Bob Backlund

[Johnny Sorrow]

The first match in that Patterson/ Backlund MSG series is fucking tremendous.

[shoe]

Bob Backlund vs. Harley Race 9/22/80

 

Wow this was pretty mediocre. The guys went 35 minutes and I bet Backlund took about 27 minutes of it. I guess Harley's job was too make Backlund look good since at the time the WWF was just a territory. We talked about taking too much of the match on our recent Titans of Wrestling show. To me this is an example of it being bad. Both guys are billed as the World Champ so to me you would want to take more of the match if I was Race. The finish was a Race DQ that made it look like Backlund was on the verge of winning the title. They could of done this finish and allowed Race to look stronger during the match. People complain about Flair looking like a bitch to the Von Erichs, here I think it might even be worse.

 

The action was pretty ho hum. Backlund worked multiple long headlock segments and didn't really do much with it. Race was content for the most part to sit in the headlock. Race did some stuff while sitting in the headlock, but not enough to make it interesting. I've seen Backlund work interesting headlock spots before, but not here. Race's offense consisted mainly of hope spots that Bob would cut off pretty quickly. What a shame, I was really looking forward to this match.

[Ricky Jackson]

I think I'm the only person who liked that match. I'll have to watch it again some day, but I thought it was pretty good the first time. I'm a big mark for heated atmosphere and MSG had a special kind of buzz that night, with many likely feeling they were going to see history and Bob come out of the match NWA champ. I thought the match was well-worked and dug the headlock spots. But I am an unabashed Backlund lover.

[jdw]

Unlikely you're the only person who liked it. To avoid spamming, by my comments from several years ago were tossed in the Race thread.

[Superstar Sleeze]

I have been meaning to watch that match forever and I am avoiding the reviews for now, but I will try to contribute soon.

 

WWF World Heavyweight Champion Bob Backlund vs Ivan Koloff - MSG 8/78

 

This is pretty fuckin' awesome match and a real eye-opener to how good Uncle Ivan was in comparison to other 70s heels. Although, I thought he was bigger, he seemed pretty small against Backlund. Unfortunately, there is some clipping in this match so you do not get all the transitions, but what I did see was really great matwork and a very energetic match. That being said and maybe it is because I am missing some transitions I felt that some of the selling was neglected as the match progressed. It almost comes across as a matwork spotfest. Backlund uses the headscissors instead of the headlock as his go-to work hold and they do some really cool stuff as compared to Murdoch/O'Connor (a total borefest in my opinion). Backlund transitioning out of a double wristlock to a headscissors was incredible as well as Koloff's work to get out of this headscissors. The bridge work is an excellent display of Backlund's crazy strength. Koloff uses his strength to place Backlund on the top turn turnbuckle, which is important for later on. We go from knucklelock to a Koloff headscissors, but Backlund headstands out and gets his own headscissors after a dropkick. Backlund gets his side headlock, but Koloff pretty quickly gets a hair pull into his own headscissors, which I really liked. Backlund working his hardest to get out of headscissor with a sweet bridge and Koloff is smart to realize he is about break out and just breaks it himself to drop a knee. Koloff has a pretty sweet offensive flurry before Backlund catches his foot and does some pretty solid leg work, but due to cutting Koloff ends up in a short-arm scissors so that Backlund can do his dead weight lift spot to place Koloff on the top rope and punctuates it with a slap. Backlund gets a nice back body drop and right back to the leg, not exactly selling the arm. I love a double gut stomp, such a great heel move. They do some intense tussling and they knock heads causing Backlund to fall out of the ring. Koloff kicks Backlund's ass, but Koloff whiffs on a kneedrop. Koloff hits a pretty wicked stomp from the top onto Backlund's head when he is on the apron, which busts Backlund open. Koloff levels him with a big boot in the face, but huge Backlund comeback that is wicked with the ref throwing the whole thing out before the Backlund atomic drop.

 

I loved the mat work and all the struggle. They do a lot of heated transitions even if it is just a dropkick or a knee working hard to progress the match. You get a lot of Backlund spots: mirror dead lift spots, the great work in the holds and Backlund's heated moves. Also, compared to so many heels, Koloff really has a lot of offense and is really trying to match Backlund's energy in these holds. The ending stuff is a really good display of Koloff as a 70s offensive dynamo with backbreaker, vertical suplex and flying kneedrop. The climax of the match was that really sweet stomp from the top that would looks good enough to put on TV right now and use it as a spot to write someone out. Backlund's comeback makes me really want to see the rematch, but I don't see it uploaded. I expected this to be gnarly, dastardly foreigner against clean cut super babyface, but it is almost worked as a face vs face mat clinic with Koloff heating things up with nasty knees. I thoroughly enjoyed this as one of the better WWF clinics that cut a great pace.

 

So John or anybody else, do we have the September MSG match?

[Ricky Jackson]

That was a really good match. The September 78 match was on one of the dreaded untelevised cards, so it looks like the answer is no.

[khawk20]

Although, I thought he was bigger, he seemed pretty small against Backlund.

By this time Ivan had dropped a lot of weight compared to his work in the early 70's. the number often thrown around is about 50 pounds (from around 300 to 250-ish). Would explain it, if true, and from the limited AWA I've seen of Koloff in 72-73, I'd say it is.

 

Also the rematch I don't think is available right now. Damn shame since this match was the kind that made you really want to see a rematch.

[Superstar Sleeze]

More Bob in Japan!

 

Bob Backlund vs Riki Choshu 8/24/84 New Japan

 

Choshu King Prick vs the respectful All-American Boy in Japan and really shows how over Choshu heel run was given the crowd reactions. Backlund extends the hand early as a sign of respect and Choshu ignores him. This is a really tough and gritty match. It feels like a real struggle in every moment of the match to gain the advantage on your opponent. I am not accustomed to this much Choshu matwork (I have only watched 90s Choshu and some of the All Japan tags), but it is Backlund match so this was a cool showcase for this side of Choshu. Some of the highlights was Backlund's bridge out of the headscissors and Backlund's ridiculous short-arm scissors pick-up. What I love is that Choshu does not just let Backlund slap him; he hits an immediate cross-body, which was really cool. Choshu goes for the Scorpion, but Backlund fights him off and the go back to the knucklelock for the third time and Choshu goes for the fireman's carry out of it, but again Backlund blocks. Choshu finally says "Fuck It" and kicks him in the gut. At about 15 minutes in, that is the first strike of the match and Backlund sells this kick as well as you will ever see a kick to gut. That was such a great climax to all the tenacious matwork for Choshu King Prick just to kick him in the gut. The ref has to hold Choshu back from following up, but Backlund kicks out at 2. The Japanese crowd actually cheers Backlund's comeback, but that is stopped short by a clothesline. However, Backlund press slams Choshu off the top rope, before picking him up in the airplane spin. This has debilitating effects on Backlund too as they both tumble to the outside where they both struggle to beat the count, but it is a double countout. Again, Choshu ignores the Backlund hand shake. Ooooooooooooo!

 

The finish is pretty lame and yeah I know it was commonplace in Japan, but just because the standard operating practice doesn't make it good. I loved the build to Choshu finally just kicking Backlund in the gut. If this had a better home stretch it was an all-time classic. It was some real good gritty matwork, with a great hook, but missed that final piece to really put it over the top.

[Superstar Sleeze]

Bob in the 90s!

 

Bob Backlund vs Doink The Clown - 06/93

 

JR informs us that Yoko just beat Hogan for the title putting this somewhere in June of '93. I have seen plenty of evil Doink to see he is one of the better mat-focused wrestlers that WWF has ever had. It is still pretty surreal that Backlund and Doink The Clown had a really good worked amateur match. Backlund got a couple got highspots like blocking hiptoss into an ab stretch and vertical suplex. I was really impressed with how they worked the amateur rides, which I think is a spot Swagger & amateur should crib. Doink catches Backlund with a cradle after 5 or minutes. Good for what it was.

 

Bob Backlund vs Bret Hart - MSG 6/93 Fancam

 

Not the best fancam work, but after kinda choppy first five minutes, the fan settles in. Backlund played the subtle heel in this match, but early on they kept things civil, but heated. I liked the struggle over the hiptoss a lot,but it was mostly just Bob wrenching the headlock and Bret working the arm. Eventually Bob is able to grab a leg and he does some nice leg work and the match finally starts to move. They do a really nice quick pinfall sequence out of a Boston crab. Bret is able to grab a chicken wing out of a leg lace, which Bob counters into this pretty crazy pinning predicament. Bret applies the rolling short arm scissors and Bob's power spot does not look as cool on Bret. Bret does a Choshu and immediately cross bodies Backlund. Backlund follows up with a belly to back suplex, but only gets two. They work a pretty hot home stretch with Backlund making Bret extend his normal home stretch moves by adding counters. There is a great struggle over a verticla suplex that ends with a Bret inside cradle. The little kid watching with his dad starts rooting for Backlund, which is funny to me. Bob smokes Bret with a forearm out of the corner that gets a big gasp thanks in part to Bret's awesome sell. Backlund does his spinning bootrake. Backlund threatens to elbow Bret in the head, but refrains. Instead, he hits a biggggggggggg atomic drop and a wicked piledriver for 2. Backlund tries to get the Bret roll-up, but Bret rolls through to get 3 much to the chagrin of the erstwhile young lad, who had become a Backlund fan.

 

This is like a NJPW Juniors match where if you JIP halfway through you would probably rate this as a pretty damn good match with great work by both. However, the first 15 minutes is a chore to sit through and the second half is not that incredible to make up for the pedestrian beginning. It is more of a disappointing match than anything. Their July '94 match remains their match to watch.

[jdw]

More Bob in Japan!

 

Bob Backlund vs Riki Choshu 8/24/84 New Japan

I like this one as well. Kind of a shockingly fun match. It's interesting that Choshu had much more entertaining matches with Bob (1984) and Rick Martel (1985) than he did with Flair (1985) in that era.

 

John

[rainmakerrtv]

The first match in that Patterson/ Backlund MSG series is fucking tremendous.

Was that 7/30/1979? That's the one on the gh Backlund comp.

[Ricky Jackson]

Yeah, 7/30/79. One of Backlund's greatest matches. We discussed it on this show:http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=21025

[rainmakerrtv]

Yeah, 7/30/79. One of Backlund's greatest matches. We discussed it on this show:http://prowrestlingonly.com/index.php?showtopic=21025

Thanks a lot Ricky, I will check it out, both the show and the match (haven't watched it in some time).

[Johnny Sorrow]

I just watched Backlund vs Patera Texas Death Match from MSG 5/19/80, it was awesome.It also has one of the sickest piledrivers ever.

[Dylan Waco]

Best non-Buddy Rose match of 1980.

[shoe]

In general Bob does a great pile driver .

[KB8]

I actually thought the TDM was right on the level with all of the Buddy stuff from '80, and maybe even better than it. Maybe.

[JerryvonKramer]

Just about to record Titans, but as a sneak peak I'm fucking pissed off at the atrocity that is Backlund vs Race. Wrestling matches don't annoy me very often, this one did.

 

Bob Backlund vs. Harley Race: Unification Match (9/22/80) - MSG

 

Strong heel reaction to Race. Backlund very over with the crowd. The idea that he wasn't over is obviously not true.

 

Headlock city from Backlund to start.

 

Thesz press! Big bodyslam. Headlock takeover. All Backlund so far, 5.30.

 

Bridges up and then back down into the headlock.

 

10:00 still got the headlock on. He is really wrenching on it. Race kicks the mat a lot. But it's still just a fucking headlock.

 

Transition is threatended as Race goes to the eyes and tries a gutwrench but it is reversed and then Backlund slams him big. Another headlock takeover now and back into the headlock. Backlund misses an elbow, Race goes for the headbutt. Misses.

 

Fuck's sake. 13 mins now.

 

Race goes for a series of nearfalls. Backlund stays on the headlock despite that. PAUCITY OF IMAGINATION.

 

Keeps it on upright. 16mins.

 

Couple of knees and is that our transition? No, he goes for a suplex and can't hit it, Backlund reverses and just to say "fuck you" does a delayed one instead. Backlund goes, surprise, surprise, back to the headlock. NO IMAGINATION AT ALL. 18 minutes.

 

Starting to think we won't actually see a transition at this stage.

 

Race goes for a belly-to-back, Backlund reverses it into a German. Headlock takeover into ... a fucking headlock. Wrenching and wrenching and wrenching now.

 

The psychology of this match is totally retarded. Backlund stays on top for the entirety of the match, KILLING Race who can't even get a single transitional move in. No control segment.

 

FINALLY at 22 minutes Race gets in a back suplex. Top rope. Slammed off. He was on top for all for 25 seconds there. AND Backlund no sold the suplex.

 

Atomic drop now. Race rolls out of the ring. Fuck this match. Stupid, idiotic and backwards psychology.

 

Do we need 20 minutes to establish that:

 

1. Backlund is superman and has no vulnerabilities whatsoever.

 

2. Race is weak as a kitten and even if he gets some offense in, it has no effect any way.

 

It's like watching Superman fight The Riddler here. Fucking pathetic.

 

Is the intention to bury the NWA and its champion?

 

Race gets in an eye rake and a knee drop now. ONE COUNT. Barely a one count.

 

Race now hits a piledriver. Diving headbutt. At least this has slowed the superman. Snapmare. Diving headbutt. Alright! 24 minutes in and we have a control segment for race. Piledriver?? No. Backlund reverses.

 

Well that lasted all of 2 minutes and now Backlund KILLS Race with his own Zangief piledriver. 2 count. Race barely kicks out.

 

So what was the story of that little bit? Backlund's piledriver is better than Race's. Backlund is better than Race. Backlund has Race's number. Race can't actually hurt Backlund.

 

Race goes to the second rope now and misses his umpteenth diving headbutt. Takes a big bump to the outside.

 

Backlund hits a massive butterfly suplex now.

 

Action goes outside the ring. Race gets in a few punches on the floor.

 

Arnold Skaaland complains to the ref. At least he stayed at ringside tonight.

 

Another jab by Race now and Backlund tumbles over the top rope back into the ring. But OF COURSE, this doesn't give us our next section of offense for Race because Backlund promptly plants his head into the steel post and Race falls back down outside the ring.

 

We get it! Race sucks. Backlund rules. Nothing Race can do will affect Backlund in anyway!

 

Race is busted open now. Swinging neckbreaker by Backlund -- hey, at least he's finding a second way to work on that neck! Gutwrench suplex by Backlund. Sleeperhold now.

 

The crowd is pretty wild. Race is bloodied. Destroyed. Fading. Ref falls over. Then gets up and raises Backlund's hand.

 

Backlund jumps up and down. The crowd is crazy. We wait for an official announcement. Finkel: 35 minutes 45 seconds, the ref has DQ'd Harley Race. Why? What for?

 

Oh fuck this shit,

 

I fucking hated this match. It's offensive to me as a fan. The most idiotically worked match I've ever seen.

 

-***

[Dylan Waco]

I'm just happy you've trashed a match harder than Rheingans v. Martel now

[ohtani's jacket]

It's impressive that a 33 year-old match can offend you that much. It's like it's been lying in wait your entire life to offend you.

[Matt D]

It's impressive that a 33 year-old match can offend you that much. It's like it's been lying in wait your entire life to offend you.

I know what that feels like.

[Frankensteiner]

Jerry should watch that Flair/Garvin match from the Superstars special. Flair gets off a few chops and I think some type of suplex and has no other offense in that match whatsoever. Something tells me the review would be a lot different.

[Loss]

Jerry should watch that Flair/Garvin match from the Superstars special. Flair gets off a few chops and I think some type of suplex and has no other offense in that match whatsoever. Something tells me the review would be a lot different.

Jerry has watched that match and did a podcast covering it.

[JerryvonKramer]

I've analysed Flair vs. Garvin matches in some depth.

 

I've analysed many Flair matches in some depth.

 

Flair almost always does enough to get over the idea of him being a world class wrestler. Sometimes the extended shine sequences come across like they are a type of mind game: Flair knows he can take it, he knows he can go as long as it needs to and that the face will slip up or make a mistake or get blown up sooner or later.

 

Key thing is that once the transition happens, Flair gets his shit in and you're never really in doubt that this guy is an amazing wrestler. The only match off the top of my head where Flair really doesn't get enough is vs. Hogan in 94. I've always thought Hogan treated him like a jobber in that match.

 

I have a problem with the Tully vs. Garvin matches though, which are worked with Garvin getting 99% of the offense and Tully stealing a cheap win. The psychology is backwards and stupid. Although it can at least be justified: Tully was more of a chicken-shit / Honky-Tonk Man style heel than Flair and that sort of thing was going to get him heat.

 

I don't have a problem with this structure when it's something like Hogan vs. Bockwinkel where the heel has been ducking the babyface for months and months and the face is being carried by sheer anger and adrenaline.

 

Here, things are different. The context of this match was a one-off special title vs title match. Backlund gives Race nothing.

 

On the next episode of Titans we have probably most heated debate on any podcast I can think of (that I've been on or indeed heard) about the logic and psychology of Race vs. Backlund. I still don't buy the counter arguments provided by Pete and Johnny. I'll go as far as to say that they [the counter arguments] are moronic, and that they bury the New York crowd as being basically morons. I'll leave something for the show though -- I've never been as fired up as I was there.

 

This match highlights a lot of my problems with Backlund being selfish as a worker: he's too dominant, he doesn't sell, he doesn't show vulnerability, and he doesn't vary his offense enough. It also highlights a lot of my problems with the way Race sometimes worked from underneath as basically a TOTAL bitch, to the point where you are wondering why the guy is champ. I'd argue that Flair never does that, even in matches where he's giving the challenger 75%+ of the offense.

 

The match is on dailymotion by the way:

 

http://www.dailymotion.com/video/xh60w1_bo...race-pt-1_sport

[shoe]

The basic wrestling concept is making the hometown boy who has to wrestle in MSG next month look strong. I'm not a fan of the match , but understand the concept behind it.