't like Hogan matches when he's on offense 90% of the time. Hogan's best attribute is his selling.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I actually think Hogan is way better at offense than he is at selling. I think we can all agree that Hogan couldnt bump worth a shit. It seems like he was physically incapable. This stands out as the number one reason why his matches are not held to the same standard.

 

 

So I watched Backlund vs Hogan the other day (you can find my thoughts on the match in the Bob Backlund thread) and got me thinking if there was ever a better Hogan match. The only two matches that came to mind were both from WCW (Flair BATB '94 and Vader SB V). I thought that was downright weird. I really started racking my brain about his WWF run. There is the Desert Storm match with Slaughter that I think could be his best, but I have not seen the full thing. Hogan/Savage always feels like a good pairing that could never break out have a transcendent classic match, but there have been a couple matches in Boston ('86 & '89) that get pimped that I have not seen. As is, I would say their January '85 MSG match is my favorite of their series. Wrestlemania V has such an incredible angle, but I don't feel like the hate is at the fever pitch that it should have been at (especially since I know Savage can get to that level). I like Hogan/Warrior quite a bit, but I would have to watch it again. I need to watch the Orndorff and Bockwinkel matches again, but as is I would say the Backlund match from 1980 is his best match.

 

I want to focus on his first reign because it is so long and seemed to be provide with such slim pickings of classics. That being said, I do want to get back to Backlund, Crockett and All Japan so I don't know how long this little survey of Hogan matches will go. My first opponent choice will Harley Race. The way I see Race is like a supped up Mr. Perfect, bumps just as well, but with wicked offense.

 

Hulk Hogan/Roddy Piper vs Heenan Family (Mr. Wonderful/Harley Race)

 

Let me get this out of the way early, Harley Race looks foolish in his "King" regalia, but everyone needs a gimmick. The face target Harley's arm with quick tags. The quick tags work on two levels by isolating Race and building trust between two former bitter rivals (Piper and Hogan play up each tag with a staredown). Race sends Piper into Wonderful's knee and hits the first big move of the match, a belly-to-belly. Orndorff looks content to garner heat and grind it out. Harley aims to impress with his powerslam and kneedrop. I like Piper as a face in peril because he is so scrappy and dogged. It is a fun take on the babyface in peril. Hogan is annoying on the apron. Hogan cleans house and eventually a heel miscommunication leads to Piper picking up the win. It was a fun little inoffensive match where Race and Piper looked like the best workers.

 

WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Harley Race MSG 5/87

 

This match was a total clusterfuck, but it was still entertaining. Hogan and Race seemed to have a hard time figuring out how they wanted to structure the match. Hogan was at his worst about turning his selling on/off. This match exposed Hogan as only having two discrete conditions: offensive superman and nearly dead mortal. He was overselling right off the bat and would quickly turn it off. Race, for his part, was no better as he was flip-flopping between ridiculous bumps and weak offense (punches, stomps and chinlock). The bumps were pretty spectacular and definitely the best part of the match. The first bump where he had landed belly first on the apron and sprung backward into chairs and the guardrail was quite good. The match finally got going when Race cut off the Hulk Up with a nasty headbutt, which Hogan bladed off of (maybe the hardway?). Race missed a diving headbutt and Hogan rolls him up for 3. Race attacks him post-match to set up the return bout. I know it sounds like I was being harsh about the match, but there really was not anything interesting besides the Race bumps. It was Hogan by the numbers, but with Race bumping better than most.

 

WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Harley Race MSG 6/87 Texas Death Match

 

Great match! Hogan/Race is never going to be a masterpiece, but this is a huge improvement. Hogan is all dressed up and raring to go. He throws Race all around the ringside area and chokes him with his tape, which is punctuated by popping Race in the head with a chair and the cushion pops out. So Race is left wearing the chair around his neck in a cool visual. Already, this is way better than the Backlund/Muraco '83 Texas Death Match snorefest. Race takes over with a well-placed low blow. Race is out to throw out all his offense: headbutts, a piledriver and a gutwrench suplex. Hogan irish whips Race to the outside, who flies outta the ring. I am still amazed a 44 year old could take these bumps. Hogan gets distracted by the Brain and Race sends him into the post. Of course, with Hogan prone lying on that cold concrete, I mean how could Harely resist. Yep, you guessed it Harley eats concrete. Harley when will you learn. Here comes Hogan with chairshots, ring post and piston punches. The biggest flaw of the match is that Race just decides that Hogan needs to eat a piledriver on the floor. Another low blow is all I am asking to set up that spot. Race brings him back in and hits him with the belt. Once again, Hogan is just lying their prone on that mat, I mean how could Harley resist. Oh, Harley! He eats title belt for his troubles and Hogan doesn't even drop a leg, but collects his victory.

 

This was bell-to-bell action with Harley and Hogan, I ain't gonna complain, but to quote Joe Walsh, sometimes I still do. Hogan hit overdrive on his selling kind of early and Harley did have one rushed transition in order to get to the finish. In terms of a heated Hogan sprint, besides the early Savage matches, I don't think you will find a better. This is easily one of my new favorite Hogan matches and one of the best matches from the height of Hulkamania.

 

Hulk Hogan vs Harley Race 3/88 SNME

 

This is right after the infamous twin Hebner-Andre-DiBiase screwjob, but before Wrestlemania IV. Since Race was already used around the horn might as well squeeze every bit out of him and have him job on national TV. That is really smart booking if you ask me. This match suffers from compression issues and trying to get over a storyline that doesnt concern Harley Race. Hogan comes out hot, but it doesnt feel the same. In the first match, it felt like he was vengeful against Harley Race. In this match, it feels like Race is not at his level and Hogan is just venting his frustration. Hogan no-sells a bunch of headbutts (I am debating whether that is worse than his overselling of them). Race's bumping and selling is even too cartoonish for me as he looks like a Popeye opponent selling an uppercut (even though he is being hit by overhand rights). Hogan's rulebreaking is way too much and The Body doesn't miss a beat to point it out. Everything is really heated, but it just isnt as fun as the last match. Race takes over after Hogan is distracted by the Brain. Race is wicked excited to get his stuff in now as he hits a falling headbutt, belly-to-belly, kneedrop and a piledriver. Finally Race feels like he has him and he sets him up on a table to the outside. Hogan is laying prone on that sweet wood and Race was going to drive him through it. I mean after all, third time is the charm. Alas, we all know how this story ends. In fact, that is the bump that apparently fucked up Harley pretty badly as he went abdomen first into the table. He left a pretty good impression into it and it was a total holy shit bump, but Harley if only you could have left well enough alone.

 

What the fuck? So Harley no-sells what I believe is a legit injury because he is all-man and hits a diving headbutt on Hogan in the ring. What? Call me crazy, but that seems like a waste of a really good bump. Kick out -> Hulk Up. Besides the ridiculous brainfart not to have the table bump be the momentum swing spot this was a perfectly fun little match, but nothing on the level of the previous match.

 

So far, Backlund/Hogan remains in my No. 1 spot, but I will say Hogan's selling in these 4 matches was very discrete. Either he was feeling superhuman or he was on his death bed. I know there are matches where he does a better job, but that is definitely a weakness that he didnt modulate his selling better. He still couldnt bump worth a shit. I actually like Hogan's offense. The best part of Hogan matches is they dont overstay their welcome. His matches are like the punk rock songs of wrestling. Too bad, I happen to be a guy who likes guitar solos.

[Dylan Waco]

My favorite Hogan match might be 1/19/87 v. Kamala

 

Excellent match. On first watch it felt like the best Kamala match I've ever seen and a top five Hogan match. Both guys are just excellent at their role here. Kamala ambushing Hogan and belting him out the gate was awesome and all of Kamala's offense came across really violent, but also fitting his gimmick. I also loved the way both guys sold in this. Hogan was great with his visual reaction on the missed elbow and Kamala was great when he tumbled to the floor and with his body language on the big slam spot. Both guys were just milking the shit out of everything here as this had minimal weaponry by modern standards, but the set up for everything was so fucking awesome that it felt like the biggest thing in the World. My only minor complaint would be that I actual thought this could have gone on another three or four minutes. Still an awesome match.

[PeteF3]

Is that the no-holds-barred match from MSG (w/ Hogan in Kamala paint) or the Spectrum match with Orndorff disguised as Kimchee?

 

The NHB match was everything you'd expect out of Hogan/Kamala and more. It's kind of a throwaway spot, but the injured and limp Hogan dragging himself away from the corner as Kamala is climbing up for the top-rope splash is one of my favorite sells Hogan has done.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

I just watched the BATB Flair match and, while I enjoyed it a fair bit, it struck me more as a masterpiece in Hogan establishing himself as better than Flair in every way than a truly great match.

 

In the Bock/Hogan matches I've seen, I always felt that Bock gave way too much to Hogan. He just looked like some lucky jobber in there most of the time.

[Superstar Sleeze]

This is why I love this forum, I would have never thought to check out Hogan/Kamala and now I just got to see it.

 

WWF World Heavyweight Champion Hulk Hogan vs Terry Funk 1/4/86 SNME

 

I think it is pretty safe to assume that the house show matches are better. That being said this is a fun 8 minute TV match where Funk sells for Hogan in his unique dazed way much better than Harley did in his national broadcast. Early on, a lot of Hogan offense sends Funk sprawling over the ropes and Funk does a great job getting over the middle aged and crazy. Hogan is ON tonight with just a lot of energy. Owing to Dylan's point that Funk matches usually includes a spot you have never seen point, on the drop down-criss cross, Hogan steps on Funk on each pass in a really neat pass. Funk does the furniture toss gimmick, which I love. In a nice sequence, Funk low blows Hogan and goes to the top to capitalize and Hogan shakes the top rope crotching Funk on the ropes. Some timely distraction from the Mouth of the South, leads to Funk choking Hogan with his tape. Piledriver by Funk (they need to bring the piledriver back) gets only 2. Hulk-up ->Branding Iron cutoff ->Clothesline finishes.

 

In the Race match you get the wicked table bump and a little bit more heel offense. In this match, you get Terry Funk making Hulk Hogan look like a million bucks with smaller, more plentiful bumps and some fun no good cheating. I like Hogan's punches and think they rate in the upper tier of good worked punches. I think this match is a better representation by Hogan was such a phenomenon.

[jdw]

Is that the no-holds-barred match from MSG (w/ Hogan in Kamala paint) or the Spectrum match with Orndorff disguised as Kimchee?

 

The NHB match was everything you'd expect out of Hogan/Kamala and more. It's kind of a throwaway spot, but the injured and limp Hogan dragging himself away from the corner as Kamala is climbing up for the top-rope splash is one of my favorite sells Hogan has done.

1/19/87 is that MSG NHB/No DQ match.

 

The Spectrum with Kimdorff is 2/14/87, setting up Hogan & Piper vs Kamala & Orndorff on the next show. It's kind of funny that Hogan didn't get the pin on Kamala in either the Spectrum singles or the Spectrum tag. One singles match in Boston with the pin, two singles matches in MSG with the pin in the second. Three singles in Toronto, with Kamala getting the DQ win in the middle NHB/No DQ match to set up the blow off cage match.

[Steve Gennarelli]

Hogan vs. Stan Hansen in '91 or '92 in Japan was great.

 

Him carrying Anabolic to his best ever match, was probably Hogan's masterpiece though. WMVI

[JerryvonKramer]

I actually think Hogan is way better at offense than he is at selling. I think we can all agree that Hogan couldnt bump worth a shit. It seems like he was physically incapable. This stands out as the number one reason why his matches are not held to the same standard.

I can't agree with this, but I will introduce an element of nuance here after watching his AWA stuff:

 

I think there are two slightly different versions of Hogan -- the AWA and early WWF guy, who was wild and always full of fire, and the red and yellow WWF Hogan post-86.

 

I think the earlier version has really good offense, a wider range of moves, and more viciousness, but he is not as good as selling he would become. He worked in a much more dominant manner where the heel control segement is severely truncated.

 

The red and yellow version slowed down and limited his offense to a small formula, but learned how to be a very sympathetic babyface and gave heels longer control segments so that the comeback would mean something. I think selling is more than just taking bumps. Red and yellow Hogan is great at taking a heel beatdown or at taking a submission hold and drawing the sympathy of the crowd. If you don't think he is, I'd like to see the argument.

[Johnny Sorrow]

I actually think Hogan is way better at offense than he is at selling. I think we can all agree that Hogan couldnt bump worth a shit. It seems like he was physically incapable. This stands out as the number one reason why his matches are not held to the same standard.

I can't agree with this, but I will introduce an element of nuance here after watching his AWA stuff:

 

I think there are two slightly different versions of Hogan -- the AWA and early WWF guy, who was wild and always full of fire, and the red and yellow WWF Hogan post-86.

 

I think the earlier version has really good offense, a wider range of moves, and more viciousness, but he is not as good as selling he would become. He worked in a much more dominant manner where the heel control segement is severely truncated.

 

The red and yellow version slowed down and limited his offense to a small formula, but learned how to be a very sympathetic babyface and gave heels longer control segments so that the comeback would mean something. I think selling is more than just taking bumps. Red and yellow Hogan is great at taking a heel beatdown or at taking a submission hold and drawing the sympathy of the crowd. If you don't think he is, I'd like to see the argument.

 

Early WWF Hogan as champ matches usually had him selling like a motherfucker. By the time he'd Hulk up he had the shit kicked out of him and was more often than not covered in blood.

[ohtani's jacket]

I'm not sure that post-86 is the right time frame. It seems like '88 is the year he started doing the same schtick in every match.