The one and Only KANE thread

[goodhelmet]

I have watched about 2/3rd of the WWF PPVs from the last 15 years and I never thought Kane was a good wrestler. With that said, what are the very best Kane matches that deserved to be watched? To keep it simple, I only want tags where Kane played a significant part or singles matches. I remember enjoying the TLC and MITB matches he was in but I think it is much easier to be part of a good match / clusterfuck with 6 people where you hit your big spots than it is for a singles match where you actually have to work the entire match.

[Troy]

I enjoyed the hell out of HHH/Kane from MSG 03 where Kane lost the mask

[Victator]

I listed sixteen matches earlier, some of the last five were simply better than the Shawn/Kane match. I have wrote about some of them in the past. But it feels futile when it feels like you are bringing it before some wrestling Truman Capote, who is just waiting to take a piss on it.

 

I wrote this on my blog about the Jerishow/Kane and Taker match

From 2009 Smackdown before Survivor Series. Its the team of JeriShow vs Undertaker and Kane.

 

Good match with a somewhat chicken poo finish. Great finishing sequence. Big Show hit a brutal looking spear to save Jericho from the chokeslam. Kane does a really good job playing face in peril. He almost makes it to Taker a few times, each time Big Show comes in and crushes Kane.

 

Undertaker is pacing excitedly before Kane finally makes the big tag. The match has an excellent finishing sequence. Jericho tries to get Taker in the Walls but its reversed into Hell's Gate but Show pulls Jericho out of the ring. Kane gets the better of Big Show. The Brothers of Destruction get set to chokeslam Show thru the announce table but Jericho makes the save.

 

Inside the ring Taker gets the best of Jericho. Big Show knocks out Kane outside the ring. He comes inside and saves Jericho by chokeslamming Undertaker. He helps up Jericho who unknowingly hits the Codebreaker on Big Show. Instead of pinning Taker he grabs the World Heavyweight belt and leaves.

 

This was to set up the Show vs Taker vs Jericho title match at Survivor Series. If Jericho had pinned Taker it would of been great. As is it sounds like another chickenshit WWE finish. They wanted to set up Survivor Series but did not want Undertaker pinned so they did this. Still a good match.

I wrote this about Vader vs Kane from NWO 98

 

I watched this last night. Wanted to reevaluate it since I tend to misjudge matches where Vader lost. I really lived and died with him back then. First off the video package is great. by the end of it you really want to see this match. It comes across as really important. That with Undertaker gone Vader is the only one with a chance to stop Kane.

 

I really liked Kane's selling in the match. When Vader starts hitting him he recoils like he is in shock. Fans go crazy every time Vader gets on offense. Felt like a demolition derby with two big trucks crashing into each other. Slowly Vader's resistance gets worn down and Kane hits some suplexes and slams. He has this way of lifting Vader that looks like he is dead lifting him.

 

Kane takes the Vadersault and the Power Bomb. Paul Bearer distracted Vader before he could go for the win. Kane hits Vader with the tombstone piledriver to win. After the match he hits Vader in the face with a wrench and Vader has to be stretchered out which came across as a big deal.

 

Considering how the next six months went I wish this had been Vader's last WWF match. He came across like a big star and Kane came away looking like an even bigger monster.

Those are write ups I have on my blog. Some like Kane vs Show I never had a chance to put up.

[goodhelmet]

Victator, my plan isn't to shit on the matches. My plan is to watch the recommended matches. If I like them, I will comment on the matches I like. If I think it sucks, I will probably just say it sucks and moves on because really... if the choice is to invest time in Kane matches or nearly any other wrestling, I'll probably choose the alternative. The main reason for starting the thread was to get the discussion of Kane out of the HBK thread.

[Big Rob]

Kane had a very good match with Finlay on Smackdown, the Belfast Brawl one. Kane seemed to work really hard in it, and Finlay was Finlay.

[JerryvonKramer]

Can't believe this is actually happening. What are we going to be debating next? Duggan in the WWF? The best matches of Nailz? The pros and cons of peak Hugh Morris?

[Yo-Yo's Roomie]

When I did my big ranking of all the Summerslam matches, I had Kane Vs Matt Hardy from Summerslam 2004 as the 9th best Summerslam match ever. It's short and explosive, with Matt busting out some big offence to put Kane away quickly, and Kane doing a great job playing the monster taken by surprise by his spunky opponent.

 

I then had Kane Vs Finlay from Summerslam 2007 as the 21st best Summerslam match ever. These two always worked well together, I think, and this was a strong brawl with Kane doing a really good job working vulnerable with taped up ribs.

[Matt D]

All I will pimp is the Backlash 08 Kane vs Chavo match. You only have to watch one Kane match for my sake Will. Promise!

 

Here's what I said about it:

 

Anyone who wants to see a really good Kane performance, just watch Backlash 2008 vs Chavo. After Mania where he beat him in 9 seconds you wonder how the match could be anything but a joke, but they went out there in had a really strong match based on legwork and so much of that was Kane's selling. What impressed me the most is how well he sold while on offense, making it seem like it took more effort to hit things than usual and making sure to sell getting up and moving around after every move. And it built into the story since it was how Chavo kept getting back on offense, the best bit being Kane being unable to hit his top rope clothesline properly late in the match and Chavo capitalizing by recovering more quickly and snapping his rope off the top. It was a smart, logical, believable ten minute match. Good stuff and Kane more than held his own.

IF you do watch it, please keep those things in mind.

[Mad Dog]

I watched that Vader vs. Kane match for the first time in over a decade. Holy crap, that crowd went insane when Vader went for the Vaderbomb. That match is kind of amazing considering Vader was so stop and go with his push. It speaks volumes to me that Kane had been around for maybe 5 months and he was so over that the crowd latched onto Vader so much.

[Dylan Waco]

I've never liked Kane and have no real desire to prioritize watching his matches over the Calgary, Montreal, Maple Leaf, St. Louis, AWA, Portland, older WWF, et I am currently watching but eventually I might use this thread to watch some things I would never normally watch. So someone feel free to give a top ten Kane performances list or something akin to that.

[ragemaster]

As i'm part of the reason why this thread is here, i thought i bring my thoughts over from the shawn thread. Agree disagree, this is going to be my only post on thread. I'm not going to waste anymore time watching Kane matches, Life is way too short.

 

 

I thought i better outline what i liked about the Kane vs. Michaels match. Now let me make it absolutely clear, that in no way do i think this is a great match. The truth is, i hate Kane as a wrestler, and his whole gimmick of an unstoppable monster. It bores me whenever i see him wrestling, or whatever it is he trying to do in the ring. So when he wrestled Michaels and had an fast paced give and take match, i found it that much more enjoyable than the normal Kane snooze fest. Also there were some cool spot's in the match, like the back flip out of the corner in to the jumping ddt. Kane killing Michaels outside with the table and Shawn running in to the big boot when he's trying to do the super kick. The big complaint seems to be Michaels chops in the match, now i never understood the issue with them. He working within the WWF/E frame, the fan's react to them and if you can get the fans to react without killing your opponent isn't that a bonus. Why chop like Genichiro Tenryu if you don't have to? The fans watching don't care and i bet Kane isn't saying, gee you didn't make my chest bleed tonight next time hit me harder Shawn. So that's the basic reason i like the match, not love it but like it.

[tim]

Kane's always been one of my least favorite wrestlers, but I just watched Kane/Vader and enjoyed it a lot. Vader is definitely the star of the match but Kane really is pretty good. I dug his selling: he was noticeably affected by Vader's offense, but never came across as being in any real danger, just as a temporarily dazed monster who would keep steadily coming at Vader. Vader's strikes were obviously the stars of the match and were seriously awesome, and there's this GREAT moment where Vader catches a go-behind on Kane and just starts pummeling him from behind. I'd say it's worth everyone watching just for that spot but the whole thing was fun.

[Mad Dog]

I think it says something about Kane that he's been in several angles that would've killed other careers dead and survived. I think it also speaks volumes about him that he can be a forgotten mid-carder for years and they can just tease making him a threat again and the crowds are instantly behind him.

[Blehschmidt]

I always thought that the 2001 Rumble was Kane's greatest performance.

[Matt D]

Can't believe this is actually happening. What are we going to be debating next? Duggan in the WWF? The best matches of Nailz? The pros and cons of peak Hugh Morris?

Welcome to PWO. We examine everyone and everything. Nothing is a given here. Nothing is untouchable. There are no sacred cows. You can back something up, anything up, more power to you.

 

That said, I'm not watching a bunch of Nailz matches.

[Coffey]

Kane is worse than Demolition.

 

I asked about Kane before here once. I think I asked if he EVER had a good match. Quite a few people replied listing matches but none of them changed my opinion of him, that's for sure. He's big, slow, lethargic and boring. And I like a lot of big guy wrestlers, so it doesn't have anything to do with having physical limitations or working as a big man in WWE. He's just not any good and never has been.

 

He's better than 9-1-1!

[tim]

The Smackdown match with Albert Victator mentioned is also a lot of fun, and in particular Kane does a really cool counter to the Baldo Bomb. Two matches aren't really gonna change my opinion of him, at least yet, but if the question is "Are there good Kane matches" then the answer is yes. Granted I think he was the lesser worker both vs. Vader and vs. Albert but he didn't drag the match down and was not without his merits.

 

EDIT:

 

Watched this half way reasonable match from 2004 vs. Edge. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEBkbLNwAmA

 

I don't think it's much to write home about but worth considering the differences in his selling mask vs. no-mask. With a mask he's selling effectively as a sort of otherworldly monster, who may be affected by offense but never really seems "hurt" or at too much of a disadvantage. Without the mask he's selling just like a regular really weird really strong big guy bumping reasonably. Also it's worth noting that for a guy who spent a good chunk of his most well known work under a mask he can be pretty emotive.

 

Granted this is a small sample of a big career so I don't know if his mask/no-mask performances are really as different as they seem consistently and I'm probably not gonna keep watching a bunch of Kane matches to find out, but for me it's enough to think twice about accepting Kane being worthless or even below average.

[JerryvonKramer]

Kane is worse than Demolition.

 

I asked about Kane before here once. I think I asked if he EVER had a good match. Quite a few people replied listing matches but none of them changed my opinion of him, that's for sure. He's big, slow, lethargic and boring. And I like a lot of big guy wrestlers, so it doesn't have anything to do with having physical limitations or working as a big man in WWE. He's just not any good and never has been.

 

He's better than 9-1-1!

What would be interesting is a thread comparing big guys and see where in the pantheon of big guys Kane ranks.

 

Here are guys that are better than him no questions asked (NB. still not got my AWA set through so no Blackwell yet from me):

 

One Man Gang

Stan Hansen

John Tenta

Andre

Bam Bam Bigelow

Vader

The Barbarian

Yokozuna

Undertaker

Giant Baba

Brock Lesnar

Terry Gordy

Meng / Haku - he got up to over 300lb in WCW

 

More interesting comparisons, perhaps:

 

Sid

Bruiser Brody

Big Show

Mabel / Viscera / Big Daddy V

Kevin Nash

King Kong Bundy

Kamala

Big John Studd

Mark Henry

Abdullah the Butcher

Ernie Ladd

Mike Awesome

Rikishi

[goodhelmet]

What would be interesting is a thread comparing big guys and see where in the pantheon of big guys Kane ranks.

This is the thread to do just that. Keep the Kane conversation out of threads about other wrestlers.

[Victator]

Once again I only brought that up in comparison to the Shawn/Kane match that is out and out awful. Which was bad by even Kane standards.

 

 

If Kane feels like working, he is very good. If he wants to dog it, nobody can get anything decent out of him. But I really do not feel like talking about anything with the Von Kramers and Coffeys of the world.

 

I am really glad people are enjoying the Kane/Vader match. It is something I am really glad I went back and reevaluated. My favorite part of the match was Paul Bearer beginning to panic, when it seems like Vader might win.

 

I would check out the Fully Loaded match with Big Show. Kane put in a great performance playing Spike Dudley for Big Show.

[Coffey]

What would be interesting is a thread comparing big guys and see where in the pantheon of big guys Kane ranks.

Well, firstly you need to establish a specific definition for what "big guy" is and then stick to those criteria.

 

But I really do not feel like talking about anything with the Von Kramer's and Coffey's of the world.

Trust me, the feeling is mutual, my friend.

[Tim Evans]

Sucks that a full version of Lawler vs Kane from Power Pro doesn't exist? Is this just Kane matches or Fake Diesel, Unabomb and Issac Yankem included too?

[Victator]

That was a great promo Cornette cut after the match. Maybe one of his best.

 

The list from the other thread.

 

vs Vader No Way Out 98

 

vs Steve Austin night after King of the Ring 98

 

vs Big Show Fully Loaded 99

 

with X-Pac vs Undertaker and Big Show

 

with Undertaker vs Big Show and Chris Jericho Smackdown before Survivor Series 2009

 

vs Undertaker Night of Champions 2001

 

vs CM Punk Smackdown last month *

 

with Big Show vs Viscera and Val Venis some Raw in early 06

 

vs Kurt Angle Smackdown episode in late 2001

 

vs Fit Finlay September 14 2007 Smackdown

 

vs Mankind Survivor Series 97

 

vs Mankind January 11 1999 Raw

 

vs Albert Smackdown in 2001 This is the first match they had that Kane won.

 

vs Umaga 10/9/06

 

vs Jericho Survivor Series 2000

 

*You can throw in any of the matches from the Kane/Punk/Bryan feud to the list. As far as promos and stuff go, Kane was obviously carrying it by himself. Because AJ has become unwatchable now.

[JerryvonKramer]

But I really do not feel like talking about anything with the Von Kramer's and Coffey's of the world.

Is it because we might pick you up on your renegade use of the apostrophe?

 

Well, firstly you need to establish a specific definition for what "big guy" is and then stick to those criteria.

I'm going to say 300lbs+

 

With guys who are basically at the 300lb mark, then maybe case by case. Someone like The Barbarian was always booked as a big guy. Hogan, despite being the same weight and even a bit taller, was not booked "as a big guy". In the two lists I produced, the first are guys where I don't think it's even worth discussing if Kane is better than them or not. But the second list may throw up some closer calls.

 

Sid - reckon most would give it to Kane

 

Bruiser Brody - traditionally, Brody might have walked it, but nowadays I'm not so sure.

 

Big Show - hmmm

 

Mabel / Viscera / Big Daddy V - I know his more recent run was quite highly rated. Might just shade it over Kane.

 

Kevin Nash - really depends on if you think Nash ever had a good match in his life or was ever effective. Some people do.

 

King Kong Bundy - case of how well did Bundy play his role vs. how well does Kane play his.

 

Kamala - I've always hated Kamala, but caught heat on here in the past for ragging on him. He was better than Kane at selling pre-87.

 

Big John Studd - I've only really seen him in the Wrestlemania match and in the 89 Rumble, but by all accounts wasn't bad.

 

Mark Henry - highly rated in recent years, mocked for his armbar-laden offense in times of yore

 

Abdullah the Butcher - How many terrible matches did Abby have? Don't think it's totally clearcut.

 

Ernie Ladd - looked great to me on the Mid-South set, but I've seen Ladd criticized too.

 

Mike Awesome - looking again, misses out on the "big man" criteria by 10lbs, so discount.

 

Rikishi - very over during the Attitude era, reasonably effective worker.

[Victator]

Is it because we might pick you up on your renegade use of the apostrophe?

More because I can't afford another laptop monitor.