The non-finisher finish

[Mr Wrestling X]

Watching the Punk/Kane/Bryan match last night, where Bryan got the win after a well placed kick, it got me thinking about how you rarely see a straightforward match (one that doesn't end in a DQ/count out/no contest, etc) in WWE that doesn't end with one wrestler hitting his/her finisher or locking on their submission finisher en-route to the pinfall or submission victory.

 

When done well, a sudden move out of nowhere and a successful pinfall can be the icing on the cake for a particularly intense match, such as the numerous occasions that Ric Flair would get an inside cradle out of no where after a fearsome battle, or the many wrestlers who have out-maneuvered their opponents and a final chain wrestling battle to hit a bridging suplex or similar move for the victory.

 

As for actual examples, one of my favourites has to be Ric Flair taking out Vader's leg and rolling him up to take the win at Starrcade 1993 after a real battle where Flair couldn't quite build lasting momentum.

 

So, what examples have you?

[Loss]

I really think a lot of those changes are the result of increased marketing. If a wrestler has a t-shirt that has their finisher on it, or there are video games or posters where they're doing it, they probably consider it part of the wrestler's personal brand and feel the need to have them to do it every match. I think I've said before that the idea of every wrestler having to have a finisher has always felt too comic book-like for my tastes. I prefer wrestlers who have 3-4 signature spots that are over and can end a match.

 

The inside cradle is a great move we don't see enough of anymore. I personally like flash pins, especially in really competitive matches where the idea is to put someone over, but not so decisively that you've closed the door to rematches. The more things a wrestler can do that people buy as a finish, the better, as wrestling where the audience only pops for entrance music and finisher attempts always makes me sad.

[Log]

I think Bret was always really good at coming up with creative ways to win without the Sharpshooter. Rolling up Piper out of the sleeper, playing possum on Diesel and getting the small package, beating Austin with the Piper finish, etc.

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

Bret was really good at this. It seems like more of his high profile wins were by alternative means to the Sharpshooter, whereas the Sharpshooter was the move he'd use to put away opponents in more routine matches. There's the push off the turnbuckle finish he used against Piper and Austin which was always one of my favourites, he beat Diesel with a small package for his third world championship, and I also liked the finish against Hakushi where he countered a back suplex into a victory roll.

 

I liked how Fujinami had a plethora of roll ups he used to win matches, to the point that every time he tried one in a match you brought it as a nearfall.

 

What I don't like about current wrestling (WWE at least), which kinda ties in, is that there is no hierarchy in place in terms of what punishment a wrestler can take. It's like, all moves have just about the same effect on every opponent, and it shouldn't be that way. If Sheamus hit Tyson Kidd with the White Noise, Kidd would probably kick out at 2, just because the match has to end with the Brogue Kick (I know Sheamus doesn't go for covers off the White Noise- just an example). I suppose Undertaker is someone who used his signature moves well, in that there was a certain level of guy that he'd put away with a chokeslam, a certain level who you knew wasn't going to kick out of a Last Ride, and then in the really big matches against the toughest opponents, only the Tombstone would suffice.

[Frankensteiner]

I agree Bret was really good at this. In addition to the examples mentioned, really liked the roll-up finish against Bigelow and the finish to the TV match against Backlund. I think Mysterio is also pretty good at doing this today.

 

Flair's finishes were always trash. They were either poorly built to or the execution was off.

[JerryvonKramer]

DiBiase against Bret in that Survivor Series

[Jingus]

The more things a wrestler can do that people buy as a finish, the better, as wrestling where the audience only pops for entrance music and finisher attempts always makes me sad.

Yeah. It's more and more common for the crowd to be dead for near-fall attempt nowadays, and why shouldn't they be? Even the six-year-olds in the audience know that the fight won't end until Voltron goes ahead and Forms Blazing Sword, because anything less never gets the job done.

[FLIK]

Wait, 6 year olds these days know who Voltron is?

[Jingus]

Wait, 6 year olds these days know who Voltron is?

No, but you do and so you understand my meaning.

[Grimmas]

Bret really was the king of finishes. Most matches had a unique and interesting finish. I can't think of too many of his big matches that didn't have a unique finish. I don't know how much of that was Pat Patterson or how much of that was Bret.

 

Part of the shame of Vince screwing Bret was that Bret didn't end up in creative and helping to put matches together after his in ring career ended.

[jdw]

So, what examples have you?

Liz's shoe = Flair then Arn pin Hogan. From Graham's site:

 

WCW @ Canton, OH - Civic Center - January 29, 1996

Monday Nitro: Ric Flair (w/ Jimmy Hart) pinned Hulk Hogan (w/ Elizabeth) at around the 13-minute mark after hitting Hogan in the eye with one of Elizabeth's high heel shoes, stolen by Hart and Arn Anderson, who appeared ringside during the final moments of the contest

 

WCW @ Tampa, FL - Florida State Fair - February 12, 1996

Monday Nitro: Arn Anderson (w/ Woman) pinned Hulk Hogan at 9:15 after hitting Hogan in the eye with Miss Elizabeth's high heel shoe after Woman threw powder into Hogan's face

I mean... that was fucking great.

 

John

[Coffey]

I always remember the most random examples. I distinctly remember Triple H beating Jeff Hardy, I believe on a RAW, by using an old school style Sleeper Hold. Passed him out & got the submission victory.

 

Batista's clothesline was established for awhile too. I think he even stretcher jobbed Jericho with it once.

[Slasher]

I may be wrong but didn't Jericho win with the enziguri once or twice in WWE too?

[Al]

Agree with the others about Bret. Against Owen at Wrestlemania, against Bulldog at Summerslam. They're great finishes because the object is ultimately to pin the opponent. It was eternally frustrating to me to watch a match like HHH/Undertaker at Wrestlemania and scream, "why don't you try a damn rollup."

[Dylan Waco]

I am obviously in a distinct minority here, but I was always annoyed by how often Bret matches had non-definitive finishes. That's not to say they weren't great finishes (well some of them). I just thought it was too often

[Coffey]

I actually hate small package/school boy/roll-up finishes. Especially after a long match (like Savage/Steamboat). It feels like a fucking rip-off to me.

[NintendoLogic]

With Bret, it was largely a necessity since he didn't have an established non-submission finisher and Vince didn't want his top guys tapping out. Also, the way his finishes built off previous matches was pretty notable. He beats Bigelow at KOTR with a victory roll, but Owen blocks it and gets the pin of his own. Bulldog beats Bret at Summerslam by blocking a sunset flip, Ramon tries to do the same thing at the Rumble, but Bret manages to roll through. I like things that make it seem like wrestlers are scouting their opponents.

[Loss]

It depends on the context. I think it's a fairly lousy way to end a feud, but I like it if there are going to be rematches and they are selling the idea that the winner got lucky.

[Mad Dog]

A lot of Flair's title losses were at the hands of non-finishers:

 

Sting and Steamboat rolled him up when he was trying to apply the Figure Four Leglock.

Ron Garvin got him with a sunset flip off the top rope.

Dusty Rhodes got him with an inside cradle.

Kerry Von Erich used a backslide.

[Jingus]

I actually hate small package/school boy/roll-up finishes. Especially after a long match (like Savage/Steamboat). It feels like a fucking rip-off to me.

In Savage/Steamboat it made sense; Steamboat usually won his matches with roll-ups, and it was the perfect climax to that amazing series of pins and reversals (which has sadly been ripped off by every junior since then, with infinitely less effect).

 

But in general, especially nowadays, you're right. They're a cheap way to have someone win without actually putting anyone over. I remember getting absolutely enraged one time at an episode of Impact where literally every single pinfall was some form of roll-up, and it made everything feel so pointless.

 

And from personal experience, I couldn't begin to count the number of times that a veteran was booked to lose to a young guy, and basically called the match to that it was almost a squash until he suddenly got rolled up at the end. Then they could say "Well, I put the kid over, didn't I?" despite having made the winner look like garbage.

 

With Bret, it was largely a necessity since he didn't have an established non-submission finisher and Vince didn't want his top guys tapping out.

I wonder why Vince never just told Bret to come up with a non-submission finisher and establish it? Wouldn't have been hard, wouldn't have taken long. Kinda weird to be all the way into the 90s and still have a champion whose main event finish is a roll-up.

 

It depends on the context. I think it's a fairly lousy way to end a feud, but I like it if there are going to be rematches and they are selling the idea that the winner got lucky.

Yeah. Worked like a charm for Umaga's first loss to Cena, setting them up for that epic Rumble rematch.

 

A lot of Flair's title losses were at the hands of non-finishers:

Flair's title wins tended to involve non-finishers, too. Was there ever a less-protected hold than his figure-four leglock? He hardly ever beat anybody important with that move.

[Mad Dog]

Does Harley Race winning the title off of Terry Funk with the Indian Deathlock count? He used the move as a signature hold but I don't recall him winning many matches with the move.

[khawk20]

Flair's title wins tended to involve non-finishers, too. Was there ever a less-protected hold than his figure-four leglock? He hardly ever beat anybody important with that move.

Regaining the title from Dusty Rhodes with the Figure four stands out as one. I think he submitted Funk with it in their Clash I quit match, too.

 

..if there are only those two that I can think of, your point is indeed a good one.

[artDDP]

I really think a lot of those changes are the result of increased marketing. If a wrestler has a t-shirt that has their finisher on it, or there are video games or posters where they're doing it, they probably consider it part of the wrestler's personal brand and feel the need to have them to do it every match. I think I've said before that the idea of every wrestler having to have a finisher has always felt too comic book-like for my tastes. I prefer wrestlers who have 3-4 signature spots that are over and can end a match.

 

The inside cradle is a great move we don't see enough of anymore. I personally like flash pins, especially in really competitive matches where the idea is to put someone over, but not so decisively that you've closed the door to rematches. The more things a wrestler can do that people buy as a finish, the better, as wrestling where the audience only pops for entrance music and finisher attempts always makes me sad.

I agree with you on both points.

 

I always liked when a match ends without the established finishing move because the modern fan just waits for the big spot or interference. If it happened more often--and not just with those horrible fluke roll-ups--then fans wold pay more attention to the in-ring product.

 

As for the topic itself, I'm drawing a blank lol.

[Strummer]

I think Bret constantly winning matches with roll ups hurt his credibility at least slightly. I mean I went to house show summer of 95 and he beat Jean Pierre Laffite with a roll up! At a freaking house show. He really needed a non-submission finisher

[Dylan Waco]

I think Bret constantly winning matches with roll ups hurt his credibility at least slightly. I mean I went to house show summer of 95 and he beat Jean Pierre Laffite with a roll up! At a freaking house show. He really needed a non-submission finisher

This is sort of what I was getting at.

 

Artistically most of those Bret finishes were really good if not great.

 

Professionally? I'm not so sure. Seemed awful fluky for your champ/lead face to constantly be winning in a less than clear cut fashion against such a huge variety of people.