Ring of Honor Wrestling

[Luchaundead]

 

The guy who yelled "Cheap Heat!" when Kaz made fun of Detroit stinks and is an awful creep.

Was he not telling the truth? Cheap heat is a dumb tactic to do when in the indies. Does it even work half of the time? Those guys showing up are people who are more sensitive to what the workers do to get what they want and generally more aware of it. Resorting to cheap heat for people paying 20 bucks to watch their favorite indy wrestlers aren't gonna go along with that crap I would think.

 

This thought process is essentially a race to the bottom, the idea that because you should expect the crowd to not go along with the basic constructs of wrestling that you then shouldn't even try to work as a professional wrestler will just push the crowd further down the road. There have always been fans that were "smart" to the business and had to make it known to the world so they could feel better about themselves but, in the parlance of the internet circa 2005, don't feed the trolls. If the wrestlers act like every fan is "that guy" then you are inviting more people to become just that and once we have a crowd of everyone being "that guy" the business is dead.

 

I strongly enjoy when ROH wrestlers and commentary go out of their way to stick to the old school shtick even Kevin Kelly constantly saying that is cost the boys a c-note every time they make a lewd obscenity or gesture. Even if I know it's probably not true if he sticks to it and acts as if I can find myself and other getting caught up in it to the point were yes I do believe that Kaz dislikes the fans enough to cost himself $100 (a drop in the bucket to this big time stars) just so he can tell us what he really thinks of us even if I agree with his opinion on Detroit.

[Slasher]

You can't be a heel without resorting to cheap heat? I am not saying there is no place for it but I just think it is extra lazy to do it on a local card because you don't want to put extra effort in garnering boos from fans that either knows you and respects you or doesn't understand from the get go that you are a heel that night.

[shoe]

 

 

Plus their is talks of going 2 hrs so they might be getting the women ready in case that happens.

I don't know if I'll be in the minority on this, but I prefer the one hour show format (without knowing what they'd do with 2 hours - granted). I totally get where talent is coming from with not getting to be on TV more than twice a month (tops), but I like having them spread out. It's a big deal when you get a Bucks match on TV. There's no overexposure there.

 

Maybe more importantly, if they did explore going to two hours, I'm curious how it logistically would work. Do they turn "Conquest Tour" shows into matches filmed for TV? Do they have to run more often, definitely overexposing themselves to their regular markets? (Philly as-is was Aftershock Tour before SummerSlam, Final Battle, a TV taping the next night, and now the 3/12 show). Would they expand locations - taking bigger venues because of the new setup anyway?

I think one hour is perfect . They'd need to add talent to go 2 hrs.

[Dewar]

You can't be a heel without resorting to cheap heat? I am not saying there is no place for it but I just think it is extra lazy to do it on a local card because you don't want to put extra effort in garnering boos from fans that either knows you and respects you or doesn't understand from the get go that you are a heel that night.

 

The card he made the Detroit comment on was taped in Las Vegas.

[Slasher]

Well I didn't know that. I don't know what the point was at all then...both for him to say that and for the fan to shout that.

[bradhindsight]

Overlooked due to Mania weekend (perhaps), thought the last ROH TV was the best in ring show this year:

 

http://placetobenation.com/ring-of-honor-tv-episode-237-recap/

[bradhindsight]

And tomorrow's is loaded with the tag title match, Kenny Omega vs ACH and the Fight Without Honor.

[sek69]

I loved Kevin Kelly "warning the affiliates" that the Fight Without Honor next week will be more violent than the usual ROH match. Little touches like that selling match stips always works with me.

[Johnny Sorrow]

God, I can't stand Kyle O'Reilly.

 

 

Fuck him and his stupid white boy swollen ear. That ReDragon vs Gedo and Okada match stunk.

[topropepodcast]

I for the most part really liked this week's episode. War Machine are a team that stands out for all the right reasons, and the tag was a nice showcase for them to hoss out.

 

I also thought Castle was fucking great in the main event. He showed fire and intensity and if ROH can't see how money he is, they're blind.

 

The Omega vs ACH match did nothing for me, but that's my usual response to Kenny Omega. He annoys me. And the fact that he looks like a buff Adam Sandler kind of adds to the goofiness of the overacting faces, looks that even John Cena would tell him to take down a notch.

[bradhindsight]

Castle was amazing but man Silas was tremendous as well. Great main event.

 

I totally dug Omega, even with that weird sequence where they were cosplaying The Rock and Stone Cold.

 

 

http://placetobenation.com/ring-of-honor-tv-episode-238-recap/

[shoe]

Kamaitachi coming in to work ACH is great news. Hope he gets to work in ROH a lot going forward.

[bradhindsight]

I've only barely been covering the Honor Rising shows since we have Musgrave's full reviews up. I dug the stuff with the guys around Tokyo, but these felt so flat almost three months later.

 

Anyone going to any of the Global Wars/War of the Worlds shows? The cards are finally announced - Toronto getting two HUGE singles matches in Okada/Sydal and O'Reilly/KUSHIDA.

 

http://placetobenation.com/ring-of-honor-tv-episode-241-recap/

[Grimmas]

I've only barely been covering the Honor Rising shows since we have Musgrave's full reviews up. I dug the stuff with the guys around Tokyo, but these felt so flat almost three months later.

 

Anyone going to any of the Global Wars/War of the Worlds shows? The cards are finally announced - Toronto getting two HUGE singles matches in Okada/Sydal and O'Reilly/KUSHIDA.

 

http://placetobenation.com/ring-of-honor-tv-episode-241-recap/

Musgrave and I will be in Toronto. O'Reilly/Kushida I am psyched about.

[bradhindsight]

^ I figured you two would be there, enjoy.

 

This week's preview for Global Wars was pretty well done. To introduce Cabana to the current ROH audience they end the show with a good portion of his match with Punk in August, 2005 (Punk's last match in ROH). The other preview pieces did a nice job to catch viewers up - showing finishes from the 14th anniversary as well as Supercard of Honor.

 

The one piece of this that drives me a little nuts is that Cabana/Lethal Night 2 SCOH exchange, where Cabana legit pins the champ with the worst looking roll-up ever. I thought at first i mis-saw it and they showed it again this week. He barely even holds his legs down, and then makes his goofy stare at him. Maybe that's his shtick, but that s-u-c-k-e-d. Worst ROH bit of the year, no way it's topped.

[Parties]

Dalton Castle vs. ACH vs. Roderick Strong vs. Adam Page (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Castle’s entrance may have been the highlight. Strong’s chops were good. Castle’s suplexes and power moves were really cool too, he looked to be killing dudes with those forearms. The big tope spot was awesome and props to Page for flipping in and lariat ACH in the process. Really nice finish as well.

Jushin Liger/Cheeseburger vs. The Addiction (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Loved the faces’ teamwork here. Finish was effectively creepy, I guess? Not a great or even particularly good match as the heels are pretty lame in their offense and mannerisms. The feud over who has the best Meltzer Driver is the very sort of thing Baron Corbin pledges to erase from our lives. Kind of a nothing bout.

 

War Machine vs. The Briscoes (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Fighting spirit moments here didn’t work for me. Well worked match but this being for the 9th title run for the Briscoes in ROH feels like the same old song. Everyone in this was fine and worked hard, but for me it lacked much drama or structure: I don’t know what story they were trying to tell beyond 2.9 counts and War Machine looking for their first win over the Briscoes.

[hammerva]

Well it is a good thing that a New Japan guy actually lost in Ring of Honor other than Gedo but having it be Ishii to a choke out from Bobby Fish is just strange and something that was mostly done to shock the crowd

 

Love the idea of they Young Bucks promoting a record number of super kicks in a 8 man match that should be loaded with flippy crazy shit and there was none of them. Very smart. Now ruining a main event to basically restart the Bullet Club in ROH with Adam Cole as the member is just lazy rehashing of the them in New Japan with a finish straight out of 1997 NWO

 

Maybe this finish would be better if we didn't have a really intriguing and somewhat fresher angle at the end of the Evolve show the night before.

[Parties]

Tetsuya Naito vs. Kyle O’Reilly (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Liked the Regalplex and the finish. My feed was quite bad during this, but what I saw looked solid if unexciting.

Hiroshi Tanahashi/Michael Elgin vs. Kazuchita Okada/Moose (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Really weak looking neckbreaker from Okada to Tanahashi was the most glaring moment in the match, but this whole thing lacked heat. Aside from the second rope senton I didn’t much like their stuff. Elgin was as oafishly bland as ever even if his power is legit, and Moose works too small for a guy so big. He’s flying around for everyone when he could be the grounding powerhouse to the other indulgence on display.

Tomohiro Ishii vs. Bobby Fish [TV Title] (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Really liked the brainbuster, big lariats and suplexes from Ishii. Fish sold well throughout and told a story of challenger having to take a beating to stand a chance. Good match.

Kushida/Matt Sydal/The MCMGs vs.The Young Bucks/Tama Tonga/Tanga Roa (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Bucks have a certain charm at times even if their work isn’t superb. Faces were all interchangeable, though I think Kushida’s pretty likable in his work and character. Match was the usual Bucks overkill, and probably on the low end of their recent ROH work even with some nice dives and an amusing subplot in their superkick counter.

Jay Lethal vs. Colt Cabana (ROH Global Wars, 5/8)
Lethal’s a better promo than Cabana. Lethal’s entrance theme and video is totally weird but kind of effective. Match of the Night until the finish, which was worse than nearly anything WWE’s done this year. Like, some part of me thinks this sucked more than Taker-Shane, in that I had a more visceral negative reaction to just turn this off than to the unintentional comedy of Mania. Thought Lethal and Colt both looked very good. I suspect this is building to some kind of Wargames match where ROH has to defend against the invaders.

[WingedEagle]

The undercard was pretty solid, with a the Liger/Cheeseburger tag almost perfect for the time allotted and characters. It wasn't a great match, but it was solid action designed for the sole purposes of bringing smiles to faces (^TM Michael Hayes).

 

Briscoes vs. War Machine really needed better production as the camera missed a few big spots and everyone seemed off at the finish. But they built a couple near falls tremendously, particularly with Hanson missing the moonsault.

 

The booking remains a huge question mark. Other than getting the TV Title off of Ishii, the ROH roster is presented as inferior to the visiting stars. A stale world champion and flavor of the month challenger didn't even get a finish and were used to recreate a '97 Nitro, only with an ROH/PWG babyface tag team fronting their heel stable. I'm a fan of the Young Bucks but this doesn't feel like a particularly good use of anyone involved. Is Lethal a babyface now? Should anyone care about the title regardless of the answer? Is the superkicking tag team paying tribute to old gimmicks really a top of the card heel act?

 

Perhaps there's a bigger picture here that will play out, but nostalgia night isn't a good look for the main event picture.

[goc]

Why is Jay Lethal a month away from a year long title reign? RoH is nothing if not consistent at booking their World title reigns past the point where anyone cares.

[Luchaundead]

Why is Jay Lethal a month away from a year long title reign? RoH is nothing if not consistent at booking their World title reigns past the point where anyone cares.

Who would you put the title on that fits these important ROH criteria for champion: 1. under ROH exclusive contract 2. is not used regularly for NJPW and is available to work ever every ROH date 3. Has not and probably will not have any type of social media scandal that could tarnish the reputation of the company 4. is unlikely to get raided by the WWE 5. can talk and wrestle at a level that is acceptable as "Top ROH guy" 6. excites no one out side of the already established ROH fan base.

 

Now if you can find a guy that more perfectly fits these ROH champion materiel requisites than Jay Lethal does then they should have the belt ASAP.

[WrestlingPower]

Lethal's act really only works as champion. I'm not sure where you go with him after he loses. And it's not like they've done a great job building up a challenger that seems like a logical threat. Cole is really their best option at this point if he sticks around long. It's way too soon & could cause a fan revolt if they go with Dijak or Moose, either one of which is just as likely to get snatched up by WWE before they reach a level where they would be a "ready" champion here. They've ruined Cedric to the point I'm not sure he's even in the company these days. Elgin isn't really over in the states anymore. Not sure who's left other than bringing in an outsider which they don't tend to like doing.

 

On another topic...

 

I'm not specifically disagreeing or agreeing with the calls for a replacement in booker, but I've been saying for years now, what difference will it really make? Delirious is firmly entrenched in the ROH corporate structure & ROH is largely stuck in the same pecking order & place in the wrestling world regardless of what they do good or bad. So largely it doesn't matter if people are tired of Delirious or whatever, he's not going anywhere, it doesn't make much difference if he does, so people probably need to just stop wasting energy complaining or analyzing it.

[WingedEagle]

Why is Delirious so entrenched?

[Luchaundead]

Lethal's act really only works as champion. I'm not sure where you go with him after he loses. And it's not like they've done a great job building up a challenger that seems like a logical threat.

Kyle O'Reilly had felt like he was built up perfectly to be the next challenger as he was cheated out of his title shot at ASE, then he was in a 3-way where he wasn't pinned, and finally he dispatched his greatest rival, that happened to be the man that cost him the victory in both those title shots, though it's probably too soon to go right back to giving him another title match and having him lose clean to Naito probably doesn't help. I say this even if some people who happen to be the the same podcast as me seem to think looks like a "goober".

[hammerva]

If Dijak shouldn't be a factor in the title hunt, why in the world did they do that angle to have him take out Truth Martini? Only thing I guess is that they saw that promo he cut a couple weeks later and said fuck it