Are there any great Randy Orton matches?

[cm funk]

Orton is formulaic against your cookie cutter WWE guys. When you put him in there with anyone who's creative and wants to work something, he's awesome. He's never been a carry guy, and he's not a guy who needs to be carried, but he needs to be engaged

 

The best matches of Wade Barrett's career were with Randy Orton. Barrett's no great worker, but he's a smart guy who works well when given a reason to. Orton brought the best out of him.

[goc]

I know that I'm very much in the minority with this opinion (maybe the only one) but I absolutely loved the Cena/Orton Iron Man match from Bragging Rights 09. It was my favorite match of the year but it's not a match that most people seem to rate much better than "good."

I despise the finish to that, where Orton taps while the crowd counts down. He tapped with 2 seconds to go, IIRC -- at that point, you're insulting the audience. Why hold on through the countdown and stuff only to tap 2 seconds before? It's not like he couldn't hear the chanting counting down.

 

I let it go because it's happened in MMA at least twice that I can recall. Can't remember the one that was quite recent, but back at UFC 50 GSP tapped out to a Matt Hughes armbar with 1 second left in the 1st round. I found it far more frustrating when it happened watching the GSP fight than I did the Orton/Cena match.

[El-P]

I found this mind-boggling since to me, Orton is practically the poster child for the cookie-cutter WWE style.

Agreed. If I want to synthetize everything I dislike about WWE style and presentation, my answer would be Randy Orton in a nutshell. He's the prototype of WWE cookie-cutter worker/look/production.

[Hollinger.]

I cannot stand most of his work as a baby. He's such a natural slimy heel, and it just feels so phony when he's doing the edgy cool baby routine.

[Russellmania]

He's in his early 30s and is on the downswing of his career, unfortunately. Two wellness violations and less of a push than in the past. He got too much too soon, but at the same time, WWE has trouble slowly pushing guys to the top since they get typecast on their way up the ladder as midcarders, so a slow push may have resulted in less stardom. But it doesn't seem like there was any thought into making sure Orton was a long-term star. He won the title in 2004 for the first time, which was far too soon. He should just now be entering his peak years, but I guess that's not how wrestling works anymore.

Lol this is such an asinine statement. First of all it implies that somehow Orton's premature push in 2004 (8 years ago!) has anything to do with how wrestling works now. Second of all it's not like it has been totally uncommon throughout pro wrestling history for young guys with all the tools and talent to get pushed too much too soon. It certainly isn't something that only just started recently (or even in 2004 which I wouldn't really call recent).

 

As for the quality of Orton's matches, he's probably one of my favorite workers of this generation. The guy is just so consistently good and can work with plenty of different guys. I can't remember off the top of my head which of his matches are great and I'm sure I missed a lot of the better ones, but one that I've always loved is his last man standing match with HHH.

 

Orton's career trajectory has always reminded me a lot of Jun Akiyama's. Two guys with so much natural talent that they were inevitably pushed to the moon before they really knew how to handle it. Neither guy ever really lived up to expectations, but both guys ended up carving out really good careers and are arguably became better workers after their peak pushes. I know Orton has the 2 wellness strikes holding them back from really letting him run with the ball, but work-wise I think he is as good as he's ever been. He's also reached that rare point where he's so loved by the fans that he could basically work as a heel and still get cheered. His persona changed very little from his last heel run to his current face run and he's really the only anti-hero face that they have (since they seem insistent on making all their faces act like big smiling goofs).

[MikeCampbell]

The first two that came to mind when seeing this thread were the '04 Foley match and the '07 LMS match with HHH.

 

The problem with Orton is that he's been around for such a long time that there's almost nothing to do with him that won't seem like been there done that. He's done extended runs as both a babyface and a heel and feuded with pretty much every top name on the roster: Cena, HHH, Undertaker, Edge, Punk, Sheamus, Mysterio, and now Del Rio. I think it'd probably benefit his career in the long run to take a few years off anbd go work some indies or in Japan to broaden his own horizons and come back later on with some new names to work with.

[Dylan Waco]

Orton has been badly hurt by the fact that he is a shitty face, but every time he gets over as a high level heel the fans cheer for him and end up turning him face again. If the booking were better and he were a better all around performer they could work with that, but neither thing is the case.

 

There have been times where I really enjoyed Orton and other times where I have thought he was just awful as an act. I don't think he's ever been bad as a worker, but there are things he doesn't do very well that really jump out. Having said that he's had far too many good matches to be considered poor.

[Loss]

He's in his early 30s and is on the downswing of his career, unfortunately. Two wellness violations and less of a push than in the past. He got too much too soon, but at the same time, WWE has trouble slowly pushing guys to the top since they get typecast on their way up the ladder as midcarders, so a slow push may have resulted in less stardom. But it doesn't seem like there was any thought into making sure Orton was a long-term star. He won the title in 2004 for the first time, which was far too soon. He should just now be entering his peak years, but I guess that's not how wrestling works anymore.

Lol this is such an asinine statement.

Ha! In an odd way, that actually hurt my feelings.

 

First of all it implies that somehow Orton's premature push in 2004 (8 years ago!) has anything to do with how wrestling works now. Second of all it's not like it has been totally uncommon throughout pro wrestling history for young guys with all the tools and talent to get pushed too much too soon. It certainly isn't something that only just started recently (or even in 2004 which I wouldn't really call recent).

Of course it does. Guys like Goldberg and the Giant becoming world champions as rookies stuck out like a sore thumb when it happened, and that was even longer ago. Wrestling works differently now than in the past, although it's changed less in the past decade than it has in any other decade I can recall.

 

Yes, pushing of guys to the top at a very young age is not something unique to this generation. Kerry Von Erich, Juventud Guerrera and others I'm forgetting have had successful runs and made big money very early in their careers, and they've also worn out their welcome long before their bodies actually started breaking down. But while Orton has had his share of problems, I don't put him in the same category as those guys because he's not a burnout and he's not breaking down physically. Ideally, he still has a lot of years he can contribute at a high level, but he's so stale that it probably won't happen to the level it could.

 

I wish they could condition their fanbase to accept younger wrestlers doing more jobs without getting typecast as people not worth caring about. The alternative is to "strike while the iron is hot", which I hate on a personal level as a fan because the quality of the wrestling isn't as good, even though I recognize on a business level that it usually works better because the wrestler being pushed is seen as fresh. You mentioned Orton's career trajectory following that of Akiyama. I'd rather he followed the career trajectory of Misawa.

[BrickHithouse]

I'm probably the only guy here that dug the WM22 match. I liked it because it got Orton, Angle, and Rey the fuck out of the ring after 6 or 7 minutes, which is about my limit with those three.

[RWOOD]

Orton had a really good match with Cody Rhodes last night.

 

[WingedEagle]

It was a really good match. For a fleeting moment they even had me thinking Cody might go over.

[Dylan Waco]

That match was really good? Really? It got a ton of time, but there were a half dozen "What the fuck do we do now?" moments and that is the most ridiculous RKO out of nowhere finish ever. It was okay I guess

[WingedEagle]

It was really good relative to what I would expect or is typical for such a weekly match. Not "really good" to the point that I'll I'll remember it months or years from now or be touting it when looking back at 2013 in the ring. It was much more engaging than most Orton matches of late and had me questioning what was predictable before the bush finish. I'll take it.

[Dylan Waco]

I thought it was at best the third best match on the show. Possibly fourth best.

[Wahoos Leg]

I liked Orton's HIAC match with Taker, Cowboy Bob's hepatitis notwithstanding. Am I the only one?

[WingedEagle]

With a good finish it would've been my favorite on the night. As it stands probably 2nd favorite for me, though I could always dock it for that post-match nonsense. But I thought it was great until then.

[BlueGuy]

I liked his main event cage match against Ric Flair at the first Taboo Tuesday PPV.

[RWOOD]

It was really good relative to what I would expect or is typical for such a weekly match. Not "really good" to the point that I'll I'll remember it months or years from now or be touting it when looking back at 2013 in the ring. It was much more engaging than most Orton matches of late and had me questioning what was predictable before the bush finish. I'll take it.

I was doing dishes during Cesaro/Del Rio apparently.

 

 

Really impressed with the work up upon first watch until the odd finish also. Going for a kick to the face, I have no idea why Rhodes would dive head first. Watching the match twice now, I can say that I'm more impressed with the fact I wasn't that bored. Also upon further inspection the match was good because of Rhodes' heel work I guess, which Dylan noted was spotty.

 

Either way, I will downgrade from really good to good respectfully. Haha.

[Chess Knight]

I thought Orton/Cody was at best "decent" and I just finished watching it right now. Finish was hard to watch, I felt for Cody since there's almost no way he could have made that look good.

[RWOOD]

I thought Orton/Cody was at best "decent" and I just finished watching it right now. Finish was hard to watch, I felt for Cody since there's almost no way he could have made that look good.

More appropriate would be hitting the kick off the top and getting the two count before going for his swinging neckbreaker thing, which could easily be countered into a RKO. I think whoever tells Orton what do do favors flying into the RKO. It happens more often than not. I guess it looks cool in video packages which is the best thing WWE does overall haha.

[Guest Andrews]

Orton vs Foley, Backlash 2004 is the standout match for me. It's when Orton was the most exciting point in his career on the cusp of being a top player. Orton from Jan - Summer of 04 was brilliant, but post Benoit title win, it fell to pieces.

[Rock_Of_Jericho]

Orton's never been a favorite of mine. He's way too slow and methodical for my tastes. The only two singles matches (i.e. non-Elimination Chamber or Survivor Series elim match) I really enjoyed of his were the Foley (Backlash) and Christian (SummerSlam) ones. Other than that, he's bored me to tears inside the ring for the past decade.

[RWOOD]

Randy Orton vs. Brock Lesnar Smackdown Smackdown 09/05/2002

 

The purpose of referencing this match is to highlight Ortons ability as a upstart face getting his ass kicked in an entertaining fashion. With the way he wrestles these days and his eventual turn coming it seems appropriate. He moves quick and works the story of the match nicely, which Heyman seemed to lay out in a promo I wasn't paying that much attention to towards the match. I will assume it had something to do with training in OVW together and him jokingly saying to Lesnar that he better watch out for Orton, who then showed up behind Heyman. Typical backstage non-walking shot.

 

Anyway, one thing that stuck me as odd, I suppose, is that the action is very fast in the beginning of the match. Not even close to present day Orton. Orton goes for Daniel Bryan-like kicks to the side of the leg, without much effect. I do like that Brock is not no-selling these kicks but not overselling them (as I feel he is known for especially in his first run). Orton does a nice schoolboy out of the corner when Brock goes for a shoulder. Lesnar is playing his role of dominant upstart perfectly. He hits a wonderful belly to belly and does his little two step, smiling the whole time. The more I watch Lesnar the more I wonder why exactly it was I didn't like him so much in this era to the point of turning off my TV. It may have more to do with what was going on on RAW and my lack of acceptance for the brand split.

 

Lesnar tosses Orton over the top rope in the corner and Orton almost literally goes flying over the post. I say almost because he seems to take a pretty silly bump right to the face and then fall flat on the floor. Ouch, I suppose. I wonder if this is the match where his shoulder was injured. Maybe that injury was kayfabe and I just think it was real because of the subsequent RNN news updates, which were promos I did enjoy. Who cares?

 

Brock is on full display here but Ortons performance as a face taking a beating is pretty convincing in my book. A lot of real stiff clotheslines from Lesnar and more two-step heeling as Orton tries to get up. Brock goes for what I think will be a tree of woe (which is cool) but instead he slams Orton into the buckles, keeps him on his shoulder and then does it again in the opposite corner before dropping him like a sack of tomatoes.

 

Brock nails a gutbuster and Orton sells it like he just got shot by his brother. Brock goes for it again but Orton valiantly fights back a bit and his one of the better modified backbreakers (the one he does now with the inverted headlock), probably because it didn't look premeditated as all hell. Didn't think it was the best continual selling of the first gutbuster (he could have held his stomach a bit before going for the dropkick to the shin) but I'll let it go because I liked the delivery of his signature spot which I can't really say about his matches these days.

 

Orton goes for the cross body. Lesnar rolls through. In a pretty nice looking feat of strength spot Lesnar gets to his feet with Lesnar scooped up and then places him on his shoulders perfectly and nails the F5. Thats it, thats all.

 

I realize this match highlights Lesnar much more but it really does showcase Ortons selling and speed, which are often two things that he does not showcase these days. I miss running the ropes. Everyone jogs and gallops about the ring now in WWE.

 

It is also an entertaining slight squash that is completely watchable and enjoyable. Watching episodes in their entirety does have its benefits as I don't think I would have looked at this match otherwise.

 

The match is on Youtube if you want to watch it.

 

Cheers

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=23mXPx_557U

[Alucard]

I think it's only been mentioned in this once but the Orton/Edge Vengeance 2004 match is one of my all time favorites. Awesome IC title run from Orton, super hot crowd and finishing stretch. Always really loved that much but haven't watched it in a while now.

 

Other than that the Orton/Christian matches I always loved each one of them, especially Over the Limit. In a recent interview, Orton named Christian as his favorite opponent. Thought Orton had some really good matches with almost everyone he worked with in 2011.

 

The Foley match is a classic for sure and re-reading through this has me wanting to rewatch that.

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

Orton's match against Benoit on Raw after Summerslam was the best match I've ever seen him in. That is wrestling at its best for me. I'm really excited about him apparently turning heel against Danielson as this is going to produce some really strong matches and it's going to really put Bryan over strong. It will be some of Orton's best matches ever. I'm excited for it.