shakla Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I heard there's a Grumpy Cat Christmas movie coming out soon on cable, probably what this appearance is all about. Not that I condone it. It's going to lame for sure. What the hell can it do? They might just show an image of the cat on the tron and do a voiceover or something, so it doesn't have to appear "in person". Remember earlier this year when they said "Scooby Doo and the whole gang" would be on RAW, and it was just Scooby in some mascot costume you'd see at Six Flags. So low rent, could have easily had people on the roster dress up in Scooby's human friends gear. This reminds me of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 You know the Divas are still being graded on a pity curve when consistently having matches without a horrific botch is considered praiseworthy. That's like praising Khali on the grounds that he hasn't killed anybody since arriving in WWE. Seriously, let them have a 20 minute match that the crowd doesn't completely turn on halfway through and then we'll talk. Most guys in WWE could not put on an engaging 20 minute match. Then most guys in WWE suck, which is why they need everything laid out for them by road agents. 20 minutes is looooong and usually unnecessary for a singles match. That's ridiculous. I know the less-is-more mindset is in vogue these days, but it's more often the case that less is just less. There's a reason virtually every great match in history has been at least 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Eh, you had me until the "virtually every great match in history has been at least 20 minutes." Can't agree with that, as there are plenty of great matches that are in the 10-20 minute range. I agree with the rest of your points though, although I would say I tend to fall more on the limitations argument, which means that the wrestlers should go the amount they can go to deliver their best match possible, whether that be 5, 10, 20, or 60 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pol Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Hopefully they parlay this into a Rusev/Ryback singles program Wouldn't that just lead to the same complaints we saw for Mark Henry-Ryback? That WWE booked themselves into a corner and neither guy can afford to lose. Quite possibly. I just want to see the matches . I don't hold out any hope for WWE booking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Coffey Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I like matches that build to a finish. When there's a beginning-middle-end. And where stuff that happens in the beginning isn't forgotten at the end. Whether is be limb work, or a feeling out process of exchanges with one person getting the better of the other or someone using a tactic that is countered later or whatever. It's hard to do that in like ten minutes cause there wasn't enough time to build to the middle, let alone the end. In example: Ric Flair works over Dusty Rhodes leg. Rhodes limps, can't walk & can't do a lot of his offensive stuff. Flair gets a Figure Four early but Rhodes makes it to the ropes. Flair goes for a Figure Four late and gets it reversed into a Small Package. That all makes sense to me. It can still work if Dusty goes into the match hurt so you don't have to do as much to put over that you've killed his leg/knee but you still need the parts where it shows how bad it is on Dusty's end so that he basically can't even walk. Sometimes you just need the 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 Vince cutting a promo on the Liverpool fans might be the most Vince thing ever. You run 15 shows in 6 days in a country you just blue balled on getting the Network at the last minute and you're shocked the crowd is dead for your B show taping? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jimmy Redman Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 One thing that always impresses me about the really good Divas matches is just how much they are able to pack into the 5-8 minutes they are usually given. You wouldn't think you'd be able to fit beginning-middle-end or a coherent story or gear shifts into such a short space of time, but somehow they do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 One thing that always impresses me about the really good Divas matches is just how much they are able to pack into the 5-8 minutes they are usually given. You wouldn't think you'd be able to fit beginning-middle-end or a coherent story or gear shifts into such a short space of time, but somehow they do. Rob Naylor took a bunch of indie female Wrestlers to an NXT Live Event and they were really blown away by the NXT female's timing, cut off spots, storytelling and general less is moreness. This week Rob on Twitter pointed out how a lot of female indie Wrestlers have forgotten to engage the crowd you know clapping, appeals etc. NXT girls are excellent about that just look at Bayley for example. It isn't really a feature with the rank and file NXT male wrestlers for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bix Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 And wasn't Grumpy Cat a 2012 thing? WWE as on the ball as ever when it comes to pop culture and internet memes. Just you wait until 2016 when they start going apeshit over those RKO Vines! If they were really with what's hot right now, the special guest would be Smarf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillThompson Posted November 12, 2014 Report Share Posted November 12, 2014 I like matches that build to a finish. When there's a beginning-middle-end. And where stuff that happens in the beginning isn't forgotten at the end. Whether is be limb work, or a feeling out process of exchanges with one person getting the better of the other or someone using a tactic that is countered later or whatever. It's hard to do that in like ten minutes cause there wasn't enough time to build to the middle, let alone the end. In example: Ric Flair works over Dusty Rhodes leg. Rhodes limps, can't walk & can't do a lot of his offensive stuff. Flair gets a Figure Four early but Rhodes makes it to the ropes. Flair goes for a Figure Four late and gets it reversed into a Small Package. That all makes sense to me. It can still work if Dusty goes into the match hurt so you don't have to do as much to put over that you've killed his leg/knee but you still need the parts where it shows how bad it is on Dusty's end so that he basically can't even walk. Sometimes you just need the 20 minutes. It all depends on the wrestlers. Seek out Chris Masters versus Timothy Thatcher on YouTube. It's a 12 minute match, but in that small time frame they manage to have a great match structured around character/heat building, limb work, and selling. Now, I'll grant you that the finish is not good, but everything up until it is great wrestling, and only in 12 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
goc Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I've seen Jerry Lawler & King Kong Bundy have an INCREDIBLE match in just 7 minutes that had a clear beginning, middle and end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 I've seen plenty of great matches that needed to be 20+ minutes. And I've seen way more 20 minute matches that would have been way better had a lot of the fat been trimmed off. Most wrestlers don't need and can't properly fill 20 minutes. This isn't about short matches being "in vogue". It would be interesting to get match times on all the top 20 finishers from the 80s sets. I'd bet money that half the matches are under 20 minutes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Yes, there are plenty of great sub-20 minute matches. But there are far, far more great matches that go longer than 20 (I'd say between 20 and 30 minutes is the sweet spot). Not only that, the overall quality of those longer matches is far higher. I'm confident that if you made a list of the 20 greatest matches of all time that go longer than 20 minutes and one of the 20 greatest sub-20 minute matches, the median quality of the former list would absolutely smoke that of the latter. The fact that most wrestlers are incapable of reaching those heights is immaterial. That's like penalizing Metallica because most guitarists can't play Kirk Hammett's solos. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricR Posted November 13, 2014 Report Share Posted November 13, 2014 Or it's like penalizing D. Boon or Lee Ranaldo for not ever wanting to do what Kirk Hammett does, even though what they do is just as awesome in a totally different way. There's just as much art in making a great 12 minute match as there is in filling 22 minutes. I think tag matches can benefit from going over 20 minutes. More heat spots, more comebacks, great near falls created by saves. I think most singles matches benefit from being under 20. The longer a singles match goes the more ridiculous it looks that either one guy couldn't put the other away, or that one guy was able to come back from such an extended beating. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anarchistxx Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 The Divas division is pretty strong at the minute, and I say that as a long time critic. They are one of the only things I don't fast forward if I Sky+ Raw. There are a decent amount of strong, easily identifiable characters who all bring something different to the table. The ring work is competent if unspectacular, but then they aren't exactly given the opportunity to have MOTYC. They continue to be hamstrung by dreadful, unfocused booking. They get very little shine, or any consistency. They missed a major step not going all in on the Bella vs Bella feud and they could have also done much more with Paige vs AJ. The success of Total Divas give them a lot of experience in backstage scenes and the half reality/half scripted thing that they should be taking onto the main shows. Have more backstage angles, more motivation for the characters, more time to talk and longer matches. They could have easily built from Summerslam up to a Nicki vs Brie Hell In The Cell Match - has an instantly unique selling point as the first Divas to go inside the cell, has a blood feud that should have been so easy to book as heated, hateful, expanding on the bitterness from the past thing they tried to put on it. Has to be better than that completely pointless Cena vs Orton match? Less short term, fly booking that seems almost ad libbed, and better focus towards longer feuds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lee Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 I can't say as I'm particularly interested in the main roster Divas, but between Natalya, Charlotte, Bayley and Becky Lynch, NXT's doing pretty damn great for itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DMJ Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 According to various sites, Khali got released today/didn't have his contract renewed. Not a huge shocker here, but looking back at his career, what surprises me is just how long his run actually was. They got everything they could out of him AND THEN SOME, it seems to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Chief Posted November 14, 2014 Report Share Posted November 14, 2014 According to various sites, Khali got released today/didn't have his contract renewed. Not a huge shocker here, but looking back at his career, what surprises me is just how long his run actually was. They got everything they could out of him AND THEN SOME, it seems to me. Not surprising in that he's wrestled probably under a dozen tv matches in the past two years, but somewhat surprising in that they liked using him for PR in India. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cm funk Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 He can still do some PR stuff for them here and there, it sounds like it was a mutual parting of ways. The dude's legs are in bad shape and he had a good run and made a lot of money, it was time to get off the road and call it a career. I'm probably one of the biggest Khali fans around. Sure he wasn't a great wrestler or anything, but there's always a place for a guy like him in pro-wrestling. I was never not entertained by him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rovert Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I can't say as I'm particularly interested in the main roster Divas, but between Natalya, Charlotte, Bayley and Becky Lynch, NXT's doing pretty damn great for itself. Way higher on Sasha than I am on Bayley and (currently) Charlotte. Sasha is six years younger than Charlotte, improves month to month while Charlotte has largely plateaued in the ring. Auld Becky needs to stand in front of a mirror and work out what facial expressions look good and what don't ASAP going by NXT this week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 I get the impression Charlotte's been told to get used to working a more toned down WWE Diva style to prepare for her imminent callup. As you stated, she seems to have hit the wall recently and the booking seems to suggest she's going to drop the title and move up soon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Badlittlekitten Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 The triple threat spotfest was a ton fun on smackdown this week. Nice to see Tyson Kidd in use. Don't know how UK crowds become so insufferable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stiva Posted November 15, 2014 Report Share Posted November 15, 2014 The triple threat spotfest was a ton fun on smackdown this week. Nice to see Tyson Kidd in use. Don't know how UK crowds become so insufferable. There's always been an undercurrent of it. I was at a house show in 2009 during Dustin's ECW run and there was a group of people in the front row giving it the "you're a legend!" *clap-clap-clapclapclap* nonsense. Now, it seems like that has grown to obscene levels, fueled by Facebook groups, memes and trying to ape the post-Mania crowds. Oddly enough, it fits right in with WWE's "meta-booking". Someone more intelligent than me can come along and expand on how it's become a self-aware, post-modern product in more depth than I could ever attempt. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Strummer Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 So the "minor medical issue" Dave was talking about with Eva Marie was her getting a new boob job. Oh pro wrestling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KrisZ Posted November 17, 2014 Report Share Posted November 17, 2014 She was already looking emaciated and now she has bigger breasts that should be freak show level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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