The one and Only KANE thread

[Coffey]

I'm going to say 300lbs+

 

With guys who are basically at the 300lb mark, then maybe case by case.

Realistically, I guess it does sort of have to be a case-by-case scenario, doesn't it? Otherwise people will be talking about guys like The Warlord or Batista. Speaking of, if you try to go by weight, do you go by real weight or billed weight because that makes a big difference too.

[Jingus]

One important aspect about Kane that we personally don't see is apparently how safe and easy he is to work with. According to all reputable sources, no work ever looks at the card and goes "aw shit, I gotta work Kane tonight". And it's not like Kane is just doing simple easy Hogan-style never-leave-my-feet stuff out there; he's doing clotheslines off the top and hitting his opponents with weapons and kicking dudes in the face and taking some surprisingly big bumps for a guy his age/size and chokeslamming the living fuck out of people, and yet he apparently never hurts anyone. That's a hell of a special skill to have in this business.

 

I think it says something about Kane that he's been in several angles that would've killed other careers dead and survived. I think it also speaks volumes about him that he can be a forgotten mid-carder for years and they can just tease making him a threat again and the crowds are instantly behind him.

Yeah. Seriously, can you name a worse-booked longterm employee than Kane? The guy has had so much Wrestlecrap foisted upon him, they might as well call him a toilet. He's been in several worst-angle-of-all-time contenders, and rarely ever gets booked in a good one. And he turns face or heel at least once per year. Yet the crowd's never once abandoned on him. They always see him as a legit threat to anyone, able to win any match at any time; but at the same time, he's not an invincible monster. The audience will believe Kane pinning Cena, or Santino pinning Kane. He's incredibly adaptive at working nearly any role at nearly any spot on the card and always staying over no matter how much the office does to assassinate his character. Kane's got plenty of charisma and rapport with the audience, is the only way to explain how he's still employed and not been working at McDonalds for the past dozen years after all the times they've tried to kill him off.

 

I would check out the Fully Loaded match with Big Show. Kane put in a great performance playing Spike Dudley for Big Show.

Is that the one where Show press-slammed him over the top rope, right to the fuckin' floor? NASTY bump, no hands down, a legitimate ten or twelve foot drop for Kane straight onto the barely-padded pavement.

 

Mabel / Viscera / Big Daddy V - I know his more recent run was quite highly rated. Might just shade it over Kane.

Never seen the appeal of that guy. I've seen him have plenty of outright bad matches, even atrocious negative-star encounters. But I've rarely seen him do anything better than "I guess it was watchable, thank god it was short". Except of course for that period where he was dating Lillian Garcia and working in silk pajamas and mock-raping dudes, that was all shockingly entertaining.

 

Big John Studd - I've only really seen him in the Wrestlemania match and in the 89 Rumble, but by all accounts wasn't bad.

You're the first guy I ever heard say that. By most accounts, Studd stank.

 

And oh yeah, I'd add the Kane/Benoit match from Badd Blood '04 to the list. I know someone might see that one as the murderer carrying Kane, but the big red lug kept up his end of the match just fine.

[Bix]

I would throw in:

 

Kane vs Albert IC title switch, and not just because OMG DID YOU JUST SEE KANE DO A FRANKENSTEINER

 

Kane vs Big Show weird chain wrestling match from Raw that Vince demanded

 

Kane vs CM Punk ECW title match

 

All of the stuff from the recent feud with Punk & Daniel Bryan.

 

Some of his other ECW Title defenses.

 

MSG last man standing match w/ Cena if it's on YouTube or they did more around the horn that shows up.

 

I think that what it comes down to is that working monster style, he's not going to be a dynamo in the ring working matches doing what's expected of Kane in that style. As a de-powered babyface, babyface ECW champion working title match style, working with Punk & Bryan where he knew he had to work their style to make the match work, etc, he's going to give you good matches. I thought that was pretty clear from the Punk/Bryan feud since he immediately stepped it up and kept up with them really well.

[S.L.L.]

I think that what it comes down to is that working monster style, he's not going to be a dynamo in the ring working matches doing what's expected of Kane in that style. As a de-powered babyface, babyface ECW champion working title match style, working with Punk & Bryan where he knew he had to work their style to make the match work, etc, he's going to give you good matches. I thought that was pretty clear from the Punk/Bryan feud since he immediately stepped it up and kept up with them really well.

This is probably right.

 

In my experience, Kane is...weird. He is terrible 90% of the time, but then he will go on jags where he will get inspired and start delivering the goods for a month or two, and after that, he'll go right back to sucking again. He's not incapable, he just doesn't usually do what he's capable of.

 

As for good Kane matches, I was a big fan of his series with MVP when MVP first came into the company, particularly the London Street Fight. Notably, it's one of the only (the only?) good Kane performances I can think of where he's working monster style.

[Matt D]

So the people who are REALLY anti-Kane, do you dispute the last three posts? If so, on what grounds? It's not saying he's a superworker or anything.

[Dylan Waco]

Do I dispute that a wrestler employed by the company who has had more quality wrestling week-to-week than any previous company in history has had some good matches? No.

[sek69]

I think what aggravates people is that Kane has shown that he can ramp it up and and hang with guys considered top shelf workers, but has more often than not relied on his monster gimmick to coast in matches where he could get by on being big and scary.

[Matt D]

I think what aggravates people is that Kane has shown that he can ramp it up and and hang with guys considered top shelf workers, but has more often than not relied on his monster gimmick to coast in matches where he could get by on being big and scary.

I think about half the people on the board wouldn't admit to the first half of what you said. That's sort of the point of this note.

[Victator]

Is that the one where Show press-slammed him over the top rope, right to the fuckin' floor? NASTY bump, no hands down, a legitimate ten or twelve foot drop for Kane straight onto the barely-padded pavement.

Yeah that is the sickest bump I have ever seen. He just splats across the floor. Also that is a crazy feat of strength from Big Show.

 

The match is really worked well, with Kane playing an overmatched underdog face.

 

You're the first guy I ever heard say that. By most accounts, Studd stank.

I said it somewhere else. But I think Studd gets a bad rap unfairly. He is not great, but he had decent timing and knew what to do in the ring and when. He could also throw a cool looking suplex.

[Dylan Waco]

I think what aggravates people is that Kane has shown that he can ramp it up and and hang with guys considered top shelf workers, but has more often than not relied on his monster gimmick to coast in matches where he could get by on being big and scary.

I think about half the people on the board wouldn't admit to the first half of what you said. That's sort of the point of this note.

 

I think he's boring as piss, uninteresting and no fun to watch.

 

Has he had good matches? Absolutely. Has he had matches where he has looked good? Yes. Has he ever had a performance or even a match that I would call great or an all time moment? Certainly not that I can recall.

 

Kane is probably in my all time top tier of guys that are channel changers/I never want to watch. There have been exceptions here or there but that is basically a hard and fast rule.

[JerryvonKramer]

I'm going to say 300lbs+

 

With guys who are basically at the 300lb mark, then maybe case by case.

Realistically, I guess it does sort of have to be a case-by-case scenario, doesn't it? Otherwise people will be talking about guys like The Warlord or Batista. Speaking of, if you try to go by weight, do you go by real weight or billed weight because that makes a big difference too.

 

I'd probably class The Warlord as a big man.

[Matt D]

Warlord is a great prop for certain guys, like Jannetty. He also has some pretty good matches with DBS but that's a bit of a cheat since they had a whole year to run with each other.

 

And people (not Dylan) argued that there were no good Kane matches, no good Kane Performances, and certainly no Kane matches better than the Michaels one. That's why we're here. Obviously that's not the end all of what this note can be, but I was just keeping things in perspective.

[Mad Dog]

I was curious how old Kane is due to this thread. 45 years old. I was a little surprised, I thought he was a little younger than that.

[The Thread Killer]

I remember Kane having at least one very good (not great, but very good) match with Kurt Angle, prior to their WM18 match. I am fairly sure the date of the match was November 1, 2001. I do recall being subsequently disappointed with their WM18 match based on the quality of this one, as were Kane and Angle, reportedly.

 

Also, I remember really enjoying the brief but memorable Brothers of Destruction vs. Rikishi & Haku feud. I remember there being at least one old school wild brawl that ended up being a no contest, and a first blood match (which research shows me was on February 1, 2001) as well. The basis of this feud was how Kane and Taker were eliminated from the Rumble that year, and then Rikishi and Haku costing them the WWE Tag Titles. It wasn't a long drawn out feud, but it reminded me of the old Brody & Hansen vs. The Funk Brothers matches I loved from All Japan, just out of control Tag Team brawls. My nostalgia probably colored my perception of their quality, mind you.

 

I am not claiming these were great matches, but I remember them being quite good.

[Victator]

I think you are thinking of the match for WCW US belt where Kane actually tapped out to the ankle lock.

[sek69]

Kane's been in matches with guys who were in the top ten of their time and not looked out of place. I think he has the same problem Taker had in the 90s when he was constantly matched up with guys who no one could possibly get good matches out of. Not to mention I can't blame the guy for not going balls out every night with some of the bullshit he's been thrown into over the years.

 

I was thinking about this the other day, was his debut angle ripping the door off the Hell in a Cell and killing Taker the last time he was involved in a feud that didn't end up Wrestlecrap material?

[EricR]

I really loved the Kane/Ziggler Smackdwon series from a couple years back where all the matches built off each other.

 

Also liked the MVP series from the end of 2006.

 

And I remember him always filling out the Elimination Chamber matches really nicely. I think he's been in 4 of them.

[Rock_Of_Jericho]

Thought I'd jump in here as I can see both sides of this. I can't recall seeing Kane in a GREAT singles match. I've seen several good ones. I liked the Angle match at Wrestlemania, but on the whole, Kane has always struck me as a guy who is capable of having a great match, but never seems to have one, for whatever reason. He's been in tons of Wrestlecrap angles (Katie Vick, etc.) and as far as I can recall, has never had a legit run in the main event scene, despite being in WWE for 15 years.

 

His association with The Undertaker has both helped and hindered his career. It helped in the sense that it got him involved in a major player's storylines from time to time, but it hurt because he rarely gets his own stuff. The stuff he does get is crap, angles that can only hurt one's career and I have to speculate that there could be something political behind the scenes that kept his career from ever going anywhere to be stuck with such absolute garbage to work with...seriously, did anyone really expect the Katie Vick thing to succeed? He's essentially Undertaker-lite.

 

However, after 15 years, his character is about as stale as can be. I can see why no one wants to watch him work anymore. I can't recall him ever having a serious injury and it seems like he's always been there, so he's never been away long enough to get a real overhaul. Hell, I stopped watching wrestling after the Benoit tragedy for a good 3-4 years and I was still sick of Kane when I started watching again.

 

However, I think he's been a solid guy for the company and I also don't recall coming out of many Kane matches thinking it was the worst thing I'd ever seen.

[Exposer]

I just want to point out that I find it amusing that Kane has become the main eventer on stand-by in the last ten years or so. He's WWE's guy to plug into a major feud or title match when they have no other options (or when they think they have no other options).

[Jingus]

I just want to point out that I find it amusing that Kane has become the main eventer on stand-by in the last ten years or so. He's WWE's guy to plug into a major feud or title match when they have no other options (or when they think they have no other options).

Heck, that was already clear when Bischoff was GM. Whenever a babyface annoyed him, his go-to response was: "Fine! Then tonight, you've got a match against THEMONSTERKANE!!!"

[Loss]

*bump*

 

I never even posted in this thread before, but Matt accused me of being extreme last time this topic came up. The thread somehow slipped past me to be honest. I had to go look for it.

[Matt D]

Yeah, this was me.

 

I must have been getting your disdain for Demolition and Will's for Kane confused.

 

And for that I am terribly sorry. Though at least you're in decent company.

 

I was JUST looking this thread up too, but you see why we don't have to go around this circle again, right?

[Loss]

The disdain for Demolition wasn't mine either.

 

Will, you're killing me here.

[Loss]

Yeah, this was me.

 

I must have been getting your disdain for Demolition and Will's for Kane confused.

 

And for that I am terribly sorry. Though at least you're in decent company.

 

I was JUST looking this thread up too, but you see why we don't have to go around this circle again, right?

And yes, I'm perfectly fine not having a debate about Kane.

[jdw]

"Blame Will!"

 

 

John