Wrestlers you really dislike

[Johnny Sorrow]

I remember in the Mid Eighties, PWI and the Apter mags were totally pushing Taylor hard as a possible new NWA Champion. They even did one of their phony articles where Magnum and Taylor had a friendly wager as to who'd win the belt first.

[Jingus]

Another vote for Mark Henry. I've done this argument to death on here so I won't bother getting detailed, but he never seemed to be anything but another big lumbering monster and there's plenty of dudes who do that much better.

 

As long as we're going after the "admittedly good hands whom I inexplicably dislike" category: Alex Wright. He bored me to death as a babyface, and inspired channel-changing heat as an annoying obnoxious heel. It especially didn't help that he just always looked too damn small to me, short and skinny. That would be fine if he was in the cruiserweight division, but he was usually going hold-for-hold with much bigger guys. Even compared to other relatively little guys with technical gimmicks, like Malenko or Danielson, Wright just looked like he was too puny to put up much of a fight against his often-towering opponents.

 

There isn't anyone left who still likes Vampiro, is there? Back in the dying days of WCW he was a minor internet darling, which I assume must be because he had an interesting look and was one of the few young guys in latter-day WCW who were allowed to have competitive feuds with the established stars. Over at TSM we had a We Watch Shitty WCW Club which was exactly what it sounds like, and those viewings really exposed Vamp as being a fucking useless botchamaniac. Duggan and Konnan and Knobbs also went into the same Least Valuable Player pile, but even back in 2000 you rarely saw anyone who liked those guys, while Vampiro somehow had an actual fanbase.

[Dylan Waco]

Brian Knobbs is Ric Flair next to Vampiro

[Blehschmidt]

Brian Knobbs is Ric Flair next to Vampiro

This may be my new favorite quote of all time.

[FLIK]

It especially didn't help that he just always looked too damn small to me, short and skinny. That would be fine if he was in the cruiserweight division, but he was usually going hold-for-hold with much bigger guys.

???? Alex Wright was like 6'2 - 6'3

[Chess Knight]

I fucking hate Vampiro.

[Dylan Waco]

It especially didn't help that he just always looked too damn small to me, short and skinny. That would be fine if he was in the cruiserweight division, but he was usually going hold-for-hold with much bigger guys.

???? Alex Wright was like 6'2 - 6'3

 

 

Yeah I always thought Wright looked to BIG to be a cruiser. Sure he was really lean and maybe that's the point. But the guy towered over most people in that division.

 

I was never a Wright fan then and I'm still not now, but the guy was one of the bright spots in WCW in 95 in terms of delivering pretty solid matches.

[Jingus]

6'2"? Really? Maybe I just saw him in too many matches against the Wraths of the world. But still, he was the rare example of a guy who was so slender that it hurt my suspension of disbelief to think that he could supposedly fight all these muscle-bound behemoths.

 

As for Knobbs: if I were forced to give a single compliment to Vampiro, it would be at least that it didn't seem like he was on a mad quest to be recklessly stiff with almost every younger guy who ever got in the ring with him. Knobbs wasn't just dangerously sloppy, he often looked like he really was actively trying to injure his opponent.

[El-P]

On Taylor I agree that he was better as a heel, but I can't think of anything he's ever been involved in that drew me in on any level. Brad Armstrong is a guy that often got branded as a good hand who was hurt by being bland, but Brad seemed like The Rock next to Taylor. Maybe I'm watching the wrong matches.

Funny you should drop Brad's name here, as to me he's the perfect exemple of underwhelming as all hell. He's got more babyface fire and charisma than Taylor, but his matches often (I'd say 90% of the time, and I watch shitloads of Brad Armstrong lately) are quite bland because his work never gets past a rather pedestrian babyface formula. The Vader squash is the best thing I've seen Arsmtrong involved in because Vader and the very short time prevented him from working that way, but usually Brad is always a disapointment to me to the point I don't subscribe to the "underrated" or "underpushed" talking point anymore. What has been said at the time of his death explains a lot though, he just didn't care about performing at a higher level because he was happy just doing his work.

Taylor was a total natural heel, and he has said in interviews he loved working as a heel and not much as a face, which is telling also.

 

I can't figure who's worse between Knobbs and Vampiro. What I've seen from Knobbs lately has been both embarrassingly bad and pretty dangerous. Vampiro was just embarrassingly bad so I would go for Vamp ahead of Knobbs. Both are at the very bottom of the barrel anyway.

[Mad Dog]

It especially didn't help that he just always looked too damn small to me, short and skinny. That would be fine if he was in the cruiserweight division, but he was usually going hold-for-hold with much bigger guys.

???? Alex Wright was like 6'2 - 6'3

 

 

Yeah I always thought Wright looked to BIG to be a cruiser. Sure he was really lean and maybe that's the point. But the guy towered over most people in that division.

 

I was never a Wright fan then and I'm still not now, but the guy was one of the bright spots in WCW in 95 in terms of delivering pretty solid matches.

 

6'3'', he towered over Chris Jericho in their matches.

 

[goc]

On Taylor I agree that he was better as a heel, but I can't think of anything he's ever been involved in that drew me in on any level. Brad Armstrong is a guy that often got branded as a good hand who was hurt by being bland, but Brad seemed like The Rock next to Taylor. Maybe I'm watching the wrong matches.

I saw you say you don't have the Mid-South set, have you seen the match where Terry Taylor turns heel on Chris Adams in UWF?

[Mad Dog]

Cannot stand Sheamus. Not sure if I hate his work on the stick more or less than in the ring, but his segments are ones I comfortably fast forward through without regret.

 

Randy Orton too. Its been said before that he performs like the generic CAW in a video game. I'll say it again. He sucks.

I love Sheamus. He wrestles like a hooligan and it's so rare for someone to wrestle like their character that I'm really drawn to him. His mic work can be questionable but that's more the material than him. I've seen some great Sheamus promos.

[King Solomon]

Was it ever clear to you why Dave and others thought Brody was better than Hansen, John? I came to the matches years later, but for the life of me, I can't see how anyone would come away with that view. It's not like Hansen's character was fucking subtle or something.

I think they liked Brody's wild character, the aura of violence, the juice, etc. it became self fulfilling.

 

The analogy that I always liked, which I think Frank came up with, was the Brody was the Undertaker of his era. That was tossed out back at a time when folks thought Taker was a gimmick and not really any good, so it was quite insulting for Brody Fans to have to hear. I think the irony might be that Taker at his best was better than Brody.

 

John

 

 

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

[King Solomon]

Oh, and I'm also on board with Johnny's dislike of post Mania III Roddy Piper. As much as I love the guy for his 70s-1987 work (as in top ten all-time for me), I can't stand his later stuff, especially his babyface commentary.

 

Yes Piper came back a shell of himself in terms of Charisma and heat. He seemed to be go on cruise control and came off corny rather than edgy.

[King Solomon]

My choice would be Brutus Beefcake the Barber years. I had no problem with him as the weaker link of the Dream team but not as a feature baby face

[Dylan Waco]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

 

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

[King Solomon]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

 

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

 

 

Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's.

[Slasher]

On this board you can't say "it's there, and if you can't see it, I don't know what to tell you!" If someone asks for clarification on your comment, the prudent thing is to cite specific examples of sequences or segments where Brody exhibited great mat prowess. Otherwise your opinion is liable to be dismissed fairly quickly.

[Death From Above]

Sometimes I feel like "the only guy here that knows enough to know better" who enjoys Brody from time to time.

 

Not like he's a guy I go out of my way to watch, or that I'd hold up as an all-time great. And I see a lot of the bullshit that bothers others about him. But I've always found the amount of venom he draws to be a bit much. It just bothers me less.

 

So he's a selfish idiotic goof. So what?

 

Then again I actually enjoyed Brian Knobb's run as a singles wrestler in the crazy assed blender that was WCW in those years. So it's possible I just have kind of bizarre taste in brawlers.

[Dylan Waco]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

 

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

 

 

Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's.

 

 

As it happens I just watched the Flair/Brody matches from St. Louis within the last couple of weeks. I actually don't hate the broadway, though I don't think it's a particularly interesting match and Brody doesn't do much in the way of matwork.

 

Brody was easier to hide in tags and he was in some pretty good matches though I don't think I've ever seen a Brody match where I thought he was the best guy in the match. I'm actually a moderate on Brody relative to some on this board. I think he was terrible for any number of reasons (near refusal to bump or show any vulnerability ever, poor/inconsistent selling, horribly weak looking strikes for a guy who was supposedly a great brawler, low energy in the ring for a guy put over as a madman, et), but I'm not as down on him as goodhelmet. Possibly not as down on him as jdw either.

[shoe]

As a kid from St. Louis, and also grew up in Texas. I thought Dick the Bruiser, and Brody were the toughest men on the planet. Now watching Brody he really is bad. I want to like him , but I can't. He has good matches here and there . Though the bad far outweighs the good. As far as mat work I never saw it. King Solomon your pro Brody might be the highest marks I have seen someone give Brody except Larry Matysik.

[goodhelmet]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

 

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

 

 

Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's.

 

Working on the 80s project for New Japan, All Japan and Texas, I have seen tons of Brody. Brody's biggest obstacle is that Stan Hansen was standing right there next to him and was better than Brody at every aspect of wrestling. What athleticism did Brody display? Running around the arena swinging a chain? No-selling offense from everyone except Giant Baba and Inoki (the guys writing the checks)? I agree with the charisma thing but only when it comes to appearance. You look at him and think "Shit is going to go down" and then you watch him wrestle and shrug your shoulders and shit never goes down.

 

Also, this is a pet peeve of mine but I could give a shit what other wrestlers think of his work. They don't watch the TV. Maybe Jingus will be more sympathetic to this position. Sometime tomorrow, after the presents are unwrapped and the kids are calm, I'll sneak away and give some specific examples of Brody being horrible when watching the All Japan and New Japan footage.

[FLIK]

Sometimes I feel like "the only guy here that knows enough to know better" who enjoys Brody from time to time.

 

Not like he's a guy I go out of my way to watch, or that I'd hold up as an all-time great. And I see a lot of the bullshit that bothers others about him. But I've always found the amount of venom he draws to be a bit much. It just bothers me less.

 

So he's a selfish idiotic goof. So what?

 

Then again I actually enjoyed Brian Knobb's run as a singles wrestler in the crazy assed blender that was WCW in those years. So it's possible I just have kind of bizarre taste in brawlers.

Kind of in the in the same boat as I like Brody too but not enough to bother counter arguing the intense hatred he gets in some parts. By and large he's still mostly loved outside of pockets of the super hardcore fandom though.

 

Years ago I uploaded a semi shoot interview Brody did in the 80's to my youtube account and it's dwarfed anything else i've ever put up in terms of views (20 thousand+ more then my next higest rated video) and comments almost all of which tend to be positive.

[King Solomon]

I have been all things Mid South the last year or so. I'm currently watching the 1984 season with the intent of going thru 1987. However I will take a breif respit from my Mid South DVD's and plop in my Best of Brody DVD Japan set which is five discs I believe. My goal is to view the whole set over the next two days as luckily I have a woman who loves to watch wrestling with me so I won't get any heat at home. I'll try to be objective as possible. From my memories Brody was awesome altho I'll admit the Abdullah matches suck.

[King Solomon]

I guess I'm in the minority here. I loved Brody in Japan and also loved his matches with Blackwell, Flair, Gordy here in the states. I didn't like his matches with Abdullah. He had a great team with Hansen and Snuka. To me Brody had the perfect blend of brawling and mat wrestling. He also had a great aura. I'd say Brody is in my top five of favorite wrestlers.

 

I think Brody is terrible, but if people like him that's fine. Having said that I am not sure what you mean by mat wrestling. I've watched a lot of Brody over the years and don't recall him being an adept mat worker by any standard.

 

 

Just watch a lot of his Japan stuuf and matches with Ric Flair in St. Louis. If you don't think he is an adept mat wrestler then I don't know what to tell you. I loved Brody in the 80's and still love him now. If you don't like Brody that's fine but to say he was terrible is a huge stretch of anyones imagination. I have saw too many good matches from him to even entertain any viewpint that he was terrible. His peers seem to hold his work in high regard. The one issue that some of his peers have with him was his atttitude at times. In a time when a lot of guys with heavily muscled bodies came on the scene, Brody was a big guy with great athleticism and had charisma that stood out unlike some of the muscle guys that came on the scene in the 80's.

 

Working on the 80s project for New Japan, All Japan and Texas, I have seen tons of Brody. Brody's biggest obstacle is that Stan Hansen was standing right there next to him and was better than Brody at every aspect of wrestling. What athleticism did Brody display? Running around the arena swinging a chain? No-selling offense from everyone except Giant Baba and Inoki (the guys writing the checks)? I agree with the charisma thing but only when it comes to appearance. You look at him and think "Shit is going to go down" and then you watch him wrestle and shrug your shoulders and shit never goes down.

 

Also, this is a pet peeve of mine but I could give a shit what other wrestlers think of his work. They don't watch the TV. Maybe Jingus will be more sympathetic to this position. Sometime tomorrow, after the presents are unwrapped and the kids are calm, I'll sneak away and give some specific examples of Brody being horrible when watching the All Japan and New Japan footage.

 

 

For me I do put stock in what other wrestlers say because obviously they are in the craft. I also put stock in my own opinions as well as others. If you don't think that Brody displayed athleticism then again I don't know what to tell you there. For me, he passes the eyeball test.