RAW 1000

[S.L.L.]

I was genuinely surprised that Loss liked the booking of the show given his complaints about the poor treatment of the titles, though reading his thoughts, I think he's just looking at this from a different angle than I am.

 

He's looking at this and seeing them making the WWE Title important again because the champion is feuding with The Rock.

 

I'm looking at this and seeing them officially declaring the WWE Title doesn't matter because the only important thing is that The Rock will challenge for it. You know, if he can make some time for it in his schedule. We wouldn't want something as trivial as the company's top belt interfering with the shooting of The Fast and the Furious 6.

 

Maybe Loss found a way around it, and I'm happy for the man if he did, but for me, there's really no way around the fact that they're hyping a title match for the Rumble where the title itself is - at best - a very, very distant second in terms of what makes the match important. A little while ago, I wrote that because of the brand split's death, we had a situation where the World Title was the Intercontinental Title, the Intercontinental Title was the TV Title, and the US Title was the Western States Heritage Title. Now we don't even have that. Now it's like New Japan between the sealing of the NWF Title and the IWGP becoming an actual belt, where the biggest title in the company was just being Antonio Inoki...if Inoki only actually showed up three or four times a year...and only wrestled once. So now being the Rock is the WWE Title, and the WWE Title is the Intercontinental Title, and the World Title is the TV Title, and the Intercontinental Title is the Western States Heritage Title, and the US Title is...oh, God, I don't even know what the US Title is anymore. The Million Dollar Belt? The ICW/ICWA Texarkana Television Championship? That "Mighty Moon" belt Marlon Brando got on the set of The Godfather? I don't even know!

 

And speaking of things I've bitched about before, I've said before that I didn't think turning Cena heel was a good idea, or at the very least, that it wasn't a useful idea. But turning Punk heel seems a thousand times worse right now, and that's in spite of the fact that I have way more faith in Punk's ability to work an entertaining heel character than I do Cena's, that I have way more faith in Punk's ability to work compelling matches as a heel than I do Cena's, that I don't think Punk's position as a top face has been as important to the company as Cena's position as a top face, and that after the initial brilliance of the Summer of Punk, I don't think Punk's face character has been exceptionally compelling. Despite all of that, I don't see turning him heel as an even remotely useful option for them, because at least a Cena heel turn would probably stick with the fans. Seriously, we're supposed to boo Punk now? Why? I guess we'll find out next week, but I've been thinking it over, and the only reason I can come up with for why he did this is because he's spent the last thus-and-such many years busting his ass night in and night out to earn the top prize in all of wrestling, and Rock sat things out for seven years (ten and counting as a full-time competitor), wrestled all of two matches since then, had a small handful of appearances, and now he's being handed a title shot because he needs something to keep him occupied until Arabian Nights starts shooting, and that pissed him off, so he beat him up. And if that is the rationale for his heel turn, he's absolutely fucking right, and I can't possibly accept him as a heel.

 

And as much as I love The Rock, I somehow find it unlikely that he's gonna make himself seem all that sympathetic in this situation. I know a lot of Rocky's face act is built around him being a dick to other people, but he's awesome enough that I usually can look the other way at it. But not always. The Cena feud, for example, was something I struggled to find him likeable during. It's one thing when you're joking about Kevin Kelly being a hermaphrodite. It's another when you hand the win to the heel in the main event at WrestleMania because the face's brightly-colored clothing offends your sensibilities. It's also something that The Rock was offended by someone else having tacky fashion sense, but I'm getting away from the point. Point is that I didn't get why Rock wasn't clearly the heel against Cena, but I at least understood that Cena is a divisive figure, not to mention the match was happening in Rocky's backyard, so there were more than enough people out there who would want to cheer Rock and boo Cena, even if I wasn't one of them.

 

But Punk? Everybody loves Punk! The guys, the girls, the kids, the adults, the smarks, the marks, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads...they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude. And if my guess is correct (and if it's not, I don't know what they're going to pull out of their asses to make this not look like a Russo-esque SWERVE~! for RATINGZ, BAY-BEE~!, in which case all of this is still a problem), I don't know that they're going to be able to sell people on the idea that they're not supposed to like Punk anymore. And lest we forget, as much as the crowd has loved The Rock over the years, they've also been willing to turn on him at the drop of a hat, especially when he's being poorly booked, especially when he's dealing with a hot face act (or a heel who was a hot face act before being awkwardly shunted into a feud with Rocky), and especially when the thorny issue of him walking away from wrestling gets brought up. Honestly, as much as I don't like how this show turned out, I kinda see a light at the end of the tunnel. It seems possible - maybe even likely - that the crowd will refuse to accept Punk as a heel, will turn against Rock, the whole angle will go off the rails, and come the Royal Rumble, we'll have a face CM Punk defending the belt against Hollywood Rock, which would be totally awesome. But for now? Well, this way too many talented people not to produce something I want to watch, but as someone who's reasonably positive about WWE's in-ring product and strongly negative about their booking, this did nothing to change that.

[Johnny Sorrow]

But Punk? Everybody loves Punk! The guys, the girls, the kids, the adults, the smarks, the marks, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads...they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.

 

See, A LOT of people think Ferris was a douchebag. And Punk is way better at being a douchebag than a smiling babyface.

[jdw]

But Punk? Everybody loves Punk! The guys, the girls, the kids, the adults, the smarks, the marks, the sportos, the motorheads, geeks, sluts, bloods, wastoids, dweebies, dickheads...they all adore him. They think he's a righteous dude.

Fucking awesome!

 

John

[Coffey]

I don't like Punk.

 

Actually, C.M. Punk is fine but I wasn't a fan of the RAW 1,000th closing angle with him turning heel again. I do think that he is better as a heel than a babyface but I just don't really see the point. So now we're just killing time until January and that time is going to be occupied by The Big Show?

 

I'm also not real high on C.M. Punk's actual wrestling but that would be a rant that no one really cares about.

[Slasher]

It's another when you hand the win to the heel in the main event at WrestleMania because the face's brightly-colored clothing offends your sensibilities.

No, that's not at all why the Rock attacked Cena and gave Miz the match. In the go-home Raw show before Mania, Cena gave the Rock an AA to end the show. As petty as it may be to you, THAT is why the Rock did what he did.

[Moonsault Marvin]

I certainly like Punk less after a year of terrible face promos. WWE doesn't even have confidence enough in him as a draw to put him in main events, so they needed to do something diifferent with him. The problem of course is he will never be accepted as truly heel as long as he is stuck with the divisive Cena.

[Loss]

Well, if you really wanted to get critical, Rock hasn't even earned the title shot. It's not exactly Flair-Funk where Flair scoffed at the idea of just giving a shot to a guy who had been "in Hollywood rubbing shoulders with Sylvester Stallone", which most people saw as a pretty sensible point of view. We're long, long removed from that. And I suppose you could look at it as devaluing of the title. But if you look at the reality of Monday night, which was:

 

* The Rock is on RAW.

* The Rock is wrestling at the Royal Rumble.

* RAW has the largest viewing audience they are likely to have between now and Rock's return.

 

They did a great job. My enjoyment of the final angle wasn't even about the title. It was about the champion finally being positioned with people that everyone sees as being at the very top.

 

The Undertaker's streak is "wrestling's richest prize". Being The Rock is probably #2. All valid points.

 

The rationale for Punk's heel turn is that he has had the longest title run in the over 15 years, yet hasn't been treated with respect. Despite beating everyone who has challenged him, John Cena has still been the guy, and guys like Rock and Undertaker and HHH have had more focus when they've been around. All the while, he's been there every night, winning matches, and it hasn't made a difference. Not to the company, not to the WWE Universe, not to anyone. As he started to leave the ring, he realized it was happening again. He was taking a back seat to The Rock and John Cena. And he wasn't going to let that happen again. He had enough. (I wonder if Rock mouthing "Get the fuck out of the way" as he did his run-in will be used as fodder later.) Also, they've been mentioning Punk's positioning while champion on television for weeks, so this has been foreshadowed for a little while.

 

I don't think turning the crowd on Punk is a valid concern. It already happened -- before RAW ended. Cena will be his opponent in the interim, which could prove tricky, but replaying and reminding people of what Punk did will go a long way.

 

By no means do I think it was GREAT. But I think it was solid, and it's a good direction. As always with WWE, many things can happen from here. It can be great, or it could end up terrible.

[Victator]

Rock pinned Cena clean at Mania, and if you want to dig deep, he never got a rematch for the title back in 02.

[S.L.L.]

See, A LOT of people think Ferris was a douchebag. And Punk is way better at being a douchebag than a smiling babyface.

True enough, but that's not really my point. My point is....

 

Seriously, we're supposed to boo Punk now? Why?

Certainly, you're not going to boo him, you heel fan, you.

 

I don't like Punk.

Everyone who counts loves Ned Flanders C.M. Punk!

 

No, that's not at all why the Rock attacked Cena and gave Miz the match. In the go-home Raw show before Mania, Cena gave the Rock an AA to end the show. As petty as it may be to you, THAT is why the Rock did what he did.

Admittedly, I had forgotten about this, but...

 

1. Hogan never intentionally gave wins to Mr. Perfect when he was feuding with the Warrior. If 99% of faces did that, it would be the setup for a heel turn. The Rock only got away with it because he's that charismatic and iconic.

2. What did Cena do to deserve getting beaten up by The Rock after their tag match at Survivor Series where Cena effectively saved the match for their team?

 

I certainly like Punk less after a year of terrible face promos. WWE doesn't even have confidence enough in him as a draw to put him in main events, so they needed to do something diifferent with him.

Yeah, but the problem with his terrible face promos isn't that he was a face, it's that they were terrible. The fact that they think turning him heel is the solution is disheartening in part because it shows they don't understand the problem. Punk being a face wasn't a problem at all. There were no complaints about Punk as a face, at least not at first. Then they cut his balls off. That was the problem, and even then, he maintains a fanbase the vast majority of wrestlers would be envious of. But the fact that he's still underachieving in that regard clearly has nothing to do with his moral alignment and everything to do with his lack of balls. And to be fair, sicking him on The Rock is a pretty damn good way to get him his balls back...which is just going to make everyone fall in love with him all over again. Plus, as you mentioned, he's probably going to be programmed against Cena while he's doing this. This plan is actually getting dumber the more I think about it. They are going to try to turn him heel by precisely recreating the conditions under which the crowd turned him face in the first place. Seriously, this is like if they had tried to turn Austin heel at Mania X-7 by having him pass out in a pool of his own blood while The Rock had him in the Sharpshooter. This is like if they set up DiBiase's run as the Million Dollar Man by having him get jumped right before a WWF Title match by Randy Savage but still insist on fighting Hogan anyway. This is like if they set up the formation of the Ministry of Darkness by having Undertaker stop Marc Mero from hitting Sable with a chair. OK, that last one might've worked, but my point still stands.

 

Well, if you really wanted to get critical, Rock hasn't even earned the title shot. It's not exactly Flair-Funk where Flair scoffed at the idea of just giving a shot to a guy who had been "in Hollywood rubbing shoulders with Sylvester Stallone", which most people saw as a pretty sensible point of view. We're long, long removed from that. And I suppose you could look at it as devaluing of the title. But if you look at the reality of Monday night, which was:

 

* The Rock is on RAW.

* The Rock is wrestling at the Royal Rumble.

* RAW has the largest viewing audience they are likely to have between now and Rock's return.

* Nothing that happens between now and the Royal Rumble is important. Go back to sleep.

 

The rationale for Punk's heel turn is that he has had the longest title run in the over 15 years, yet hasn't been treated with respect. Despite beating everyone who has challenged him, John Cena has still been the guy, and guys like Rock and Undertaker and HHH have had more focus when they've been around. All the while, he's been there every night, winning matches, and it hasn't made a difference. Not to the company, not to the WWE Universe, not to anyone. As he started to leave the ring, he realized it was happening again. He was taking a back seat to The Rock and John Cena. And he wasn't going to let that happen again. He had enough. (I wonder if Rock mouthing "Get the fuck out of the way" as he did his run-in will be used as fodder later.) Also, they've been mentioning Punk's positioning while champion on television for weeks, so this has been foreshadowed for a little while.

Which is basically what I was thinking applied to a larger scale, but more importantly, he's still right. Consider this - you yourself have made the exact complaint that Punk is probably going to make next week on Raw multiple times in a number of posts, and now that he's acting to solve the problem, you are celebrating. In other words, you are already cheering for heel-turned Punk. I can't read that as anything other than a sign that this will fall apart.

 

I don't think turning the crowd on Punk is a valid concern. It already happened -- before RAW ended.

And the hero of a horror movie bumping into a cat in a dark, quiet room makes people jump in their seat. It doesn't mean cats are scary, it means the filmmaker caught you off-guard with a cheap surprise. You can't build a whole horror film around a guy bumping into cats. Once the shock value of Punk attacking Rock wears off - and I'll tell you right now, that's not gonna last long - will they still boo him?

 

Cena will be his opponent in the interim, which could prove tricky, but replaying and reminding people of what Punk did will go a long way.

"Remember when Rock showed up after filming another shitty movie and got a title shot on a silver platter because nobody in the company actually gives a shit about the belt anymore, so Punk beat the fuck out of him? That was awesome."

 

Rock pinned Cena clean at Mania, and if you want to dig deep, he never got a rematch for the title back in 02.

Honestly, if you ran Punk vs. Rock for the title at Extreme Rules, I would have seen no problem with it. At least if he's on back-to-back PPVs, you can pretend that he's taking wrestling seriously again, and that if he wins, he'll be around to defend the title once every 30 days for however long he's champ. But when the entire structure of the build to his match blatantly exposes the fact that he couldn't possibly fulfill his duties as champion, there's no way I can take him seriously as a challenger. Fuck, if he wants the belt so bad, why doesn't he challenge at SummerSlam? It's just as high profile of a show. He's not gonna be any more qualified for a shot in January than he is now. They don't already have a title match announced for the show. If he cares about it so damn much about the belt and can apparently get a shot on a whim, why wait?

 

C.M. Punk will have the answer, and nobody will be able to say that he's wrong, and nobody will be able to say that The Rock is right. And yet, we will be expected to boo C.M. Punk and cheer The Rock. That's why this is stupid.

[Loss]

Well, if you really wanted to get critical, Rock hasn't even earned the title shot. It's not exactly Flair-Funk where Flair scoffed at the idea of just giving a shot to a guy who had been "in Hollywood rubbing shoulders with Sylvester Stallone", which most people saw as a pretty sensible point of view. We're long, long removed from that. And I suppose you could look at it as devaluing of the title. But if you look at the reality of Monday night, which was:

 

* The Rock is on RAW.

* The Rock is wrestling at the Royal Rumble.

* RAW has the largest viewing audience they are likely to have between now and Rock's return.

* Nothing that happens between now and the Royal Rumble is important. Go back to sleep.

This coming week has a hook. CM Punk explains why he did what he did.

 

This begs the question: Do you think they should have asked Rock to stay home even though he was available for the show? You know, because he's not going to be around every week anyway. Everyone is just going to hate him for being gone apparently, so might as well just not use him at all. That would be much better, right?

 

Since when did planting seeds for things that are happening in a few months become a bad idea?

 

Which is basically what I was thinking applied to a larger scale, but more importantly, he's still right. Consider this - you yourself have made the exact complaint that Punk is probably going to make next week on Raw multiple times in a number of posts, and now that he's acting to solve the problem, you are celebrating. In other words, you are already cheering for heel-turned Punk. I can't read that as anything other than a sign that this will fall apart.

Not really.

 

People dug Chris Jericho. But they dug Shawn Michaels more. So Jericho/Michaels worked because Michaels was the object of Jericho's scorn.

 

People dig CM Punk. But they dig The Rock more. So Punk/Rock will work because Rock is the object of Punk's scorn.

 

People dig Punk now more than they dug Jericho then. And they dig Rock more now than they dug Michaels then. So Punk/Rock should work better than Jericho/Michaels.

 

Plus, I am not a typical WWE fan. My reactions to things aren't typically an indicator of how most people react to something.

 

I find it strange that you defended last summer's Punk angle turning into HHH's wacky tenure running RAW (at least IIRC), yet Punk turning on Rock to set up a big program in January that will directly lead to WM is problematic. Why is that better than this?

 

I don't think turning the crowd on Punk is a valid concern. It already happened -- before RAW ended.

And the hero of a horror movie bumping into a cat in a dark, quiet room makes people jump in their seat. It doesn't mean cats are scary, it means the filmmaker caught you off-guard with a cheap surprise. You can't build a whole horror film around a guy bumping into cats. Once the shock value of Punk attacking Rock wears off - and I'll tell you right now, that's not gonna last long - will they still boo him?

Yes. WWE fans are Pavlovian. Whether they agree with him or not, if Punk calls them idiots, they will boo him. You act as if your average WWE fan carefully weighs the facts and considers both sides of an argument before deciding who to cheer or boo. Rock is popular, Punk will bash him and call fans idiots, people will boo, and it will be awesome.

 

Cena will be his opponent in the interim, which could prove tricky, but replaying and reminding people of what Punk did will go a long way.

"Remember when Rock showed up after filming another shitty movie and got a title shot on a silver platter because nobody in the company actually gives a shit about the belt anymore, so Punk beat the fuck out of him? That was awesome."

Please. WWE fans don't hold Rock's absences against him. He proves this by getting a gigantic reaction every time he shows up. You know this to be true.

 

C.M. Punk will have the answer, and nobody will be able to say that he's wrong, and nobody will be able to say that The Rock is right. And yet, we will be expected to boo C.M. Punk and cheer The Rock. That's why this is stupid.

Since when has WWE booked based on who is right and who is wrong on the merits? They book based on a caste system where headliners are entitled to act however they want and everyone else is expected to like it or get booed. Remember Cena, Zach Ryder and Eve just a few months ago? Punk doesn't like how Rock is acting, which means he doesn't know his role. Punk will get booed.

 

It's simple.

[Cox]

SLL, what do you think of my theory that WWE is booking Punk as almost an "anti-Cena," that is, a guy who will appeal to the adult men in the crowd but will be hated by kids and adults? In the next few months, I'm guessing Punk will be working primarily with Cena, and the kids/women will always go with Cena. The adult men will go with Punk, but unless Cena is being booked against a guy the crowd doesn't care about much (Big Show, for example), they won't side with Cena anyway. They have four months of Punk working with Cena to condition the kids/women to hate Punk so that by the time he faces Rock, they will side with Rock in that match (plus, as Loss said, most WWE fans simply like Rock more than Punk and will root for him regardless).

 

I know it's not ideal to have a top babyface that 100% of fans (and maybe sometimes even less than 50%) don't support, but maybe their success with Cena in that role has given them confidence that Punk can handle the opposite of that role.

[Coffey]

I don't like Punk.

Everyone who counts loves Ned Flanders C.M. Punk!

 

[S.L.L.]

This coming week has a hook. CM Punk explains why he did what he did.

I'll grant you that one, but if this doesn't catch fire immediately, then the less Rockcentric the shows become, the less important they're going to be.

 

This begs the question: Do you think they should have asked Rock to stay home even though he was available for the show? You know, because he's not going to be around every week anyway. Everyone is just going to hate him for being gone apparently, so might as well just not use him at all. That would be much better, right?

I think you're missing my point. Nobody hates Rocky right now. The potential for Rocky hatred is always there, and has been since he stopped being a full-time wrestler. But over the last few years, they've been very smart about avoiding the things that cause it to flare up. Now they're about to be very stupid about it. The mere presence of The Rock on TV is usually an unqualified good. They're about to fuck it up.

 

Since when did planting seeds for things that are happening in a few months become a bad idea?

Since they started planting seeds for things that were really bad ideas. The problem isn't that they're slow-building a program. It's how and why and what all that implies for the program.

 

Not really.

 

People dug Chris Jericho. But they dug Shawn Michaels more. So Jericho/Michaels worked because Michaels was the object of Jericho's scorn.

 

People dig CM Punk. But they dig The Rock more. So Punk/Rock will work because Rock is the object of Punk's scorn.

 

People dig Punk now more than they dug Jericho then. And they dig Rock more now than they dug Michaels then. So Punk/Rock should work better than Jericho/Michaels.

Except Jericho made himself genuinely unlikable. If we see anything approaching that level of gimmick transformation for Punk, I will be very surprised, even more so if said transformation actually makes sense.

 

Plus, I am not a typical WWE fan. My reactions to things aren't typically an indicator of how most people react to something.

Well, were any mainstream fans necessarily happy that Punk's title defenses were all semi-main events? I mean, it was probably a non-issue to them, but if Punk says he didn't like it, are any of them going to be really mad that he wasn't happy being a semi-main event WWE Champion? How are fans supposed to relate to this?

 

I find it strange that you defended last summer's Punk angle turning into HHH's wacky tenure running RAW (at least IIRC), yet Punk turning on Rock to set up a big program in January that will directly lead to WM is problematic. Why is that better than this?

You don't RC. I defended the idea of running a tournament on Raw the night after MITB as something the Mr. McMahon character would do, and in general, I didn't immediately abandon ship on the angle after things started to go south. I held out hope - for a little while, anyway - that they might right themselves. I never said any of the other obvious fuck-ups were not obvious fuck-ups.

 

Yes. WWE fans are Pavlovian. Whether they agree with him or not, if Punk calls them idiots, they will boo him.

 

He called them idiots a year ago. They cheered him so much he became the second biggest face in the company.

 

You act as if your average WWE fan carefully weighs the facts and considers both sides of an argument before deciding who to cheer or boo.

You act as if no wrestling fan has ever reacted to an angle differently than the promoters wanted them to before. You act as if no wrestling fan has ever booed The Rock when the promoters wanted them to cheer him before.

 

Please. WWE fans don't hold Rock's absences against him. He proves this by getting a gigantic reaction every time he shows up. You know this to be true.

And you know it to be true that that wasn't the case before his comeback a few years ago. Like I said, they've been very smart about how they've used him the last few years, and a big part of that is that they've realized that the old wounds fans had about him leaving had all healed, and they haven't done anything stupid to try and rip them open again. The only guy who's brought the issue up on TV is Cena, and he's a guy a large chunk of the audience hates anyway. But Punk does not come pre-hated. And really, Loss, simply telling them to boo Punk is gonna make them boo Punk? C'mon, man. You're way too smart for this. If that was all it took, Punk wouldn't even be a face in the first place, because they were telling the fans to boo him last summer, and the fans told WWE to stuff it and cheered him.

 

SLL, what do you think of my theory that WWE is booking Punk as almost an "anti-Cena," that is, a guy who will appeal to the adult men in the crowd but will be hated by kids and adults? In the next few months, I'm guessing Punk will be working primarily with Cena, and the kids/women will always go with Cena. The adult men will go with Punk, but unless Cena is being booked against a guy the crowd doesn't care about much (Big Show, for example), they won't side with Cena anyway. They have four months of Punk working with Cena to condition the kids/women to hate Punk so that by the time he faces Rock, they will side with Rock in that match (plus, as Loss said, most WWE fans simply like Rock more than Punk and will root for him regardless).

 

I know it's not ideal to have a top babyface that 100% of fans (and maybe sometimes even less than 50%) don't support, but maybe their success with Cena in that role has given them confidence that Punk can handle the opposite of that role.

If that's true, it's not a good idea, but it's a better bad idea than just turning him heel, if only because that treatment of him would feel less forced.

[Loss]

(1) Rock hasn't gotten booed by a significant part of the fanbase in over a decade, when Rock was sometimes booed when facing other very over babyfaces like Austin and Hogan. Wrestling fans have grown up and moved on since then, and they have largely been replaced with an entirely new generation of wrestling fans. Also, absence makes the heart grow fonder. I would be genuinely surprised if this backfires and the crowd turns on Rock.

 

(2) I think you may be overestimating CM Punk's popularity as a babyface. As soon as he mentioned that he would beat Rock when they faced each other at the Royal Rumble -- prior to the turn, mind you -- he was booed. He has been met with apathy or a merely polite response during many episodes of RAW that I have watched. He's liked by many, but I wouldn't really call him likable.

 

(3) It's wrong to say WWE hasn't exploited the old wounds over Rock leaving. It was the centerpiece of the build to this year's Wrestlemania main event against John Cena.

 

(4) When fans started cheering Punk, he stopped calling them idiots.

 

Punk is capable of being a great heel. We have seen him in this role before. People love Rock. When presented with the choice, people will cheer Rock over Punk. WWE, to their credit, knew they couldn't execute the turn with Cena, so they didn't execute the turn with Cena. The feud has potential. I am excited about seeing CM Punk vs The Rock. I think most WWE fans are too.

 

Booking choices made on Monday night encourage a heel response directed to Punk. I expect him to deliver a great promo on Monday to further his turn. Over the next few months, he has Cena as a placeholder opponent, and if all else fails, Rey is capable of being put in that slot at any time.

 

WWE is capable of doing anything badly, just as they are capable of doing anything well. There are no guarantees, but if you judge them on what they have done so far (the turn on Monday), I don't see what is not to like.

[Loss]

The only other thing I'll add is that the WWE fanbase is so fragmented and has interests that directly contradict interests of other parts of the fanbase, so I think the days of a near-universal response may never return. There has never been a more polarized WWE audience, and neither is a segment of the audience WWE can afford to do without. Cena, as a babyface, has been able to appeal to both sides of that audience in different ways for difference reasons. Punk, as a heel, has the potential to do the same.

[Victator]

WWE simply does not have the roster to turn Punk. The fact they are trying is a result of being at a dead end with John Cena. They have been doing reruns with Big Show and they are having to do it again with Punk. Go to a live event and you will see Punk is only a hair behind Cena in popularity.

 

Which I think a lot of it has to do with how they fucked up with Tensai. They don't know how to build new heels and this [roblem is only going to become worse.

[goodhelmet]

The reason you should have faith in this heel turn is that Punk has proven he can be the most hated guy on the roster. During the Jeff Hardy feud, he played the role to near perfection. As leader of the Straight Edge Society, he was only getting cheers from a very small group but was also getting 1980s NWA Heat with little granny's yelling at him and people throwing shit at him as shown in the San Francisco handhelds. Punk as heel against the top guys should be pretty awesome.

[Cross Face Chicken Wing]

Punk is perfect to play the asshole heel. Absolutely perfect. I haven't watched WWE since Mania, but I'm going to tune in again so I can see heel Punk.

[KrisZ]

Punk hasn't tweeted since RAW which is pretty amazing for him to do because he was always tweeting something. Great move to build up anticipation for Monday.

[NintendoLogic]

I missed the show, but I watched the Punk turn on Youtube. I was immediately struck by the way Rock sold Punk's clothesline like it was a Stan Hansen lariat. I have mixed feelings overall. On the one hand, Punk is way more compelling as a heel. On the other hand, I hate how in the WWE every heel under 300 pounds is a chickenshit pussy who can't win a fair fight.

 

Punk being more interesting as a heel reminded me of something I've been thinking about recently. One of the big problems with the current product is that nobody consistently cuts a good babyface promo. Cena can cut a good serious promo when he wants to, but he's usually either insufferably jokey or cartoonishly angry. Punk usually looks embarrassed by the material he has to work with. Orton's speaking patterns and mannerisms are far more suited for a heel. And Sheamus just says "arse" a lot.

[RWOOD]

Thought I'd continue this week in this thread since they keep saying "RAW 1001" tonight...

 

I'm not sure how many of you watch new WWE on Mondays when something special isnt happening but there is an okay to decent match between Dainel Bryan and Sheamus right now. It was voted to be a street fight by kids on twitter apparently and featured some good outside brawling, backdrops and suplexes on the floor. Bryan even got to do his flying shin gaurd off the stage, which is a lot shorter than I remember it being. Maybe Sheamus is just taller than most guys. Anyway, they worked their way back into the ring and did some okay kendostick work. Bryan hit the droptoe into a chair he set up in the corner but Sheamus came back and got the win with his finisher or whatever. The steel steps were involved somehow. I dont think he did the big boot whilst Bryan was on standing on the steps but whatever, it was a pretty good match between the two, probably the best I've seen. More exciting than the Extreme Rules one ... the quick brawling kept the pace up and the spots were great.

 

Alsewhere, Punk cut a pretty standard promo concerning his heel turn last week and pushed it pretty hard but it didn't really go over with the live crowd. Not surprisingly, the fans seemed confused at best.

 

Dainel Bryan, on the other hand, is very over as a heel right now.

 

There was also a pyro accident before doors opened and pushed back whatever taping they might still do before RAW.

 

Looks like Punk/Cena will be the title match at Summerslam.

 

The three hour format seems to be the exact same only longer. I'd say the show has been entertaining enough. The only things that really irritate me are the hashtag nonsense coupled with this new video socializing site they seem to have. It reminds me of the time RAW was in Biloxi (or to be fair, Halifax) in 1997 and they interviewed fans about outcomes. The match I highlighted is good enough for me. I'm not much into the olympics or reruns.

[Log]

The only problem I had with the show is that I really needed some more HHH/Lesnar recaps.

[RWOOD]

The only problem I had with the show is that I really needed some more HHH/Lesnar recaps.

What did you think of the psychological analysis?

[Log]

It was fine for what it was. I was just joking because it seemed like there were like 20 recaps of the HHH stuff.

 

I don't really get why they can't pack more stuff into the 3 hours. Seriously, why? They have guys that are barely being used. There's like 20% new footage on these shows.

[Victator]

Matches seemed to get more time this week. I think that is a bonus.