Kostka Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Jeez Dylan...it's going to be okay... :-) I agree that Punk/Rock/Cena seems likely at this point. I dont particularly care for triple threats as a rule, but i think its an okay idea. Does this mean Taker/Lesnar for Takers match? That has a more special attraction feel which is needed for Takers once-a-year epics. I can't imagine them still thinking about Taker/Punk after last night. I'm more curious how the world title match will be booked for mania. Some combination of Sheamus, Del Rio, Orton and Big Show? I'm guessing Ziggler beats Jericho early in the card, then cashes in after the World title match. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I honestly can't believe anyone could like that finish. I literally find that astounding to the point where I can't imagine what anyone who liked that finish would think a bad finish would look like.I liked it. What can I tell ya? Here's something I don't like. Mania is in New Jersey, not New York. This whole "NY/NJ" stuff is fucking horseshit. I LOVE NYC, always have. But Mania is in Jersey, period. Fucking typical Jersey disrespect. The HOF ceremony is taking place in MSG, which last I checked is still in New York. Plus NYC has more of a cache than billing your top event as just in New Jersey. That's why the Giants and Jets don't bill themselves from Jersey and no one ever accused them of disrespect. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 If I had to guess they will go with Del Rio v. Ziggler for the World title and Sheamus, Orton, Jericho v. The Shield. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Good god... this is total babyface shit. The Shield's (and Punk & Heyman's) Grand Plan fails, and Rock keeps his chance at winning the title (and does it). Great shit. It definitely sounds that way. But did you see it? Didn't exactly come off that hot as executed. Pretty deflating. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Punk looks like a loser and a pussy. He's a heel champ and I bet one can find a dozen pussy and loser things he's done in his 400+ days a champ. Okay... probably two dozen. The Shield looked stupid and ineffective. They're heel lackies of Punk who have been fucking over Punk's opponents since Survivors. This was their payback: their plan to help Punk defeated Rock "worked"... but Vince wouldn't let it stand, it didn't work. Heels get fucked after fucking faces. Pro Wrestling 101. Rock looked like a guy who was just getting favors from the boss. Vince: "I'm going to strip Punk of the title due to The Shield fucking up the match." Rock: "Wait a fucking minute, Vince. Don't strip him. They tried to fuck me out out my shot at winning the title. I want to beat his fucking ass... restart the fucking match!" Vince: "You got balls the size of grapefruits, Rock, for wanting to continue the match after the ass kicking that The Shield and Punk just gave you. I respect that... I'm going to restart the match!" That ain't a favor. Heels fucked up a main event yet again to fuck over the face(s). Vince has had enough of it, and is going to strip Punk of the title which would hurt Punk because he really loves the egofuck of the long reign. Rock doesn't want his chance at the title fucked up because of the heels, and asks for a restart. Good god... this is total babyface shit. The Shield's (and Punk & Heyman's) Grand Plan fails, and Rock keeps his chance at winning the title (and does it). Great shit. John As arguably the biggest non-Johnny Sorrow WWE fan on this board I guess I just hate pro wrestling 101, because I don't find this argument convincing at all and thought it came off as incredibly obvious dog shit to the point where I would be more willing to listen to someone explain to me why Jeep Swenson is the great forgotten worker of the 80's, then I would accept that this was even a pretty good finish, let alone a textbook example of "great shit" in wrestling. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WingedEagle Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 I might be able to see that it reads as a good finish. But it sure as hell did not play out that way. It was awful. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Childs Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Most of the show made sense on paper, but none of it really excited me as a viewer. I agree with those who've said the Rumble match was well-worked, but I kept waiting for a wow moment in the last 10 entries and it just never came. Given the last five, I assumed Cena would win, and they did nothing to unsettle my expectations for even a moment. I'm fine with Cena-Rock II at 'Mania, but I'm not so excited about it that I wanted it to become a fait accompli with two months to go. I was into the body of the main event, even though Rock looked pretty shitty at points. But the execution of the finishing stretch didn't pop. For one, I wish they hadn't built the booking around Vince's anti-Shield proclamation. Just let Rock find a way to fight off the Shield. And then, after months of promos about Punk's pride in his reign, he went out like a lamb to a shitty spinebuster and that fucking elbow. At least let the man show some desperation to hold onto a belt that has validated his career. None of what they did was wildly illogical. But it sure as shit didn't feel special. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 When you boil it down, it seems like most people are just upset Rock won with the elbow more than anything else. As if it somehow invalidates Punk's year-plus reign to lose to a move that's been a signature for over a decade. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 It did stand out to me that he was using it as a finisher instead of the Rock Bottom. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NintendoLogic Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 The elbow put down Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania. It's a perfectly legitimate finisher. And he had already hit Punk with two Rock Bottoms at that point. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sek69 Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 Hogan used a leg drop for decades, the AA is just a basic fireman's carry. As long as it's established as something that can end a match, it doesn't matter if it's a wristlock or a triple flip brain busting suplex, Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loss Posted January 28, 2013 Report Share Posted January 28, 2013 No, I just mean that most of the time, Rock didn't use the People's Elbow as a finisher. He used the Rock Bottom, or even the sharpshooter. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kostka Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Really? Maybe I'm misremembering, but the People's Elbow seems as regular a finisher as the Rock Bottom. I just don't see the problem, I guess. To me it's like saying "Andre lost to....a fucking leg drop?" Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
evilclown Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 When you boil it down, it seems like most people are just upset Rock won with the elbow more than anything else. As if it somehow invalidates Punk's year-plus reign to lose to a move that's been a signature for over a decade. Some of the vitriol amazes me. One of the 20 biggest drawing cards in wrestling history, a legitimate living legend, is supposed to beat up a guy who isn't even the main star during his year plus title reign. The fans who somehow expected Punk to win were living in an alternate universe. The fact that he beat him in the middle, with his iconic move that has stopped some of wrestling's biggest stars, is just icing on the cake. Isn't the star babyface supposed to win this way? He overcame all the odds and then took the hard path rather than let Vince do his dirty work for him. That's what being a hero is all about. Now, if you were turning Cena? How about this—it wasn't the Shield who ran in to ultimately cost Punk. It was John Cena who was desperately wanting to avoid the Rock at Wrestlemania. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveJRogers Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I honestly can't believe anyone could like that finish. I literally find that astounding to the point where I can't imagine what anyone who liked that finish would think a bad finish would look like.I liked it. What can I tell ya? Here's something I don't like. Mania is in New Jersey, not New York. This whole "NY/NJ" stuff is fucking horseshit. I LOVE NYC, always have. But Mania is in Jersey, period. Fucking typical Jersey disrespect. The HOF ceremony is taking place in MSG, which last I checked is still in New York. Plus NYC has more of a cache than billing your top event as just in New Jersey. That's why the Giants and Jets don't bill themselves from Jersey and no one ever accused them of disrespect. The Super Bowl in 2014 will also be in MetLife Stadium and the the host city is also referred to as NY/NJ. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Good god... this is total babyface shit. The Shield's (and Punk & Heyman's) Grand Plan fails, and Rock keeps his chance at winning the title (and does it). Great shit. It definitely sounds that way. But did you see it? Didn't exactly come off that hot as executed. Pretty deflating. Okay... so I just tracked down a video of it. We have: * Rock kicking the living shit out of Punk * Rock hitting the spine buster * Rock setting up for the People's Elbow which will win him the title * lights go out * lights come on and Rock is through the annoucer's table * Punk "wakes up" and has a total shit eating grin on his face because his Evil Overlord Plan has worked! Maybe I'm exagerating the Evil Overlord part... no... wait... * Punk starts laughing an Evil Overload Diabolical Laugh~! * When he gets over to the ropes, he does a douchey chickenshit "Oh my, what happened to Rock?" hand signal Okay, so I'm suppose to work up some sympathy for anything Vince does to him coming up, or think he's anything but A Giant Douchebag Heel, and that Rock is another other than The Super Babyface Who Just Got Fucked Over? Yeah... I'm ready for any level of fucking that Punk takes now for his Evil Plan, especially coming on the heels of his prior Evil Plans to retain his title for more than a year. Back to the tape... * he leaves the ring, limps over to Rock, and does another, "Wow... I don't know what happened to Rock" hand gesture Give it up to Punk, as he's selling the hell out of being an asshole. I'd like to add: Rock is selling the FUCK out of getting hosed by Punk's lackies, going all "deadweight" and making it look like Punk really has to work to get him back in. Well done, Rock. * they don't even fuck around and have Rock kick out: he is fucking OUT OF IT! and get pinned instantly by Punk I'm digging this. * Crowd is STUNNED~! by this turn of events... this is NOT! how the expected it to go down * Punk works even harder to get across what a jerkoff he is by literally kicking the limp Rock out of the ring... * and what a douche he is by waving "bye bye" to Rock when he flops to the floor... * and by having a good old time celebrating in the ring afterwards Wait... what's this? * God bless him, Mr. McMahon comes out to set Punk straight * the crowd is loving it, including some bowing down to Vince * I admit... I'm starting to mark out right about now * Punk and Paul are wondering what the fuck is going on * Oh... what's this... some internal logic in the storyline? * "I told you that if the Shield got involved in your match I'd strip you of the title" -Vince paraphrased Okay... so know the Lights Going Out make sense: Vince had a clear stip that if those fuckers got involved in the match, it would be bye-bye title. Wil E. Heymanyote and Punk thought they'd pull one over on Mr. McMahon by having the light cut out. And Mr. McMahon wasn't falling for that shit. Did I mention "God bless Mr. McMahon"? Wait... it gets fucking better... * Paul and Punk know they've totally been caught and are BEGGING Mr. McMahon not to strip the title * Vince is about to strip him, which the crowd is popping for because even if Rock doesn't win the title, they want Punk FUCKED and taking his precious title from him is a damn fine fucking Wait... it get's better... * "No... no... no..." just fucking awesome: an out of it Rock cuts off Vince *before* he can strip Punk of the title * Punk and Heyman sell the fuck out of it by looking around towards Rock * "We ain't end this night like that" and holy shit if the fans don't know EXACTLY what Rock has in mind since they're popping * "You don't take it from him... I am!" and the crowd pops again for that shit. * "Restart the match... NOW!" and another pop. Yeah... fucking Awesome! * Rock is awesome selling he's still half out of it * Vince has a great constipated look on his face, because he knows that Rock is out of it and Punk might still escape with the title Did I mention God Bless Mr. McMahon? * "You heard the man... RESTART THE MATCH!" And WON voters are telling me that Heyman is the best non-wrestler in the business? Paul still can't carry (let alone sniff) Vince's jock strap. Vince was fucking perfect from start to finish in this. No fucking way is he "doing favors" for Rock: he's out here pissed off at Punk and ready to fuck him over by taking his beloved title away. But Rock wants payback, and Vince is willing to chance it to have Punk actually go down for the three count rather than the easy way of the strip. This is like Vince channeling Giant Baba with Jumbo-Misawa: we ain't doing no COR here, we're going to have a winner and a loser, even if it's that asshole Punk... it's a risk I'm willing to take. * Punk is non too happy, tossing the belt down and selling being pissed... while Paul also is pissed * Rock is still selling the Shield damage, slowly getting into the ring and collapsing in the corner * Punk is pretty damn awesome letting all the HATE~! come through as he stomps a mudhole in Rock * Rock is still selling the fuck out of things * great diving elbow, great selling of the splat by Rock (kicking up his legs), and a wicked kick out * Punk hams it up as the Evil Overlord signaling for the GTS * Nice job of the Rock countering out of it and hitting the spinebuster and... *looks up the post* HOLY SHIT! We've come FULL CIRCLE~! We're EXACTLY where we were when The Lights Went Out! Masterful storytelling as all of Punk's Evil Plans have backfired and led us back to the same point in time. Only... This time The Lights DON'T Go Out, Rock hits the People's Elbow... 1... 2... 3~! New World Champion! Crowd loses their shit! Perfect end to Punk's reign. The Anti-Sports Entertainment Wrestler got beat by... wait for it... A Sports Entertainment Finish! Sorry, that was a fucking great WWF/WWE finish. I'm digging it the most. Ten billion stars. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tigerpride Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The elbow put down Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania. It's a perfectly legitimate finisher. And he had already hit Punk with two Rock Bottoms at that point. He hit Hogan with two Rock Bottoms and then hit the People's Elbow. This was different. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 When you boil it down, it seems like most people are just upset Rock won with the elbow more than anything else. As if it somehow invalidates Punk's year-plus reign to lose to a move that's been a signature for over a decade. My general thought would be: WrestleMania X-8 - Toronto, Ontario - Skydome - March 17, 2002 The Rock pinned Hulk Hogan at 16:23 with two Rock Bottoms and the People's Elbow after avoiding the legdrop If Hulk Hogan, one of the two biggest stars in history, can lay down to The People's Elbow at WrestleMania... then Punk can lay down to The People's Elbow at the Rumble. I mean... it's perfect for Punk's reign to end by eating the Elbow. And for his fans to look forward to Punk bitching and moaning about it for the next five years. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 The elbow put down Hulk Hogan at Wrestlemania. It's a perfectly legitimate finisher. And he had already hit Punk with two Rock Bottoms at that point. He hit Hogan with two Rock Bottoms and then hit the People's Elbow. This was different. Two rock bottoms rather than a spinebuster. I think the difference might be: Hogan > Punk When it comes to putting him down. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 If that's a great finish then bring on the shitty finishes from now until the end of time. I do enjoy that this is one of the few things in recent memory I can remember the WWE doing that John is on record as loving. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JerryvonKramer Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I saw Hogan take 5 Randy Savage elbows once and he still got up. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Log Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I saw Hogan take 5 Randy Savage elbows once and he still got up. The last one was accidentally a "reviving" elbow. On Punk/Rock (heh!)...I had a friend over who's an old-school wrestling fan, but has lapsed for quite a few years. When Rock asked that the match continue, he said "I've got chills!" Also, a guy I work with got the Rumble for his son who's 6. He said the kid was in tears when Punk originally won, then jumping for joy when Rock won. I have some problems with the finish, too. But I'd say they nailed it with their target audience. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 Not everything can be a Tiger Driver '91. On the other hand: * Punk was essentially a Bitch Champ down the stretch of his reign * Punk needed The Shield to help him retain the title over faces who were/are stronger than him * those screwed over face challenges * this one tied into prior Punk + Shield finishes * Punk went to the well again here * this one was flipped for Punk to finally get his So there was internal story logic #1. * this one tied into Vince specifically saying he'd strip Punk if they got involved * Punk & Heyman thought they came up with an Evil Plot to trick Vince * Vince saw through it and was going to strip Punk anyway Internal story logic #2. * Rock got screwed by the run in * stripping Punk would left in place Rock getting screwed * Rock asked for the match to re-start to keep from getting screwed * Vince re-started the match Internal story logic #3. * Spinebuster to set up The People's Elbow before the lights went out * Rock "would have won" if the lights didn't go out * full circle to Spinebuster to set up The People's Elbow when the match restarted * no lights out, Rock hit it and won... proving he would have won of The Shield hadn't save Punk earlier Internal story logic #4. Now I won't vouch for the match prior to the spinebuster + TPE + Lights Go Out spot since I haven't had time to sift through it. But the finish... it worked, and in a WWF/WWE context it works pretty damn well. Heel has been fucking faces. Heel told to knock it off. Heel has Evil Master Plan to get away with it again. Heel gets caught. Heel's plan collapses on him. Heel losing the thing he loves most in life. Storybook stuff. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jdw Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 If that's a great finish then bring on the shitty finishes from now until the end of time. I do enjoy that this is one of the few things in recent memory I can remember the WWE doing that John is on record as loving. I keep pointing to loving Taker beating Shawn in back-to-back Manias and then being Hunter in back-to-back Manias. John Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dylan Waco Posted January 29, 2013 Report Share Posted January 29, 2013 I have some problems with the finish, too. But I'd say they nailed it with their target audience. This may very well be true. It could be that the WWE has finally reached the point with me where I just can't stand what they are offering anymore and I will finally gravitate away from the product as so many others have done. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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