Bret Hart

[Guest TheGreatPuma]

It's been awhile now Superstar since I've seen Bret vs Bravo from London though I have seen it a few times. I watched it in context with watching everything else in the WWF at the time (and I was watching a lot of WWF at the time) and Bret and the match really stood out for me when comparing it to everything else.

As in, Bret has got some serious unique presence which pretty much stands out from everyone. The guy was doing stuff you weren't used to seeing and of course executing it excellently. The match itself was fun and built and I myself loooved the over the top rope flying body splash at the time. The ending was what truly stood out for me at the time. Always a cool spot sequence but not done often if at all than in the WWF plus it was the opposite of what you expect a face vs heel pinning sequence to be. Bravo who is a heel does a face like move counter to beat a face. Than there was Bret grabbing the trunks too which kind of made him look a little heelish in a way. All of it made it look like a more realistic sporting match instead of a face vs heel exhibition which always goes a particular way. And when you watch a zillion WWF matches you really appreciate the change of pace.

That being said about the tights, Bravo may have supposed to have pulled them and Bret was just pulling them to help the ending sequence come of correctly. Still, what happened is what happened. At the end of the match, there was a lot happening that made me go, "I'm keeping my eye on this guy, he's special, charismatic, striving and capable of even more. Stuff happens in his matches that doesn't happen with others" So yes, this was one of the matches that sold me on Bret.

 

"but it seems weird they would let the LOD pin them clean"

 

The LOD still had the presence around them that they were indestructible and just can't lose against anyone at all. Yes, they could have protected the Hart Foundation more but Bret was someone who was almost never afraid to lose.

[Ricky Jackson]

I had to look this up to be sure, but the match between LOD and the Harts was essentially taped as though it happened AFTER Mania VII, even though it was filmed on 3/12. The Harts came to the ring without the belts and weren't introduced as champs. The match was only shown on the Wrestlefest 91 tape, which wasn't released until after Mania VII.

[JerryvonKramer]

All this talk of Hart vs. Bravo and Wrestlefest 91 is making me nostalgic for my Colisieum VHS tapes hosted by Sean Mooney.

 

If it's the match I'm thinking of, this is 92 sort of time and Bravo has dark hair. In the context of those tapes, a match like that does stand out. It's why my memory of something like DiBiase vs. Warrior from the World Tour is inflated.

 

The "Supertape" series in general is quite a good showcase for what made Bret a bit different in this period. He has a pretty cool match with Rick Martel on one of them and a decentish match for the IC title with IRS. Both worth tracking down for this thread. One with Skinner too.

 

[Random aside: Supertape 92 was the first place I'd seen the Jake vs. Savage feud and blow off in Tuesday in Texas and the promos left me open mouthed.]

 

EDIT: Oh I haven't seen the 89 Bravo match. The one I have in mind was from Germany, the European Rampage tour.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Hawk should be strung out and unprepared more often as I thought he was the best worker in that match.

 

The Bravo match does allow you to see Bret carry someone as opposed to DiBiase, Perfect and Valentine where he is working with equals.

 

Ricky, thanks for explaining that to me. Thinking about it, I didn't see Hart Foundation have the titles and there was no mention of the tag titles. By not knowing that, I didn't predict the finish, which is usual in 95% of these matches.

 

Unfortunately, I could not find any Hart Foundation vs R&B matches around this time as that was the main tag title program in late 1990, which sucks because I basically I don't get to see Valentine for the majority of 1990. We will see the Hart Foundation take on two other Jimmy Hart managed squads, Earthquake & Dino Bravo and the Nasty Boys.

 

WWF Tag Champs Hart Foundation vs Earthquake & Dino Bravo w/Jimmy Hart MSG 3/15/91

 

Just weeks before, the Hart Foundation's clash with Jimmy Hart's Nasty Boys, Jimmy Hart leads Earthquake and Dino Bravo to soften up the Hart Foundation. I always liked when there was intra-stable continuity as sometimes it just seemed liked all wrestlers had in common was their manager. It is cool to see them work together. Even though, I have become quite the mark for Dino Bravo, Earthquake really impressed me in this match as this was the first Tenta match I have ever seen. I could see how that Summerslam 1990 match with Hulk Hogan could be fun and I should watch sometime down the line.

 

The beginning starts with the usual, perfunctory heel in peril arm work on Bravo. Bravo seems awfully subdued and Hart Foundation dont use much in the way of speed to overcome him they just impose their will. Hart Foundation were working too much as a superteam at this point. Bravo is able to get a reverse atomic drop, but Quake misses an elbow. Bret whips Anvil into Quake in their corner. Melee ensues and Bret is caught by Earthquake and slammed hard into the post. This where the match picks up.

 

I would be remiss not to mention that at some point, Lord Alfred says the term "cock-a-hoop", which has me, Gorilla and the Brain saying "What!?!?!" sounds like a pretty bitchin' term once I looked it up. Good job Al! Speaking of the Brain, he gets spit on my Bravo when he misses the Anvil, but Brain still defends him now that's commitment. Quake throws his weight around while Bravo gets a piledriver for 2; Anvil saved. Quake slams/elbow is broken at 2 by Anvil. Earthquake stares a hole into the Anvil. Quake slam again gets broken up. Bravo hits the bearhug.

 

False hot tag leads to the heels double slamming Bret. Quake jumps around to simulate an earthquake, but Anvil bulldozes him over. The Hart Foundation execute a double slam and Anvil slams Bret into Dino for the victory.

 

I really like the heat segment in this match as the offense was entertaining and Bret is such a good face in peril. I liked that Earthquake stood his ground and made the Harts work for it rather than how they treated Bravo as their jobber. There was actually no comeback, which was different. Bret was not afraid to change pace at his own expense. In the Demolition match Anvil looked like the world-beater and here he was again saving Bret's ass. Bret was also a fan of not always using their finish to end matches, which gave his matches a sense of unpredictably. Nothing to go out of your way to see, but further proof that Hart Foundation had improved since their heel days. Still Bret is much better singles wrestler.

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WWF Tag Champs Hart Foundation vs Nasty Boys w/Jimmy Hart - Wrestlemania VII

 

I love the Nasty Boys gimmick as lunkhead, cartoon goons. They remind me of the goons in the Power Rangers in a good way. Wrestling needs more teams like the Nasty Boys. For all intents and purposes the Hart Foundation were done after this and this was pretty fitting way for them to go out in a pretty mediocre match. So much of the Hart Foundation run has either been overrated or just generic. Bret was such a better singles wrestler maybe because he tried harder or had better competition or just knew how to structure his matches better in that environment. The Hart Foundation was a real disappointment. The Nasty Boys are actually pretty good in this match in terms of bumping, but holy shit was their heat segment the shits.

 

The match starts with Bret firing off moves on the Nasties with Knobs bumping a lot better than I remember he could. Knobs goads the Anvil in and Anvil shoulderblocks everyone to a big pop. I know Neidhart had drug problems, but if they gave the New Foundation a bit of a better name and a better push they could have been pretty good. Bret does the 10-count punches in the corner, which I have never seen him do. Did the Nasties actually contribute a spot? Bret hits his Russian Leg Sweep into the second rope elbow gets a 2. Knobs cracks Bret in the back of the neck and Sags capitalizes with a backbreaker. Then in a heat segment that felt interminable the Nasties put Bret into a succession of reverse chinlocks. Knobs accidentally hits Saggs with the megaphone. Anvil is a house afire one last time. Sags is able to save Knobs on a powerslam. Jimmy Hart's hopes for tag team gold remain alive. Bret chases Sags and Sags collides with Knobs in a funny spot. They hit the Hart Attack on Knobs , but ref is busy detaining Bret and they hit Anvil with Jimmy's motorcycle helmet for the win. Jimmy Hart's celebration is one for the ages.

 

The Nasty Boys were perfect transitional champions for the Legion of Doom, which were heirs presumptive to being the babyface ace tag team fucking the Rockers over in the process. The match was pretty much by the numbers and having watched the Halloween Havoc '90 match with Nasties and Steiners you see how much the WWF style can handcuff you. The Hart Foundation had a solid, but uninspiring six year run and if Bret never made it big they would be mentioned like the Bulldogs a good little team.

[NintendoLogic]

I love the Nasty Boys gimmick as lunkhead, cartoon goons.

 

[Sidebottom]

It gets better once you get older and realise it wasn't a gimmick...

[goodhelmet]

Eventually, Loss and I are going to do a podcast discussing Bret Hart. Are there any Bret Hart fans out there who want to join the discussion and explain what makes him so great in your eyes. I don't want somebody to go on to defend him because we plan on heaping a bunch of praise (and criticisms) but this is an opportunity for someone who voted for Bret over Flair to sound off why you think he should be considered one of the all time greats.

[NintendoLogic]

I'd be down for that.

[Grimmas]

Eventually, Loss and I are going to do a podcast discussing Bret Hart. Are there any Bret Hart fans out there who want to join the discussion and explain what makes him so great in your eyes. I don't want somebody to go on to defend him because we plan on heaping a bunch of praise (and criticisms) but this is an opportunity for someone who voted for Bret over Flair to sound off why you think he should be considered one of the all time greats.

I would be down for that, although being Canadian I might be too biased.

[goodhelmet]

I want Canadians! I was going to recruit Dave Musgrave.

[Loss]

You know, there might be Canadians that prefer Flair and Americans that prefer Bret.

[goodhelmet]

I don't think there are any Canadians that bright

[NintendoLogic]

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

[Dylan Waco]

I want Canadians! I was going to recruit Dave Musgrave.

Don't encourage that guy

[Dylan Waco]

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Canada is a town?

[Grimmas]

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Canada is a town?

 

Isn't that what Americans think? Canada is just one big town.

[NintendoLogic]

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Canada is a town?

 

I didn't mean it literally. But you already knew that.

[Marty]

Why does it have to be a Canadian? Are you trying to stack the deck and make it seem like the only way someone could see Bret as an all-time great is due to hometown bias?

Canada is a town?

 

Isn't that what Americans think? Canada is just one big town.

 

Hey, in 1997, Bret did not want to job in his home town.

[Kevin Ridge]

Didn't Bret win a couple awards in Germany for Athlete of the Year? I want to hear the German fan base talk about Bret as the greatest.

[NintendoLogic]

It's true. He was voted Athlete of the Year three years in a row by Bravo magazine (which, as far as I can tell, is the German equivalent of Tiger Beat).

[goodhelmet]

I am going to discuss the format with Loss and then send out an open invitation when we do the show.

[khawk20]

I am going to discuss the format with Loss and then send out an open invitation when we do the show.

Why not just make it a call-in show?

[goodhelmet]

I am going to discuss the format with Loss and then send out an open invitation when we do the show.

Why not just make it a call-in show?

 

OK, I think an open ended call in show using talk shoe would be a pain in the ass. We have a panel of 6-7 people right now including TWO CANADIANS!!! If Bret can't get a fair shake with 2 Canadians, there isn't anything else I can do. Putting three Canadians on one panel would probably melt my computer.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Can Bret pull off the same miracle as Shawn & Marty?

 

Hart Foundation vs Powers of Pain - Wrestlefest '90

 

It is worth noting that the Hart Foundation are once again talking about winning the tag titles foreshadowing that Bret has returned solidly to the tag ranks.

 

The short answer is no with a caveat. This would be a very good match if Warlord did not suck out loud. The Rockers made Warlord look good by making him take some bumps early and bumping huge for him. Bret actually makes him sell arm work. Yes it should be on Warlord for sucking, but Bret should recognize this and adapt. God if Barbie just had a different partner. The way Warlord just sat in those arm holds was just embarrassing to watch. Counter to this was Barbie/Anvil battle of the bulls and then Bret crawling through Barbie's legs to let Anvil clothesline him. This was some fun face shine, but gets bogged down once Warlord is in there. The transition was lame as it was Warlord just picking up Bret and giving him a backbreaker. Warlord wrung his arm at least. Barbie hit his wicked sweet headbutt and big boot to Bret. Watching all this Bret reminds me how great his selling is. For so long I was focused on how amazing his offense was for a North American wrestler. Bret hits a boot in the corner and the Anvil is hot. Fuji trips up Anvil and a melee ensues. Fuji hits Warlord with his cane and Anvil beats the count for the victory. POP try to get their heat back, but Bret apprehends the cane and goes to town.

 

Nothing worth going out of your way to see, but it is pretty decent. The second best Powers of Pain match I have seen, not that is high praise.

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Fuck, it looks like I would have to buy the new Bret Hart DVD to see the Twin Towers match. Who knew Akeem would be a draw in 2013? On second thought, omitting that match and just wrapping up Hart Foundation with Busters may be for the best.

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WWF World Tag Team Champs The Brain Busters vs Hart Foundation - Summerslam '89 Non-title

 

Non-title due to this match being signed before Busters' title victory. The Busters just loved to bump and sell for WWF babyfaces. Maybe, it was not Eadie's fault at all, it may just be how the Busters wanted to work. Like I am not a person to claim heels need to be a faces level because they really should not. The babyfaces should be better except the heels utilize nefarious tactics, but at the same time heels should not be out and out jabronis. I didn't mind this match as much because we do get a heat segment (on Anvil, weird), but still the Hart Foundation gobbled them up. At first, I felt a bit hypocritical for enjoying this match a lot more than the Demolition matches especially after raising such a big stink. At the end of the day, I rather watch Bret Hart's offense than Demolition's offense. I still don't think it is one of the elite tag team matches of 80s WWF, but it is still very good. I would actually put it around the Summerslam '89 six-man tag in terms of quality.

 

The Hart Foundation establishes the arm-based attack on both Busters each time they come in. The best spot of this segment really encapsulates Bret and something I never really thought about. Arn executes a drop toehold into a hammerlock, but rides high and Bret counters to a headlock. Bret just has this look on his face that was just like one big eye-roll and I immediately thought of Tenryu. Bret is amazing at displaying contempt for his opponents. He is one of the few wrestlers that is not only condescending on the mic, but is actually condescending in the ring also. Bret does an excellent top wristlock bridge transitions into the Busters double top wristlock spot that always gets a huge pop. Arn blindsides Bret, but this was not the transition as Bret is back on offense. However, Arn pulls Tully out of the way and Anvil eats the turnbuckles. We get the Anvil FIP, which is weird and no spinebuster. It is decent stuff, but you know it can be better. They do Arn's head collision spot and Bobby's facial expression that makes it. Then the Hart Foundation sliding knee on the apron is the transition. After watching basically every major Hart Foundation match, I marked out that Bret did that to transition. I have watched this match twice before and I never even batted an eye. This time I was like "Of course that was the transition. That's genius!" Bret kicks some serious Tully ass and then runs through Tully. It is breaking loose in Tulsa and Anvil is slingshotted in (love that spot) and then slams Bret onto Tully. Heenan distracts the ref and Arn second-rope elbow costs Hart Foundation the match as AA gets the pin. The nice little touch is he uses Bret's arm to cover his head so that ref won't notice.

 

This is a really fun match, but like a lot Hart Foundation matches I have watched, but it feels mechanical and exhibition-y at the beginning. However, it is still a fun match that is enjoyable. I am just happier with the idea that Bret Hart vs AA & Tully exists more than it in practice. I know one of the things that people go after the Rockers for not having that money feud, but Hart Foundation did not have one from 1988-1991 that's pretty incredible. It was just how WWF tag scene was booked with Demolition going from POP, Towers, Busters, Colossal Connection, but they pretty much leave all the other tag teams to float in the wind. With that match, I close the book on Hart Foundation and Busters. I just have some Demolition and Rockers matches to finish up. Maybe I will sneak in some more Valentine.

[efrim]

When you guys do the podcast, I'd be interested in hearing about Bret's role in expanding the euro/worldwide presence of the WWF. His international appeal is something he talks up a lot about in his book (as I recall) - I would be interested in a discussion of how much of that is earned and how much is a convenient narrative.