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Kenny Omega

New around these parts?

 

Roh had Monster Mafia (Josh Alexander and Ethan Page) both willing to sign and they choice not to because they wouldn't go to a pay to play training camp and that was before WWEvolve was snatching everyone up, they had Austin Aries come back for 1 show, had Willie Mack, AR Fox, Corey Holis, and Jonathan Gresham have "try-outs" that went nowhere, and worst of all they could have used Ricochet but chose not too. The problem isn't the talent getting stolen it's that ROH doesn't seem to see what talent they should be going after even when it's right in front of them.

 

 

 

, No , not new around here . I wish I was new , I would be a lot younger. Anyway you really did not understand and/ or read my post.

 

! . You high lighted Kenny Omega , suggesting that I did not know he had a previous run in ROH . . Yes , I know Omera worked in Roh before and had issues with Cary Silken . However , Silken sold to SBGI and Omega works for NJPW . SIlken is moot point now. Lo and Behold Kenny Omega returns to ROH for the Las Vegas PPV . If Randy Savage , Robert Fuller and Jimmy Golden agreed to work for Jerry Jarrett , anything is possible . Wrestling is a business , people only care about the money.

 

I am aware of the issues with Ethan Page and others . Austin Aries was just a one shot . I am also aware that Lucha Underground offer Ricochet services , but SBGI did not want to pay the booking fee . These things are just smaller issues that pop up in any business. I was talking about the overall ongoing trend of not acquiring talent in a timely manner .

 

I never said ROH was allowing talent to be stolen . I never used the words steal or stolen . You cannot steal human beings , people have free will they can work where ever they desire.

 

What I said that ROH was being outworked by NXT and Evolve as far as the obtaining new talent. ROH is not agressive in signing new talent , they drag their feet and let NXT or Evolve sign people that are right under their nose. It is more than just one or two cases, it is a ongoing issue.

 

SBGI just purchased the Tennis Channel for $ 350 million and they also. lost AJ Styles to the WWE just over $ 100,000 . Styles is not a mark for the business, all AJ cares about is money . SBGI could have easier beaten the WWE offer for Styles . Sinclair has millions in retained earnings . They are just not serious enough about growing ROH. Sinclair has the money to sigh any talent in the business,they just choose to take least expensive options.

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The Omega thing was meant more as joke poking fun at the situation, I knew that once NJPW started to push Omega ROH would be forced to grit and bear it when it came to bringing him back.

 

I guess my point is that while a guy like AJ Styles is gone and theoretically Sinclair could afford to keep him ROH could not because Sinclair sets ROH's budget at what they do and ROH has to accept that. SBG is the company of it's size not from making bad decisions with their money and flooding ROH with capital would be pointless for their bottom line.

 

The real issue isn't ROH is being out worked by NXT and Evolve in the money aspect but in the eye for talent aspect instead of worrying about who paid to come to their training camp and booking Punishment Martinez and Action Ortiz why not bring in guys like Gresham, Hollis, Mack, AR Fox, and Ricochet who are all proven to be good workers, have built in fan bases, and are currently in no danger of going to NXT or Evolve?

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The issue with ROH and Omega was what Omega did. He cancelled his ROH appearance saying that he was injured and unable to wrestle that weekend. In fact that weekend he had double booked himself in ROH and DDT. Rather than just saying he accidently double booked himself and a tour of Japan makes more than a weekend with ROH, he lied to the ROH people saying that he had to cancel because he was hurt. So I'm surprised he would ever be back in an ROH ring.

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There's photos going around on Twitter of a new set ROH is using that looks way more professional with screens along side the main one and a professional looking lighting rig. Perhaps Sinclair is seeing the value of adding a few bucks to the budget after all? Or could it be their deal with New Japan could be growing beyond talent sharing? It might be tinfoil hattish of me to think that there may be more than co-incidence that suddenly after two of New Japan's top guys go to WWE that ROH suddenly has the budget to upgrade their presentation and sign guys to contracts that were being used on both promotion's shows.

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The issue with ROH and Omega was what Omega did. He cancelled his ROH appearance saying that he was injured and unable to wrestle that weekend. In fact that weekend he had double booked himself in ROH and DDT. Rather than just saying he accidently double booked himself and a tour of Japan makes more than a weekend with ROH, he lied to the ROH people saying that he had to cancel because he was hurt. So I'm surprised he would ever be back in an ROH ring.

 

If they let Kenny King come back, and that fiasco was after ROH was bought by Sinclair, then they'll let anyone come back.

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It seems like accidentally-on-purpose double booking yourself would be pretty low on the list of things a company would never bring someone back for. Dude's probably in line for a top level push in New Japan, no way ROH would not take him back unless they found dead hookers in his trunk.

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The business side of ROH interests me and my man Luchaundead (thank you for your work on TWIW) hits on a couple things i'll throw some thoughts around.

 

ROH has a budget (and the Sinclair tennis thing is tough to stomach on the surface, although one has to assume given their business accumen and conservative nature, they aren't throwing that money away) and I'd imagine for something like the Top Prospects Tournament and the 8-man bracket they have $X amount of dollars to use on it. So while it's fun (and perfectly fine) to fantasy book the best unsigned eight indie workers in the US, they're filling in this bracket with guys like Beer City Bruiser or Colby Corino for $ purposes (a bonus here being the ongoing storyline; sidebar - how sick was that last ride powerbomb he took on the apron? that looked awful).

 

re: the budget, the upgraded presentation funding is interesting. Is this NJPW funded or a joint thing with SBG? That cost $$ which could be at the expense of roster signings.

 

Secondly, the camp thing. This is kind of a double-edged sword so I see why they're strict about it. The camps are $$ makers for their operation and let them get a look at the work ethic and talent of a bunch of guys up close. ROH has an avenue that few promotions have - TV exposure. So if they want guys to have gone through their camp first and they put an importance on these camps, it's hard to expect potential wrestlers to do that if other "new" guys are skipping the camp and getting signed directly. I get their model even though there are flaws when they're signing guys like....the All Night Express or Sabin, etc. Let's be honest - it isn't like those guys are drawing any more eyes to the product than others would. They don't move the meter for me at all.

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The inter workings of ROH business side really interest me as well. What exactly is ROH's deal if they make money do they keep it or does it go to SBGI are they limited only to the budget as in do they keep the money from the camps? If NJPW was open to helping ROH compete with WWE would that have to be authorized by SBGI corporate 1st? also ANX might not be a great example because they both actually were students from the original ROH school so they already "earned" their spot in ROH but, I do understand the idea you are trying to point out what if a guy like Lio Rush is now pushed high in the ToPT over guys who literally paid their dues what message does that send to not only guys like Will Farrara but also any new talent that might think about going to a camp.

 

And legit I thought Colby was dead.

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I can see both sides of this. I posted over a month ago about new talent they need to bring in & I completely share the frustration over the whole budget thing and the tryouts vs. bringing in known guys thing. Another thing to factor in is ROH books their stuff out pretty far in advance it seems. I remember seeing comments in the past saying that they can't just bring a guy in on a moment's notice if they have cards booked out for 3 months or whatever. Exceptions were made for guys like Shelley who they thought had a fanbase behind them. I think that ROH management is kind of in a bubble and they only see guys as established if they have been around a good while and been on TV for other groups. If you don't meet that criteria, I think that they see you all the same. If they brought in everyone that people wanted them to they would have overly long, bloated cards like the Gabe era where you had constant meaningless 4-ways etc. As thin as their roster seems already they still seem to run out of stuff to do with guys like Cedric and Ciampa, who got tired of it & left. So I'm not sure what the solution is but you would certainly think that they should have the money to use Fox, Callihan, Hero, etc. instead of bringing in no-names or continuing to use guys like Bruiser.

 

I think Delirious books it like it's NOAH or something where they largely have a set roster, you have to earn your way in, and guys there take YEARS to work their way up. Not sure that necessarily seems progressive in the fastly changing US landscape.

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also ANX might not be a great example because they both actually were students from the original ROH school so they already "earned" their spot in ROH but, I do understand the idea you are trying to point out what if a guy like Lio Rush is now pushed high in the ToPT over guys who literally paid their dues what message does that send to not only guys like Will Farrara but also any new talent that might think about going to a camp.

 

 

I kind of merged thoughts there and ANX is more part of their idea to spend money to book proven acts, who most likely don't draw much versus investing in younger talent. Shelley, Sabin, etc fit in here as well. Then on the flip side you have their camp prospects who have paid to play (so to speak). In my example, was stating more like if they signed Corey Hollis on his own - who never went to a camp. It kind of stunts the message that they want guys to go through the $300 weekend and maybe they don't get the turnout (although it seems like they usually max out the 25-person limit). So I get their model and position of essentially requiring this before getting a chance to compete.

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I saw Kongo Kong worked Moose in Nashville. I hope Kong is there as a full time fixture.

After finally watching the SCI not, that I wasn't already familiar with Kong just seeing him working with Moose, I'm really wondering if Kong would be a good fit as a full time ROH guy in fact he may be an Abbyesque "attraction" guy that really shouldn't have a full time run anywhere that said I would not mind seeing him in ROH more often especially if I can get Mark Briscoe trying to figure out what to do with him with the same look on his face my dog gets when I pretend to throw a tennis ball and she can't figure out where it went.

 

Yeah I see that it's really feeling weird though having an ROH product filled with older guys in the mid-card, almost hopeless young guys that don't work anywhere opening the shows, and then the very thin roster of stars on top of every show. But when it comes down to it it's about making money and if this is working I understand why they stick with this style. No company can get away with booking wrestling for the art of it and make it for a long period of time.

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  • 3 weeks later...

Interested in everyone's thoughts on the Punisher Martinez / Lio Rush match. Punisher was really booked here as indestructible - swatting away most of Rush's offense. I mean, the story was great and they worked out a really good match that built well to the big spots. It was just so different to see in a ROH ring, where there's a lot more give and take - size be damned.

 

They really screwed the bracket up as that had to be the final. There is literally no way Fury/Rush comes anywhere close to this.

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I loved that match Brad. It was a match where both guys got over which is harder to do than people realize. I'd be giving both of these men contracts. Martinez is a guy that they can get over really quick because of his size and look . Plus from the little I have seen , can work. Rush is another in a line of really good smaller sized workers who fits in on the roster like a glove.

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This Saturday's card in Philly looks pretty damn great to me.

 

ROH WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP
MATT SYDAL VS. JAY LETHAL ©
ADAM COLE & RODERICK STRONG VS. REDRAGON (BOBBY FISH & KYLE O'REILLY)
IWGP JUNIOR HEAVYWEIGHT CHAMPIONSHIP
KUSHIDA © vs ACH
SIX MAN TAG TEAM MATCH
JAY & MARK BRISCOE/CHEESEBURGER VS. WAR MACHINE (RAY ROWE & HANSON)/MOOSE W/ STOKELY HATHAWAY
TRIPLE THREAT TAG TEAM MATCH
YOUNG BUCKS (NICK & MATT JACKSON) VS. THE ADDICTION (CHRISTOPHER DANIELS & FRANKIE KAZARIAN) VS. MACHINE GUNS (ALEX SHELLEY & CHRIS SABIN)
WOH SIX WOMAN TAG TEAM MATCH
MANDY LEON, SUMIE SAKAI & JENNY ROSE VS. KYOKO KIMURA, VEDA SCOTT & TAELER HENDRIX
BJ WHITMER/CEDRIC ALEXANDER W/ VEDA SCOTT VS. VS. ADAM PAGE/JONATHAN GRESHAM
JOEY DADDIEGO VS. WILL FERRARA
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Really happy to see Gresham getting used by ROH more regularly.

 

Cole and Roddy are a pretty good tag team based on their match teaming in Progress and working as Mt Rushmore in PWG all 4 of the guys in that match are awesome could easily steal the show but, Lethal vs Sydal is nothing to sleep on either that's actually a pretty awesome card my only nit pick would be instead of the trios I'd have a 3-way tag with Moose-Burgers together.

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